Yes, got a free pair at a race a few weeks ago... would not have spent the money BUT I actually like them! Had the original Clifton, not a fan. The Tracer for me feels like a good long run to tempo shoe. I like the lower profile compared to the Clifton, feels much less "squishy" and not so narrow at the toe box. I don't think I would personally race in them, but I DO enjoy running them.

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

Appreciate the response especially with the comparisons between those other shoes I have worn. Going to check them out tonight!

I just bought and returned a pair of Clifton 2s too. They felt great when I was testing them out at the store, but after running a couple miles in them I developed a large blister due to the insole rubbing near my arch. When I took them back, they said the Hokas are not forgiving for those who have wider feet, and I'm right on the boarder of needing wide shoes. Therefore, if you have wider feet, you might want to go with something else or wait for the new shoe to come out in July. I've heard that they're supposed to be wider.

I was a devote Hoka wearer but they've actually digressed year over year, it's really sad. The original Bondi, and Tarmac had a nice toe box but every year since they've gotten smaller. Why make the toe box smaller? It makes no sense, suggest trying the NB, or Nike Pegasus, Nike RN Distance.

hoka must be finally listening as the bondi 4 now comes in a wide

Since you know a lot about the shoes I run in, I got a question for you. The Green Silence drop is 10.4, ST Racer is 14.2, and I also run in the Adidas Mana which is 11. Those are my main shoes I rotate through, and have used Newton Isaacs for a while, Vibrams for shorter runs, and NB Minimus trail shoes. What I used to do is do my morning 5 milers with the Mana and where either the GS or ST when I ran longer. I just picked up the Claytons which is 4mm drop but has more cushion. Ran this morning(5 miles) and it felt good so far. It seems like the Hoka's put more stress on my quads where as my rotational shoes put more on my calves. I'm not in pain or anything, but just something I noticed from the first run. It could be me just adjusting to them? My question is what can I expect from going from >10mm drop to 4mm drop, but with more cushioning in the Hokas?

Or, y'know, volume finally reached a point where it made sense to do so without impacting the availability in the remainder of the product line. They had enough issues just keeping core sizes in stock through mid-2014.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

The Constant 2 is my full time trainer, I need shoes with a bit of support. It allowed me to finally consistently follow the BarryP plan (running 6x week) without feeling beat up. So I'm a big fan. They're not cheap, but I'm over 400 miles on them and they are still holding strong.

With all shoes we need to look at the heel to toe offset and the total stack height (volume) of the midsole. To go further we want to look at the flexibility in the forefoot too. Your "racing" shoes have similar offset, similar volume and similar forefoot flex. Your Hoka Clayton has less offset, a substantial more volume and no flex (using a rocker instead) in the forefoot. The midsole volume and rocker negate any difference in the offset. We have seen this for years now. A runner going from a 10mm offset to a 4mm offset low volume shoe like the Kinvara will feel the difference especially in the calf. That same runner puts on a Clifton and they won't have calf strain. The difference is in the volume and the rocker.
So to answer your question you won't feel anything from the change in drop what you will feel and are feeling is the difference in the other two. I'm guessing that you have changed your gait slightly which is making you feel it in your quads. You'd have to change your gait slightly, you've been running on bacon strips and now you have a great deal (Light as it may be) under your foot. The other change talked about earlier in this thread is the change in softness. Your bacon strip shoes are not soft they really let you feel the road. The Clayton although firmer than other Hoka is soft to you. For your long runs that may feel really good. You may also be bleeding energy which can be felt until it becomes normal. The key to this is that you know this is happening and are ok with it and know to adjust for race day.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

I am noticing a lot of former/current Saucony Guide users. What I find interesting is that none of those listing Guides use the Constant/Conquest ("support" Hokas). As I understand, the Guides provide a low-medium level of support/motion control. I also wear the Guides but want to change them out in favor of a shoe that has a straighter last.

So, why are the Guide users not going to an equivalent Hoka in terms of the support?

I'm also looking into some hokas.. I'm currently on Zoot Lagunas, and before that Zoot TT. About 140lbs.

I like to train and race in the same shoes.. So Clifton or clayton should do fine based on my weight? The zoots normally last me 450 miles. Or should I go with a Bond 4 to be safe?

Let's include pronation as a variable. What trainer for 185lbs and a tendency to pronate? Is that who the Conquest is for? What about the Infinite?

Scott

Interested what you mean by "bleeding energy" in the context of an IM marathon where energy conservation is key. Do you think feeling the road and engaging muscles versus negating their use is more important over the long haul ?

Good question! If I understand correctly, Hoka offers two "stability" builds:

Conquest; responsive ride (similar to "responsive" but neutral Odyssey, Clayton, Tracer)
Infinite: plush ride (similar to "plush" but neutral Clifton, Bondi, Stinson)

Any comments on the Conquest and Infinite?

Scott

What was the Replacement for the Stintson Lites??

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Trying since 81
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Hi tamiii,

like your post.

All about fashion and whats being advertised right now....
Not all of it, but most. Ultra cushioned shoes can't make up for adaption and training issues.

Old skool, built up and run with something that protects your feet from stones and pebbles.

Seriously, we know it is mostly marketing and hype.

Fun to watch the lemmings scramble, though.

Until a lingering injury rears its ugly head and no amount of adaptation and training or any other shoe or doctor can fix it.


That's great that works for you. Worked for me for years and years until it didn't.


Saying that doesn't make it true. I've been running in Hokas for about five years now. I wasn't the earliest adaptor but I was pretty early. Long before their deal with Ironman, and long before 90% of the people now wearing Hokas were wearing Hokas. There was no marketing and hype. They were a shoe that almost instantly fixed an 18 month long injury issue. A goofy looking $150 shoe fixed what an ortho doc couldn't fix, what any other shoe couldn't fix, what five months of PT couldn't fix, etc.

I would not be running today if it weren't for Hokas. I was "this" close to making the decision to stop running and Hokas were my last ditch effort. Nearly five years injury free without so much as even a small problem.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

What this guy said! without Hokas I wouldn't be running at all... I've tried other shoes in between as well to try and return to a "normal" shoe, nothing has worked so I go back to Hokas and can run pain free again.

I would much rather be abl eo t head to my local running store and pick up a pair of NB like I used to but I have to face facts, that's not possible for me anymore... but at least I'm running and competing in 70.3 now, rather that than stuck on the couch.

I'm with you on this one. I bought a pair of Bondis in 2011 after Dan's original article on them. Loved the shoes and probably did anywhere from 40-60% of my mileage in Hokas. I think I have owned seven pair of Hoka brand shoes, however, each year they changed them a little more and made them a little less nice. The last purchase, a pair of $150+ Bondis, immediately gave me blisters because of the size of the toe box. At that point I went from a devoted user to a former wearer of the shoes. Too many other options out there now.

I guess I might try the Claytons but the sour taste from the last pair has me not so enthusiastic.

FWIW, shoe companies are pricing me out of new shoes. I have about decided that my ceiling for running shoes is $100. That means I am buying last years models from discount sellers. I just can't justify the astronomical prices they are asking for shoes. There are several shoes that I would like to try but I'll have to wait until they are a year or more old to get them on my feet.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

I got 500 miles out of my Bondi 3's which is a lot more mileage than any other shoe I've had so the price ended up evening out for me.

I buy clearance pairs of old models of Mizuno Wave Riders (~$60 bucks each pair) and routinely get 800-1000 miles out of them. Injury free for years. n = 1 of course. If Hokas work for somebody and allow them to run, that's great. I am not convinced there is a true causal relationship, but who knows. Plus, placebo effect.

I see now Hoka has introduced 2 x more stability/motion control shoes - Arahi and Gaviota. There are no results on the search for these, so either no one is using them or no one is talking about them. Anyone have thoughts a) in general and b) within the context of Homa stability shoes vs Guides?

Bryan,

I agree with this point on the Claytons, nice write up!

I ran in Kinvara's and Newton Fate's in the past with IM marathon's in the 3:30's and standalone marathon just under 3 hours. I went to the Clayton's this year since I'm a fan of a firm forefoot. Too squishy, like Adidas Boost), and I think I'm losing too much road feel and "bleeding energy" (love this term). I thought the Clayton's would be too narrow, but the rocker feels good once you are running. The toe box is pretty big, but feels fine once you are running. Now I just do almost all my runs in the Clayton sprinkled with some Kinvara. Look forward to try the Clayton 2.

Good luck!