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Looking at Hokas
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Currently running in the Saucony Guide 9 and the Fastwitch 7. Would you recommend Hoka?

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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a few pairs and generally like them. They take getting used to. They're worth a try. You may end up loving them. I still have some but often run in new balance 890v4 which give me a better feel for the ground.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I'd take a look at the Clifton 3s being released beginning of July. Go for a pair at runningwarehouse or REi as they have easy returns if you decide they are not for you.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Currently running in the Saucony Guide 9 and the Fastwitch 7. Would you recommend Hoka?

Yes but not as a "sole" shoe. I have been in my Hokas for the past two days and they are fantastic shoes - for a specific purpose. I am certainly no expert but here's my take based on the last 4 years:

Level 0 = Barefoot (on track or grass). Builds strength, full range of movement etc.
Level 1 = Merrell Road Glove. As above, most demanding on lower legs for hard surfaces, but tops for posture and feel.
Level 2 = Pick any normal shoe, stability shoes are most forgiving for me.
Level 3 = Hokas - Like an outdoor treadmill. Easy running, no road shock, great for recovery runs and lower leg conservation. Also for racing. Less pain, more speed?

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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I love my HOO's. I'm pretty sensitive to big changes I'm heel to toe drop. I run in multiple pairs of shoes but no more than 2mm difference. I don't know how you switch between the guide and fastwitch. If you can handle the fastwitch, you can handle HOO's. They are supremely cushioned and have a super quick ride. Definitely more narrow than Saucony but I've gotten used to them.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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I like this summary.
When I'm doing long stuff I use some Cliftons. I can run the next day when I use them.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Similar in some ways to me - I'd been using Newton Motion and Distance S for 8 years now with no issues, however my legs have recently been a little shot afterwards and I fancied seeing what Hokas were like but I was put off initially by the 'size' of them.

Then they released the Clayton which I tried and I have to say they are great, as I mid foot striker I'm not too worried about stability issues and these are great for me to on long runs and tempo sets that I don't want to beat my legs up too much.

I still use my Distance to race in up to 70.3 but for IM I'd now use my Claytons (plus they don't look too BIG).

I will however give the other shoes in their range a go when I come from injury (broken back due to a bike crash) simply because of the additional cushioning.

Good luck
Last edited by: iron snorks: Jun 6, 16 23:58
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Give the Clayton a try. Just over 7 ounces with ample cushioning for long runs. I have been running in the Bondi for a year or so due to lower back issues. I don't like the "bulky" feel of the Bondi but I do like the fact that they are keeping me in the game. The Clayton seems to do the same without the bulky feel of the Bondi.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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bryan,

i also suggest checking out a pair of topos. specifically the magnifly's or the ultraflys if you want something more light weight. if you want more info, you can send me a PM (discount code in sig: i get ZERO from your purchase).

bests,

john
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Re: Looking at Hokas [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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I couldn't agree anymore (Disclaimer another non expert here) I originally bought my first Hokas when i was putting in 80+ mile weeks to save my sore feet from the pavement and now use them in a rotational basis and for long runs. Hokas are also surprisingly light.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I was pretty much rotating through the Mirage and Fastwitch as my go-to shoes.

Switched over to the Bondi for a while, now use the Conquest for meat-and-potatoes mileage, as well as long-course racing. Bondi was a little too marshmallow for my taste, like the rMAT in the Conquest for a slightly firmer ride. Also really like the Clifton as a jack-of-all-trades.

I find that the way the foot sits "in" a pair of Hokas, versus "on top of" in most other footwear, provides a good level of structure that allows me to get away with a truly neutral shoe compared to the light posting I typically wear from other manufacturers. Surprisingly, New Balance has also done this well with their new 1080v6.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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after reading the replies on this thread, i remain surprised by the footwear choices of triathletes. the one thing i find really interesting is the tendency for triathletes to move right to the racing shoe, or very lightweight trainer, as their training shoe.

i would've thought that the bondi, or maybe the vanquish II, is light enough for training. previously it would've been the bondi for training, the clifton for racing. now i think this is moving to the vanquish II for training, the clayton for racing. further, it seems that the tracer is outselling the clayton at ironman expos.

i think the tracer is too light for most triathletes. i certainly don't think the clayton is a training shoe, nor really the clifton except for those quite light. but i think that's one thing you can say about a lot of triathletes: they do like them some lightweight shoes for training.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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They may work for some, but I've given up on Hoka. Their lineup has been inconsistent, as has their quality. I can't afford to keep buying and then trying to return their shoes.

I switched to Hoka's back in ~2012 timeframe and loved the results. Unfortunately, I've had a hard time with their shoes in recent years. I was willing to work through the quality issues I had on a couple pair, but my two most recent attempts (Clifton 2 & Clayton) with their shoes have really been hard on my feet. They felt great at the run store and the first few hundred yards of a run, but by mile 3-4 into any run, my feet would be a mess.



-Andrew
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Re: Looking at Hokas [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I know your a proponent of Hokas.

Which would you suggest for training and racing for a normal MOPer?
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Re: Looking at Hokas [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I think the Clifton is enough shoe for a lot of people who were raised on a diet of Kinvaras/Brooks PureFlows, etc. HOO still positions it as a lightweight trainer / performance trainer, which I think is the right category; some people will never make it as more than just a racing shoe, others can do all of their mileage in it. The Asics DS Trainer comes to mind.

I raced in the Bondi for a little while, too. But that was before there were a bunch more models in the line.

I do think, though, that triathletes are more apt to "undershoe" versus "overshoe." Perhaps the weight and aero weenie-ness from the cycling component of the race is dictating footwear selection?

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Looking at Hokas [Snowvols] [ In reply to ]
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training: vanquish 2 or Bondi 4.

racing: clifton or clayton.

depends on your weight.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Looking at Hokas [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
training: vanquish 2 or Bondi 4.

racing: clifton or clayton.

depends on your weight.
I have Cliftons (and Huakas) and love them both. I just got back into a little running after 20 year layoff though. I wish there were shoes like this available back then when I was a kid. Why are the Vanquish and Bondi better for ''training''? The Clifton's are like running on clouds to me
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Re: Looking at Hokas [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]
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"Why are the Vanquish and Bondi better for ''training''? The Clifton's are like running on clouds to me"

again, it depends on weight. cliftons are going to be like clouds if you're 145, but if you're a bit of an overpronater and you're 175 the bondi and vanquish 2 will last you longer, they'll hold their structure better, and you'll still feel like you're running on clouds.

some of it is weight, some of it is the soundness of your footfall. some folks will train well on cliftons. that's too light a shoe for me. the clifton is actually a very good racing flat for me.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Looking at Hokas [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm 175 and I train in Clifton (hoarding Clifton 1, because 2 is too narrow for me). Perfect shoe for me. Like walking on clouds. :) But yes they don't last long. 400 miles and they are completely shot.

I ran in Vanquish 2 for a week. While the heel to toe drop is supposed to be the same as Clifton, felt like I was running in high heels. Weird, no? Also, an old injury (pain where ITB connects with the glutes) came back probably because of the heel. Plus Vanquish 2 was firmer. So I returned them.

Bondis felt like bricks. That was Bondi 2 I think. Have not tried 4. I should.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I can't say enough about Hokas! My feet are about a full size difference (yes, not 1/2 size, full size). Somehow the Cliftons were just not able to accommodate the size difference, and my smaller foot was a little too roomy for me. Aside from that, it is a great lightweight shoe.

If you are running for distance, I say you gotta try the Conquest. It's a heavier shoe, and at first feels like you are running in sand, but I feel absolutely bulletproof in them-no plantar fasciitis, no cramming of my toes. Great shoe. Try it.
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I used to be a Saucony GUIDE user for years until version 7 or so came out with a stupidly tight toe box. I literally bled through them in my first marathon. Discovered Bondi 3 and fell in love with the shoe. I can run with 0 issues in them. I bought like 6 pairs on the closeout at REI and now have 2 left to go through. Looking at Clayton and maybe Clifton too once I get back to a period of pure running next year.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Looking at Hokas [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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training: vanquish 2 or Bondi 4.
racing: clifton or clayton.
depends on your weight.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
-------------------------
No love for the STINSON?


Train safe & smart
Bob

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Re: Looking at Hokas [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Where does the Constant 2 fall?
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Re: Looking at Hokas [ffmedic84] [ In reply to ]
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i'm not enough familiar with the constant to render an opinion.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Looking at Hokas [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Hoka remains to me the most horrible pair of shoes (aesthetically) ever brought to earth. Everybody is wearing them since their partnership with Ironman. Like everybody used to swear by Newton a few years ago. Next year if Vans is sponsoring Ironman we'll all be racing in skateboarding shoes. And the year after it will be Vibram and we'll go back to fiverfingers - because you know, running barefoot is good for you.

(Yes I'm exaggerating on purpose)

I've got to say Hoka are extremely light and comfy. I see value in having extra cushioning for the second part of the marathon on an IM and will probably try them next season. Currently training and racing on adidas glide boost.
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