1. you shoulda asked the official. dumb of you not to.
2. that said, the official probably shouldn't have given you a penalty.
3. the official will probably get a talking to about this, because usat has gotten a bad rap about giving out penalties that drive people from the sport. this new thinking has largely been driven by the GTG "moment". as a result officials almost never call the dismount line infraction any longer, neither do they call handlebar plug other non-impactful penalties nearly as often as they used to.
4. usat should, as part of its sanctioning process, recommend a specific width given each competitor in the transition area. along with not enough porta-potties, this is one my pet peeves of RDs, not enough room to rack your stuff.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thanks for your opinion Slowman.

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
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But Dan, until rules changes, one can decide if they want to do a USAT race. Rules are very clear.

How can you say the official should not have given a penalty? He was in the wrong spot. 7.2 is very clear as to the penalty. If you say this, then I say my opinion is I should be able to draft. We either have rules that are enforced, or end up with an event thats a joke, and folks get hurt.

I still cant believe how folks wine some much about the rules. I wonder how many ST's have the USAT rule book? I am looking at it right now and have read lots of it. So, if you dont like USAT rules, dont do the race. If you dont like WTC rules or costs, dont do the races. Again, why do so many folks wine? No one puts a gun to their heads and say do the race.

There has to be responsibilty put back into our society for folks actions.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

7.2 is not clear enough to cost someone a race victory over.

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
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No one was in Zach's space,

I think this quote by the rd puts it all on Zach. If there was room for his bike, but he just wanted more space than the other racers, that's not up to him to just do.

Well, let us know if you can convince USAT, and the RD since , oh well, why waste the energy.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I know of a few triathletes who've been penalized, for doing that with their bike numbers. It's pretty rare though.

I don't feel I deserve more space than anyone.....I don't feel better than anyone to do that.....It was cluttered when I got there in the morning...I was trying to be considerate and not move others things....there was a ton of space on the other part of the rack, so I just went out there....

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
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I love it. An 80-plus post thread and now the original post, as well as the other posts by the OP, have been deleted. Classic.

You are the poorest example of a "pro" I have seen to date. Follow the rules tool.

OK Dan...let's take it a little further then.

USAT, as part of its sanctioning process, should require every event to have a minimum of one USAT official on site.

you santion....you have a USAT representative there to make sure things get done according to the book. no official...no sanctioning. you don't like the book...don't sanction.

and when a penalized participant publicly rants about the official on site being fat...the resulting next penalty should be substantially more than a couple minutes.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

Jim, I really like your comment and idea. I am just getting tired of RD's using USAT as a marketing tool for their race, and then when I do them, no where do you see the USAT rules being enforced!!! I want honesty in advertising. Use USAT, pay to have at least one official, and let them decide how to enforce the rules. I did ask if they had one at Donner and all I got was blank stares. If an RD does not want to use USAT rules, like J&A, great, then get your insurance somewhere else, and give the racers in writing what ever rules this race is going to use. Seems to me that USAT has allowed sanctioning to become a marketing game, rather than having this mean soemthing, in some cases.

USAT folks, any comments? Just thinking out loud and collecting data. :o)

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

hahahaa you are ridiculous...you make it seem like I am in the NBA and I got caught with cocaine or something......settle down big fella....I just moved my bike over a little

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
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Zach, just wondering how old you are. I know it has taken me LOTS of years to try and be a little mellow and learn some tact.

(Still learning) :o)



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

ohhh so now H2O fun is giving BIGZACH a compliment.....hahaa...I turned 24 earlier this month....

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
Ruble Racing Events Midwest Triathlon Racing
Ruble Timing Midwest Event Timing

Jim & h20fun,

An RD can sanction a race but does not have to have an USAT Official unless he request one or several. Only Championship races are required to have Officials at the race. I am pretty sure on this.

Now, remember.........if an RD does not want to pay for the Officials to come in, we don't usually come in. Remember, this is not my full time job Officiating I do it volunatarily. I have a full plate and more and squeezing in a weekend job of Officiating takes away
from my family, 3 kids, house work, training, racing and oh, IM MOO.

Yep that race is going to put me in the hurt box.

And, we do not make a ton of $$$ Officiating, we do it for the love of the sport.

BamaIM

Zach,



Maybe you were being sarcastic, but I don't see any compliment there. As a matter of fact, he's kinda slammin' ya--calling you immature. You are coming off looking very bad here, childish. You deleted your posts, but still come back replying over and over. If you want my advice (and you may not), you should just let this whole thing go--the penalty and all these posts. Stop replying; hell, even stop reading them.

Spiridon,

I think he was complimenting me on not blowing up on JDAV for calling me a tool...instead I was tactful and mellow....right?? I have been getting hammered on this post, and really haven't went off on anyone (mellow)

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
Ruble Racing Events Midwest Triathlon Racing
Ruble Timing Midwest Event Timing

in my best valleygirl voice, "uh, ok, like whatever"

exactly my point. sanctioning RD's are allowed in the majority of events, to decide if they want USAT on site. i think this sets up everyone for a mishmash of enforcement policies and generally muddies the water about what should be happening and why.

set a time frame. all sanctioned events as of Jan 1, 2008 must have at least one official on site, potentially more, based on the event size and complexity. the official's fees are included in the sanctioning fee. this gives plenty of time for everyone to begin recruiting officials to fill the admittedly huge vacum and get them to training sessions, and/or to develop a mentoring program with the more experienced officials like you.

you don't think if it was an absolute set in stone requirement that it would not happen?

when i had Seahorse and it was in the MGPS...i lobbied for all events in the series to have an official on site or leave the series. it was required for all events to be sanctioned...why not do it properly and set the tone? this was late 90's. never happened. i think that was a big mistake.

i believe its time to make the move across the board. within another year, it may be the only way to distinguish USAT events from those moving outside the sanctioning umbrella.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

Having the Officials cost included in sanctioning would be nice......but I am willing to bet it will never happen,
but I have faith that USAT & staff are looking into a smoother process.

Also, this region is in need for more Officials, amny more Officials. With what we have now, the amounts of
sanctioned races, races that are requesting Officials, availability of Officials to work..........we, us 20 +/- are
all over the place. I, like the rest of you athletes make my schedule for the next year of racing in the fall on
where I want to race, then put my kids activiities and sports in that schedule and then any vacations. I would love
to know where I am going in December but that will not happen. I get emails from my Region Coordinator sometimes
a week out to Officiate, not his fault, he got his request in late because an RD got it in late. Well by that time
my weekend is booked with family etc. So the RD gets no Official and we get bashed for not being there.
That is where the hint comes in............we need more Officials.

What would very nice and a dream come true is, more Officials in the program. Then we have more to go around,
and you get your thoughts here put in place. Now we have more Officials to be at more races. We and the
Regional Coordinator for us, hate it whenwe have a request for Officials froman RD, but none are available.
Now, we look bad as if not wanting to help or be there for the RD and the athletes.

I got in the program for the our sport, and not to be a bulldog Official. I call it.........the love of the sport. I myself
been racing 15 years and love this sport and maybe too much. Ask the wife and anyone that knows me. I am
in deep, but I LOVE this sport and the athletes involved. So by Officiating and doing my other stuff for the sport,
I am trying everything I can to give back. As long as I am having fun, I am in the game.

Wait until IM MOO is over and if I make it.............I will be shocked. I have lost alot of weekends of training to
keep giving back to this sport we love to race, triathlon/duathlons.

Last thing here, man if we would get more people to become an Official it only makes it better for everyone &
raises the bar for our sport and hopefully this region............Mideast Region. So yes,I am asking and always
begging for athletes and individuals in this region and other regions...........we could use your help. No, I do not make
millions doing this, but I truely enjoy Officiating as much as racing.

BamaIM

i earlier messaged you at your "normal" email...and Richard to get the ball rolling.

hard to preach about it if i don't do it.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

Wanted to let everyone know that I thought the officials did a good job at our race this weekend. The penalty with Zach was tough. I consider both him and Blake friends...

I told our head official that I did not like the penalty at all, but I also told all four officials that I support their decisions. Officiating is a thankless job for the most part, but we need them out there. Thanks for your support. I would encourage anyone with issues regarding officials to become one yourself. I am willing to bet your outlook may change.

Thanks to the athletes as well, the officials said it was a pretty good day.

You were in a really tough position. Your friend broke a rule and got a penalty and it cost him a position and some prize money. The officials were just doing their job, I am sure that the penalty was given before the race (or during the swim), and the official had no way of knowing that it was going to affect the outcome of the race, he was just doing his job and applying the rules.

Now, should the penalty have been ignored? Why? Because it's a "silly" rule. No. People complain about MOP or BOP athletes getting penalties where isn't doesn't affect the results much if at all, so if any slack should be given, it should be there, not at the front. Zach is an experienced athlete who knows better. As far as I can tell, he moved his bike to a better spot, intentionally trying to gain an advantage over his competitors (aka CHEATING). Did he win (cross the line first) because of the advantage he gained? No. Would he have lost if he had made the effort to put his bike in the proper position? Again, no. So he cheated, got caught, received a penalty, and it cost a position and prize money, sounds like the rules working the way there are supposed to, penalizing those athletes who intentionally choose to cheat.