Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 9:24

Post #26 of 115 (3206 views)

HandHeartCrown wrote:

elf6c wrote:

Cause Zwift is popular, and Trainerroad isn't.

Really? Why do you say that? I use TR and I don't use Zwift. Same for my brother.

Also, based on the very active TrainerRoad.com thread, I suspect there's an active TR user community.

TR is obviously still very popular and I would argue a much more mature and stable product currently. I think Zwift has certainly improved and continues to. They have way more workouts than they used to and now plenty of events to participate in. I've had a couple cases where their servers got overloaded but I'm not sure that's a frequent thing. I dropped zwift though. It's fine. It's just not something that has drawn me in that much. I think TR is awesome and their plans are very well done. But I actually ended up buying PerfPro Studio. No subscription and it has all the workouts I need. I'm rarely on the trainer more than an hour so mentally I can stay engaged for an hour and don't need the immersive experience of Zwift.

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Jon] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 9:25

Post #27 of 115 (3203 views)

Jon wrote:

Gravel/adventure and indoor biking growing. Might I suggest adding more about fat biking too? Can do it on beach or snow or trails.

there are two themes at play that underpin everything that is growing in cycling:

1. the power of the enclave. the power that comes from people when you get them together. 20 people in a group is worth way more than 1 x 20.

2. freedom. the so-called gravel bike, the fat bike, the plus bike, and even (cringe) the ebike, give you freedom to roam parts of the earth that were previously closed to you. i still remember, very vividly, 54 years ago, the 7 year old me "borrowed" a friend's bike from outside his front door, very early morning, before anyone was up, and i went on my first bike ride. a schwinn stingray. i didn't own a bike. i couldn't ride a bike. my father tried to teach me. i couldn't get the hang of it. but, suddenly, there i was. riding. it was one of the great thrills of my life. that ride, that might have taken all of 3 minutes. obviously i've still not fully "recovered" from that day.

that ride will thrilling because it opened up a world of possibilities to me. the parts of this industry that are not growing are those that try to make it more expensive to do the same thing. the parts that are growing are the parts that allow you to do something new. this isn't an indictment on making better tech to perform a task. next year the gravel bike will incrementally change but won't grant you any more freedom. we'll all buy that tech because we're still very stoked with gravel riding. but the big leap in tech today is in things that grant new freedoms. fat biking included.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [M~] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 9:33

Post #28 of 115 (3175 views)

M~ wrote:

Slowman wrote:

M~ wrote:

Dan,

I am curious. Why do you think that indoor running will catch on like cycling has? Can it truly catch on without a device that is controlled by Zwift? That is primarily the reason why I don't Zwift run. Really, it is just me running on an animated road and doesn't really give me anything meaningful. I would rather watch netflix. Zwift cycling with my power meter is a different story though. Seems to me the running aspect has a LONG way to go before it is really meaningful. Thoughts?

i think you're missing the bigger message. here are some recent data points, if you want to call them that, popping up recently here on slowtwitch:

1. andy coggan's thread on the fact that it doesn't matter as much what workout schema you follow, just that you follow one;

2. my own ranking of the 8 important elements to athletic success, of which the least important is the particular training philosophy you follow, and that, aside from your own work ethic, the most important is your regular access to training partners.

3. my own nauseatingly repetitive insistence on the importance of the enclave. the cohort of training partners you wake up knowing is there, ready to ride, ready to swim. the masters swim team. the group rides and runs.

what truly matters is not the detail. it's the enclave. when i ride at 4pm this afternoon with 90 or so slowtwitchers, they are my enclave. they are my training partners. i would perhaps not do that ride - or any ride - today were it not for the fact that there they are, they expect me, and not because it's me, but because we all expect each other. it'll be that same way in zwift running, or any platform that allows for the enclave.

i would also mention that the enclave can be larger yet because a group run or ride can be driven by common effort rather than common talent. 90 people can ride in the same pack because they're all riding at 70 percent (let us say) of their FTP, rather than all riding at 240 watts.

now, about the treadmill. yes, it is not controlled by zwift. and yet 2 years ago i saw a device by wahoo that hacked a treadmill, making that possible. but even then, it would only be a "smart" treadmill you could hack. i wonder how many zwifters are riding dumb trainers? because that's what zwift running is (without that hijack of the treadmill's motor). you're running with a footpod, and that footpod absolutely DOES reflect on the screen. you WILL either fall behind or surge ahead of REAL runners in your enclave, in your group run, whose avatars are on the screen.

the power is not in the tech. the power is in the enclave. the part of zwift that zwift thinks is REALLY important really ISN'T that important to ME. it's not the quality of the graphics. it's that every one of those cyclists - whether a high quality graphic representation or a stick figure - represents a REAL person doing a REAL thing. zwift is digital, virtual tech, but what it enables is a very human thing.

that's why zwift running is going to be big.

Thanks for taking the time to write that. As a "tech guy" in my job, I always tend to look at what I am interacting with instead of the human aspect.

i am the least tech savvy guy on slowtwitch. the last video game i played was pac man. zwift's tech, per se, means nothing to me as tech, per se.

here's the thing about guys like me, and nobody knows this except guys like me: guys in their 60s (and i don't imagine it's going to be any different if, god willing, i become a man in my 70s, 80s, 90s). we are, in our brains, no different than we were as teenagers. the same things motivate us. my first endurance sport enclave was my high school cross country team, as a 13 year old freshman. here it is, a half-century later, and zwift, trainerroad, the sufferfest, they all zap that same place on my brain stem.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 9:35

Post #29 of 115 (3171 views)

mickison wrote:

HandHeartCrown wrote:

elf6c wrote:

Cause Zwift is popular, and Trainerroad isn't.

Really? Why do you say that? I use TR and I don't use Zwift. Same for my brother.

Also, based on the very active TrainerRoad.com thread, I suspect there's an active TR user community.

TR is obviously still very popular and I would argue a much more mature and stable product currently. I think Zwift has certainly improved and continues to. They have way more workouts than they used to and now plenty of events to participate in. I've had a couple cases where their servers got overloaded but I'm not sure that's a frequent thing. I dropped zwift though. It's fine. It's just not something that has drawn me in that much. I think TR is awesome and their plans are very well done. But I actually ended up buying PerfPro Studio. No subscription and it has all the workouts I need. I'm rarely on the trainer more than an hour so mentally I can stay engaged for an hour and don't need the immersive experience of Zwift.

in all our polling TR has the largest slowtwitcher following of any online training/racing/riding platform.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 9:55

Post #30 of 115 (3120 views)

Monday was a snow day here and thus no school. So I had both boys all day again (my wife was gone Wednesday through Sunday) and I thus rode the Wahoo Kickr connected to Zwift for "a while" and one of the 6-year old twins joined me to check it out. Eventually the other came too. But Max stayed the full 1:40 next to me and was fully entertained by all the things he saw. Plus he enjoyed bringing me gels, turning on the fan and getting to give "Ride Ons" to folks. Both of them especially love the underwater clear tunnel, and that it rains and snows at times. :-)

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 9:57

Post #31 of 115 (3118 views)

Slowman wrote:

M~ wrote:

Slowman wrote:

M~ wrote:

Dan,

I am curious. Why do you think that indoor running will catch on like cycling has? Can it truly catch on without a device that is controlled by Zwift? That is primarily the reason why I don't Zwift run. Really, it is just me running on an animated road and doesn't really give me anything meaningful. I would rather watch netflix. Zwift cycling with my power meter is a different story though. Seems to me the running aspect has a LONG way to go before it is really meaningful. Thoughts?

i think you're missing the bigger message. here are some recent data points, if you want to call them that, popping up recently here on slowtwitch:

1. andy coggan's thread on the fact that it doesn't matter as much what workout schema you follow, just that you follow one;

2. my own ranking of the 8 important elements to athletic success, of which the least important is the particular training philosophy you follow, and that, aside from your own work ethic, the most important is your regular access to training partners.

3. my own nauseatingly repetitive insistence on the importance of the enclave. the cohort of training partners you wake up knowing is there, ready to ride, ready to swim. the masters swim team. the group rides and runs.

what truly matters is not the detail. it's the enclave. when i ride at 4pm this afternoon with 90 or so slowtwitchers, they are my enclave. they are my training partners. i would perhaps not do that ride - or any ride - today were it not for the fact that there they are, they expect me, and not because it's me, but because we all expect each other. it'll be that same way in zwift running, or any platform that allows for the enclave.

i would also mention that the enclave can be larger yet because a group run or ride can be driven by common effort rather than common talent. 90 people can ride in the same pack because they're all riding at 70 percent (let us say) of their FTP, rather than all riding at 240 watts.

now, about the treadmill. yes, it is not controlled by zwift. and yet 2 years ago i saw a device by wahoo that hacked a treadmill, making that possible. but even then, it would only be a "smart" treadmill you could hack. i wonder how many zwifters are riding dumb trainers? because that's what zwift running is (without that hijack of the treadmill's motor). you're running with a footpod, and that footpod absolutely DOES reflect on the screen. you WILL either fall behind or surge ahead of REAL runners in your enclave, in your group run, whose avatars are on the screen.

the power is not in the tech. the power is in the enclave. the part of zwift that zwift thinks is REALLY important really ISN'T that important to ME. it's not the quality of the graphics. it's that every one of those cyclists - whether a high quality graphic representation or a stick figure - represents a REAL person doing a REAL thing. zwift is digital, virtual tech, but what it enables is a very human thing.

that's why zwift running is going to be big.

Thanks for taking the time to write that. As a "tech guy" in my job, I always tend to look at what I am interacting with instead of the human aspect.

i am the least tech savvy guy on slowtwitch. the last video game i played was pac man. zwift's tech, per se, means nothing to me as tech, per se.

here's the thing about guys like me, and nobody knows this except guys like me: guys in their 60s (and i don't imagine it's going to be any different if, god willing, i become a man in my 70s, 80s, 90s). we are, in our brains, no different than we were as teenagers. the same things motivate us. my first endurance sport enclave was my high school cross country team, as a 13 year old freshman. here it is, a half-century later, and zwift, trainerroad, the sufferfest, they all zap that same place on my brain stem.

That makes sense and likely why it doesn't appeal to me per se. I use workouts as a way to get away from people in general. It's my recharge time, although the "group workout" electronically would still allow me to do this so perhaps it is worth looking at again. Now if only Slowtwitch had a discount code of some sort.... :)

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 10:03

Post #32 of 115 (3107 views)

Slowman wrote:

here's the thing about guys like me, and nobody knows this except guys like me: guys in their 60s (and i don't imagine it's going to be any different if, god willing, i become a man in my 70s, 80s, 90s). we are, in our brains, no different than we were as teenagers. the same things motivate us. my first endurance sport enclave was my high school cross country team, as a 13 year old freshman. here it is, a half-century later, and zwift, trainerroad, the sufferfest, they all zap that same place on my brain stem.

I'll be 59 in a couple of weeks. Like you my first endurance sports enclave was the HS XC team, although my friends and I explored our hood on bikes before that. I'm very excited about traveling south at the beginning of next month to ride bikes and run in the mountains of N. Georgia for a week with my training/racing buddies of 20+ years. I will race more than a dozen times outside this year. I, however, have zero desire to Zwift. OTOH, I really enjoy being part of the Slowtwitch online discussion enclave so I guess I need to try to understand. ;)

Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Mar 13, 18 10:08

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 10:11

Post #33 of 115 (3084 views)

Mark Lemmon wrote:

Slowman wrote:

here's the thing about guys like me, and nobody knows this except guys like me: guys in their 60s (and i don't imagine it's going to be any different if, god willing, i become a man in my 70s, 80s, 90s). we are, in our brains, no different than we were as teenagers. the same things motivate us. my first endurance sport enclave was my high school cross country team, as a 13 year old freshman. here it is, a half-century later, and zwift, trainerroad, the sufferfest, they all zap that same place on my brain stem.

I'll be 59 in a couple of weeks. Like you my first endurance sports enclave was the HS XC team, although my friends and I explored our hood on bikes before that. I'm very excited about traveling south at the beginning of next month to ride bikes in the mountains of N. Georgia with my training/racing buddies of 20+ years. I will race more than a dozen times outside this year. I, however, have zero desire to Zwift. OTOH, I really enjoy being part of the Slowtwitch online discussion enclave so I guess I need to try to understand. ;)

some of the very best riding i ever did was in north georgia (and west NC). i flew there with my bike, like 25 years ago or so, february, rained on my every day. i rode from town to town, not knowing where i would stay (but always finding a place). helen. franklin. hiawasse. brevard. murphy. i could live there quite easily.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [sullytriman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 10:16

Post #34 of 115 (3072 views)

I posted about this at the start of the year and never received a response, so I appreciate the clarity put forth in this thread.

I fully recognise that sponsors are required to run the site, but I stand by my point that, as a reader, it's nice to know when you're being sold-to and it doesn't always appear clear to me where that line is on Slowtwitch.

Last edited by: awenborn: Mar 13, 18 10:20

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 10:22

Post #35 of 115 (3056 views)

Mark Lemmon wrote:

Slowman wrote:

here's the thing about guys like me, and nobody knows this except guys like me: guys in their 60s (and i don't imagine it's going to be any different if, god willing, i become a man in my 70s, 80s, 90s). we are, in our brains, no different than we were as teenagers. the same things motivate us. my first endurance sport enclave was my high school cross country team, as a 13 year old freshman. here it is, a half-century later, and zwift, trainerroad, the sufferfest, they all zap that same place on my brain stem.

I'll be 59 in a couple of weeks. Like you my first endurance sports enclave was the HS XC team, although my friends and I explored our hood on bikes before that. I'm very excited about traveling south at the beginning of next month to ride bikes and run in the mountains of N. Georgia for a week with my training/racing buddies of 20+ years. I will race more than a dozen times outside this year. I, however, have zero desire to Zwift. OTOH, I really enjoy being part of the Slowtwitch online discussion enclave so I guess I need to try to understand. ;)

I'm with you Mark. Having been through college on a swimming scholarship and now 34 (35?) years in tri, I'm starting to realize the sport has left this old fart behind. I have trained with the weekday guys who's egos needed the weekly win in training "races" as they sacrificed the real races and decided long ago (with some GREAT coaching) to stay to my plan. It allowed for more success than this minimally talented guy deserved to achieve. The last few years seem to have shown me that our current day sport has become reliant on interactive (video type) gaming for fitness and bragging rights instead of pushing oneself to new levels in the solitude of your own suffering. Ego over solo effort and improvement. I love Trainer Road and have used it from their start, but to me that coincides with my year long plans instead of doing the workout the group inspires and chases for the weekly win. I'm fine with others that prefer that, and know the days of athletes like me are long gone. Some say for the better and that's fine, but I shed a tear..... I should at least be happy that people at least are not racing from their couch.

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 10:26

Post #36 of 115 (3045 views)

Yep, we stay in Helen. Don't know about living there but it is a fantastic place to train in the spring before most of the tourists arrive.

Gary, I'm with you, fellow old fart. Several of the strongest athletes I'll be training with in Georgia in a few weeks are Zwift enthusiasts, so I'll be witnessing the effectiveness of that tool soon. I'm guessing they'll enjoy riding up real hills with real people more than they have enjoyed Zwifting most of the winter, and I'll enjoy riding up much bigger hills with other people in warmer weather (I hope) than I have enjoyed riding outside during this Ohio winter. If they don't enjoy riding outside more than they enjoy Zwifting, then we are all in trouble...

Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Mar 13, 18 10:57

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 10:39

Post #37 of 115 (3017 views)

awenborn wrote:

I posted about this at the start of the year and never received a response, so I appreciate the clarity put forth in this thread.

I fully recognise that sponsors are required to run the site, but I stand by my point that, as a reader, it's nice to know when you're being sold-to and it doesn't always appear clear to me where that line is on Slowtwitch.

the line is, actually, a literal line. scroll down. it's right there. it's there for a purpose. you can always go there if you have any question about who financially supports your ability to read here. they are below that line.

as to your earlier thread, as i noted a few posts up we started a new section on slowtwitch about 3 months ago: INDOOR. you posted a screenshot of that section of slowtwitch. we kicked it off with trainer reviews, and with a 6-part series on how to zwift (because zwift is not a simple, straightforward platform). these were all written within a few days of each other.

if you look there today, 2 of the most recent 6 articles are about zwift: the article i wrote yesterday, and the announcement of the 2nd weekly slowtwitch zwift group event. the others are about wahoo, woodway, velotron, and the sufferfest, and 3 of those 4 are not slowtwitch partners.

i respect anyone's decision to look elsewhere for his information, if you find us dishonest content deliverers. just, here's a thought experiment. I'm writing about 6 products in my current series on tri bikes in the $2,500 to $3,000 range. of the 3 i've written about so far, can you pick the one that is a slowtwitch partner? based on the reviews?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 11:09

Post #38 of 115 (2973 views)

I'm with you as well... I prefer my PerfPro workout when I do train/ride inside.. not into Zwift and its platform.

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 11:32

Post #39 of 115 (2934 views)

Slowman wrote:

here's the thing about guys like me, and nobody knows this except guys like me: guys in their 60s (and i don't imagine it's going to be any different if, god willing, i become a man in my 70s, 80s, 90s). we are, in our brains, no different than we were as teenagers. the same things motivate us. my first endurance sport enclave was my high school cross country team, as a 13 year old freshman. here it is, a half-century later, and zwift, trainerroad, the sufferfest, they all zap that same place on my brain stem.

inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened - Terry Pratchett, in Moving Pictures

I prefer the version that goes, inside every old man is a boy wondering what the hell just happened.

ran in HS but my first enclave was university x-c, then a sequence of running clubs with the long Sunday run as motivation, reward, and socialization.
For a few years it was masters swim sessions. For the last several years, nothing.. tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [doug in co] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 11:48

Post #40 of 115 (2909 views)

doug in co wrote:

tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

me too. until i did it. here's what i was missing: i (like you) couldn't imagine my lizard brain getting tickled by anything new fangled. imagine a way to - and this is certainly a bad example - take a digital LSD trip. imagine all the good parts of that trip, and none of the bad parts. and none of the ill- or after-effects. now, it wouldn't be as good as some of the good parts of an actual trip. but let's say all the same brain stem ahhhhhs that you get from a tab of acid you get from a tab of... whatever.

so, my point here, is that i, also, have a lizard brain. whether zwift, TR, SF, or whatever, if i can mix neurological metaphors, these platforms hit my lizard brain g spot.

and, i've never actually taken LSD. but you get my point ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 12:01

Post #41 of 115 (2881 views)

In my racing circle, almost nobody uses TR and nobody talks or seems interested in it. A bunch of them are on Zwift, or just joined it or are interested in it.

Zwift isn't perfect (cough- cheating in races) but it really resonates with many people.

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [doug in co] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 12:05

Post #42 of 115 (2873 views)

tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

Agree with you Doug, but I say fortunately. We old guys had plenty of internal motivation and love the "being there" in a real scene. I love the battle of real sport and training to stay with what I have enjoyed....pushing myself. I usually do all my hard training solo, as it's what I need, not someone else dictating what that day brings. I have training plan and am usually quite anal about staying the course. But, I'm so old school....no headphones, no gas at the dentist...I like reality too much. I think they should randomly program in flats and crashes to Zwift! ;-)

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 12:16

Post #43 of 115 (2852 views)

ggeiger wrote:

tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

Agree with you Doug, but I say fortunately. We old guys had plenty of internal motivation and love the "being there" in a real scene. I love the battle of real sport and training to stay with what I have enjoyed....pushing myself. I usually do all my hard training solo, as it's what I need, not someone else dictating what that day brings. I have training plan and am usually quite anal about staying the course. But, I'm so old school....no headphones, no gas at the dentist...I like reality too much. I think they should randomly program in flats and crashes to Zwift! ;-)

whoa, cowboy. me too! i'm with you, bro! that's why i moved to where i moved to. and you will pry my pedals off my cold dead feet. er... shoes. whatever. and i mean the pedals on my ride-outdoors bike.

but, look, your buds are not always going to be there. don't be angry. don't be sad. don't sit crying over good rides you've had. there's a trainer right next to you. and it's just waiting for something to do.

so, if you can't ride with the ones you love...

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 12:39

Post #44 of 115 (2813 views)

I’ve been on zwift since it was in Beta and boy has it grown. You would maybe have 50-100 riders on the map when it first started, now you can’t find clear air lol.
The big thing I’ve noticed is how many friends on my strava feed have started using it. It started with about two of us who have been using it pretty much since it started. Then you get the questions from others about it, they end up on it and loving it. One big thing is people training before or after work when it’s dark and you can do perfect intervals on the platform while having something to look at.

My last 5 weeks training has been exclusively indoors, only outdoor ride was 20k tt, i write down my trainer road workout and then ride on zwift so i have something to look at and a simulation of what kind of speed i can expect in a race.

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 12:47

Post #45 of 115 (2798 views)

Slowman wrote:

ggeiger wrote:

tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

Agree with you Doug, but I say fortunately. We old guys had plenty of internal motivation and love the "being there" in a real scene. I love the battle of real sport and training to stay with what I have enjoyed....pushing myself. I usually do all my hard training solo, as it's what I need, not someone else dictating what that day brings. I have training plan and am usually quite anal about staying the course. But, I'm so old school....no headphones, no gas at the dentist...I like reality too much. I think they should randomly program in flats and crashes to Zwift! ;-)

whoa, cowboy. me too! i'm with you, bro! that's why i moved to where i moved to. and you will pry my pedals off my cold dead feet. er... shoes. whatever. and i mean the pedals on my ride-outdoors bike.

but, look, your buds are not always going to be there. don't be angry. don't be sad. don't sit crying over good rides you've had. there's a trainer right next to you. and it's just waiting for something to do.

so, if you can't ride with the ones you love...

Haha....saw him in concert in the old days tear gas and all.... Oh, I surely use my trainer between 6 and 8 hours per week. Just not that platform as this old school guy loves the suffering alone with little extra outside stimulation needed. Trainer Road is awesome for me as it models perfectly the workout I actually need, not what others dictate. Traveling twice the speed of sound, it's easy to get burned. Thats said, just keep moving.

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 12:51

Post #46 of 115 (2788 views)

ggeiger wrote:

Slowman wrote:

ggeiger wrote:

tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

Agree with you Doug, but I say fortunately. We old guys had plenty of internal motivation and love the "being there" in a real scene. I love the battle of real sport and training to stay with what I have enjoyed....pushing myself. I usually do all my hard training solo, as it's what I need, not someone else dictating what that day brings. I have training plan and am usually quite anal about staying the course. But, I'm so old school....no headphones, no gas at the dentist...I like reality too much. I think they should randomly program in flats and crashes to Zwift! ;-)

whoa, cowboy. me too! i'm with you, bro! that's why i moved to where i moved to. and you will pry my pedals off my cold dead feet. er... shoes. whatever. and i mean the pedals on my ride-outdoors bike.

but, look, your buds are not always going to be there. don't be angry. don't be sad. don't sit crying over good rides you've had. there's a trainer right next to you. and it's just waiting for something to do.

so, if you can't ride with the ones you love...

Haha....saw him in concert in the old days tear gas and all.... Oh, I surely use my trainer between 6 and 8 hours per week. Just not that platform as this old school guy loves the suffering alone with little extra outside stimulation needed. Trainer Road is awesome for me as it models perfectly the workout I actually need, not what others dictate. Traveling twice the speed of sound, it's easy to get burned. Thats said, just keep moving.

you said it, bra. i am older now. i have more than what i wanted. but i wish that i had started long before i did.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 13:00

Post #47 of 115 (2760 views)

Slowman wrote:

ggeiger wrote:

Slowman wrote:

ggeiger wrote:

tech-mediated subscription services aren't very appealing to my dinosaur/lizard brain unfortunately..

Agree with you Doug, but I say fortunately. We old guys had plenty of internal motivation and love the "being there" in a real scene. I love the battle of real sport and training to stay with what I have enjoyed....pushing myself. I usually do all my hard training solo, as it's what I need, not someone else dictating what that day brings. I have training plan and am usually quite anal about staying the course. But, I'm so old school....no headphones, no gas at the dentist...I like reality too much. I think they should randomly program in flats and crashes to Zwift! ;-)

whoa, cowboy. me too! i'm with you, bro! that's why i moved to where i moved to. and you will pry my pedals off my cold dead feet. er... shoes. whatever. and i mean the pedals on my ride-outdoors bike.

but, look, your buds are not always going to be there. don't be angry. don't be sad. don't sit crying over good rides you've had. there's a trainer right next to you. and it's just waiting for something to do.

so, if you can't ride with the ones you love...

Haha....saw him in concert in the old days tear gas and all.... Oh, I surely use my trainer between 6 and 8 hours per week. Just not that platform as this old school guy loves the suffering alone with little extra outside stimulation needed. Trainer Road is awesome for me as it models perfectly the workout I actually need, not what others dictate. Traveling twice the speed of sound, it's easy to get burned. Thats said, just keep moving.

you said it, bra. i am older now. i have more than what i wanted. but i wish that i had started long before i did.

Time we have wasted on the way
So much water moving underneath the bridge

Carry on....

Last edited by: ggeiger: Mar 13, 18 13:01

Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 14:23

Post #48 of 115 (2676 views)

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 15:44

Post #49 of 115 (2612 views)

Slowman wrote:

in all our polling TR has the largest slowtwitcher following of any online training/racing/riding platform.

For how much longer?

I used TR and really liked it. I was somewhat early beta on Zwift, maybe the second round of beta invites, and I haven't touched TR since. It's not that I don't like TR but at the end of the day I was just following a line. Very effective for a workout but that's all it's good for. There's no upside beyond a workout. That's great for those that just care about that and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think it's long for this world. I can't define what long is at the moment. Could be a year or it could be five years. IMO, Zwift or something like it is here for good. Something like TR isn't.

TR has an amazing library of workouts. Better than Zwift in that regard. But Zwift is better than TR in every other way imaginable. Graphics, social scene, races, competition, pro cycling/triathlon involvement, cultural buzz, etc... it's not even a point of debate. TR isn't even a blip on any of those radars. I create and use my own workouts so the library of workouts isn't a concern to me. Zwift's workout creator is far easier to use and navigate. YMMV.

I think there's been quite the shift to more indoor cycling over the last decade. Part new hardware tech like smart trainers, part new software tech like Zwift and TR, and part increasing apprehension to riding outdoors. It's obvious to me that following a line on a bar graph isn't the future when it comes to indoor cycling's increased footprint. I get something like Zwift with the video game graphics and social aspects isn't everyone's cup of tea but that's an increasingly minority viewpoint and opinion.

I just don't know what TR can do to stay competitive in this market. Their product basically hasn't changed much from day one, from a user's perspective at least, while Zwift has made quantum leaps since it was introduced.

I'm not bashing TR as the product is excellent for what it is.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Why is Slowtwitch promoting Zwift? [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 18 17:07

Post #50 of 115 (2554 views)

windschatten wrote:

Hey, count me in the old fart group too.

but do you have a CSN lyric to share?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

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