I paid the $10 for the 5 day catch challenge earlier this year. I have been unwell most of this year so haven't trained much. When I was doing the 5 day catch challenge I did it over a two week period. I wasn't doing any other training and when I went to the pool I was only doing the drills and some easy 100s. At the end of each swim I would do 2x100m flat out with plenty of rest. Before I started the 5 day catch challenge, the fastest I could manage was 1.30. By the end of it I swam 1.19.

I took a 2 month break from training after the 5 day catch challenge as I wasn't getting better. I am now back training and slowly building back up. I am not swimming well but feel like I haven't degraded as far as I should have. I did 20x100m off 2mins yesterday and average rep was 1.38.

Day 1 & 2 of the catch challenge are a bit meh but I committed to doing the exercises.

All anecdotal obviously but I really believe spending the $10 was a great investment for me. I possibly would do some of their other stuff in the future if I but I can't get video recordings in my local pool.

the video are well done and there is a lot of detail explanation so it can be fun and exciting. that count for something. But improving in the water will come with volume x frequency. it s a blue color sport, the best option is to join a group, consistancy and if you are swimming alone.... then video might be something you can fall back on.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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I am a member, but I probably won't renew as I don't make enough use of it.
The drill videos are good, but the best thing is being able to send in a video for analysis once a month.

Thank you guys. I’ve always hated the notion of ‘just keep swimming’.. To me that means just keep ingraining that crappy technique.

Any other programs I should look into? Looks like Effortless is worth the $

The reality of swimming is, i could get a athelte in the water swimming 5-7 times a week and never providing them a single feedback other then giving them workout and there technic would improve just from the fact of been expose to swimming, building fitness and there body slowly figuring out some of the element to become more efficent. is this the optimal way to go?.... NO. but every time your in the pool.... your doing step forward and volume is the number one element that will make you a stronger swimmer.

Most triathlete will be in the water twice...or perhaps 3 times a week. that is limited and any video, program or group that can get you excited and contribute to get you in the pool more often will be a big win. it s not a sexy answer but it s the true. But yes, swimming with a clear goal and purpose make it fun...and fun= getting faster...

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

The fun part is required for long term progress. A good master's coach will include that when and where possible.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I did EF a while ago and I liked it, but he puts so much of it on his youtube channel. The training programs back then were good but not great.

I personally really like swim smooth. Great mix of technique/drills and training programs. There's a wide variety of training programs. I think it is more engaging.

I've just been on the swim smooth website. I'm confused, there doesn't seem to be an online training programme - or is the "The Guru" thing? It's not very clear.

yeah it's the guru (http://www.swimsmooth.guru)

I've been a member now for a couple years. I started with the 5-day catch challenge. I made a lot of progress using that, that I actually reached out to Brenton and chatted with him before starting. I ended up doing the full year membership. I get to send unlimited videos and I have unlimited access to chat. Last year, I didn't do as many videos. I'd look at them and I'd just say "oh he's gonna say I'm doing this" and I wouldn't send it in. Which was stupid because this is what I was paying for. After getting my new bike a proper "Jim Manton" fit, I decided I needed to get back to submitting videos because, I'm paying for it.. Of course he came back with something that I wasn't seeing in my stroke. Now after making those little changes and a month between races, I went from being back 60s from a teammate at the 1st race to actually beating them out of the water in the 2nd race. Just like anything.. You get out of it what you put into it.

I actually strongly suspect the highest yield of technique improvement for the $ is buying yourself a Gopro or similar sports camera with the GoPro suction cup (to attach to the tile wall of the pool, trust me, get the GoPro brand for this, not at knockoff!) and videoing yourself swim.

It does take a little work to both setup and download/review your videos, but at least you'll really know and see where you are going wrong, rather than doing drills in hopes of improving something. You almost certainly won't need to be a swim expert to see the major problems as a non-FOP swimmer, but even if you needed help, you'll get a lot of input by just posting a video or even some stills here. (Probably TOO much input...)

It's a trite saying, but it was def true in my case - I didn't look anything like what I felt/though I was doing. Not horrible, but definitely nowhere near as smooth and elegant as all those youtubers. I have developed newfound respect for youtube-video-swimmers, as they invariably are still a lot better than mine, despite how hard I work at swimming. (Ok, I'm at least better than some of the stroke-correction videos of slower folks in the water.)

You have a full year membership of which membership?

The $79 for the year or the $199/month?

This is an interesting statement. I gotta say that in my 30+ years in the water, first as a beginner and then advanced swimmer who has observed and coached triathletes over most of that period, my experience is completely different.

I have come across many, many quite experienced athletes who were swimming at fairly high yardages (over 3000 yd per swim) with terrible technique and terrible swimming speed (even though they were very fast cyclists and fast runners).

Yes, volume is important. But technique is also very, very important. A high yardage swimmer with bad technique is swimming with a huge parachute that they can't get rid of and that is slowing them down continuously.

The idea that "just swimming lots" will alone, for an adult swimmer, improve one's technique is not supported by the evidence.

Greg @ dsw

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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This is a hundred percent true. But, on the other hand, you gotta get expert technique help and then practice practice practice. And then evaluate your technique again. And then practice more. Rinse. Repeat.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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you are missing the point of the post..... make swimming fun...get a athlete in the water one more time in the week vs there normal frequncy and you will have much better chance that this person will improve over time.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Totally agree with you here.

But this is quite different from what you said in your other post.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

that would help if you quoted the full reply... ;)

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Sorry, disagree with you there. They would get faster and more efficient to an extent, but nowhere near as much as you would expect if they doubled or tripled their volume. A typical triathlete would swim 3 x 3km per week. Say they are swimming 100m on a 1.55 time cycle coming in on 1.45 and they double or triple their swim volume. if their technique is average, they may only drop 5s per 100. So an improvement of 1min.30 for a 70.3, swimming 7 hours a week. Not a great return.

Some aspects of freestyle are just not intuitive and don't feel natural and as such someone is not going to correct themselves without some form of coaching. You get someone who drops their elbow and has a poor catch and pull and try and get them to swim with a high elbow, it will feel completely unnatural and (initially) very inefficient. A lot of swimmers regress, because they actually can go slowly at first. No way someone is going to figure this out on their own. Again with kicking, people scissor kick as they are unbalanced (due to a crossover), if they tried fixing the scissor kick it would feel unstable because the crossover isn't fixed.

This is a picture my mate sent me of his daughter who has been having terrible shoulder problems. I don't need to explain what the problem is. And believe it or not she's a national swimmer.

I can't recommend this program enough.

I did the 5-day catch challenge and dropped my repeatable 100/yd (10x100 20SR) from 1:50 to 1:35. Also broke 1:25 for the first time.

I'm in week 3 of the 8-week program.

FindInFreestyle on this board has a program that I'll be jumping on next. I've used a few of his drills as well.

Not to derail the thread, but you cannot be more right.

I was a 3:10-3:15 marathoner who did a 1:40IM swim after a year of 3-4 times a week of 3500-5000 yard sessions. If you suck at swimming, you can get efficient at sucking, but you're never going to get fast.

If you asked me to save my life would I rather have to swim 10 miles or swim a 1:20 100 yards from a push, I'd choose the 10 miles.

 

Sorry, disagree with you there. They would get faster and more efficient to an extent,[/quote]
I dont see you disagreeing here, Get in the water, increase your training load and for most triathlete that are already on very limited volume to start with....some improvement in fitness and technic will happen naturally from been expose to the sport. Is that optimal to go with no feedback, absolutly not, is the improvement as big as we should expect; well, it depend of your expectations..


It s interesting that when i was 21 year old, Chris Mcormack told me, swim 40km a week for 6 months and you will be set for life as a professional in triathlon. He simply said....doesnt matter what you do...but put the time and you will see the change. I did it and very much went from a slower adult onset swimmer to a front pack in every pro field. The post note.... it take a long time to get your body ready to take on 40km/week... (years)

In my time with the brett sutton crew, it was also very much the same....brett was taking those athletes and putting them through a solid load week after week and transforming many of the girls into ''wind mill'' It was good enough for those athletes to get in a spot where while not with the front group...there where in striking distance to win the race. There was very little technical focus with him and it was sure a high volume approach.

point been.... you are a age group athlete...you want to improve your swimming, find a good group/coach, a fun program, get in the water more often, learn to be obsess about it...to love it..to be on a quest, it will be a lot of hard work but you will improve.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I dont see you disagreeing here, Get in the water, increase your training load and for most triathlete that are already on very limited volume to start with....some improvement in fitness and technic will happen naturally from been expose to the sport. Is that optimal to go with no feedback, absolutly not, is the improvement as big as we should expect; well, it depend of your expectations..


It s interesting that when i was 21 year old, Chris Mcormack told me, swim 40km a week for 6 months and you will be set for life as a professional in triathlon. He simply said....doesnt matter what you do...but put the time and you will see the change. I did it and very much went from a slower adult onset swimmer to a front pack in every pro field. The post note.... it take a long time to get your body ready to take on 40km/week... (years)

In my time with the brett sutton crew, it was also very much the same....brett was taking those athletes and putting them through a solid load week after week and transforming many of the girls into ''wind mill'' It was good enough for those athletes to get in a spot where while not with the front group...there where in striking distance to win the race. There was very little technical focus with him and it was sure a high volume approach.

point been.... you are a age group athlete...you want to improve your swimming, find a good group/coach, a fun program, get in the water more often, learn to be obsess about it...to love it..to be on a quest, it will be a lot of hard work but you will improve.[/quote]
Well yeah I agree with that - "Chris Mcormack told me, swim 40km a week for 6 months and you will be set for life", pretty much echoes what I've said in a few threads. Sacrifice swim and run and swim lots, once you've got an OK technique you'll be a FOP for life. At least in triathlon.

I did the 5 Day Catch just recently. I thought it was worth it. I used to be front of the middle of the pack, but I took about 5 years away from tri. I bike and ran. Swimming--not so much over that time. I've been swimming consistently for the past 8 months but had really plateaued over the past few months. After doing the drills for a few weeks, I took about 9 seconds off my 100 yard pace over a 1000 yard interval (which was at an easier level than my previous but slower one).

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Human Person

I’ve done the 5 day challenge and the membership.

It was a game changer for me, I used to swim by myself in the first 1,5 year of triathlon and his program helped a lot to learn the basics and to have an ok technique (you can see more here https://www.instagram.com/...hid=Y2IzZGU1MTFhOQ==)

My best time was a 32 minute swim in a 70.3 during this period (the course was short and heavily assisted by current)

After that I moved from my city and could swim with my triathlon club, then my focus changed entirely. My coach makes us do a lot of volume (at least 3,5 km each session) and with a lot of intervals. I’ve been swimming at least 4 times a week.

Before this I was middle of the pack and after moving with the club I’m front pack now. My last 70.3 I did 29 minutes (and was not feeling well that day) and last week we did a 400 mts swim test where I finished with 5:43 (1:26 average).

The technique I learned with effortless swimming was essential in the beginning but I only saw real gains after joining the club.