Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD)

Feb 6, 18 5:26

Post #1 of 72 (4687 views)

http://www.bikeradar.com/...tipping-point-51685/

Shimano: "We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics. There is a good chance we will see disc eclipse rim brake in total sales in 2018.”

SRAM: "For model year 2018 product, discs represented 67 percent of all sales, Zellmann says, compared to 44 percent for model year 2017. (Model years are often a year ahead of the actual calendar. For example, SRAM sold MY2018 brakes during 2017.) Of those MY2018 sales, discs represented a whopping 87 percent of road brakes sold as OE to bike brands, according to SRAM. For aftermarket sales, discs represented 13 percent of road bike sales."

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 5:35

Post #2 of 72 (4666 views)

:)

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 5:49

Post #3 of 72 (4632 views)

But since each bike already has two big wheels used as disc brakes shouldn’t it be 100 percent of sales?.....

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 5:52

Post #4 of 72 (4626 views)

I just bought and put together a Canyon Aeroad with disc brakes. I also have a fat bike with disc brakes. I don’t really understand the industry push in this direction but I gave up on fighting it and I know my next tri bike purchase a few years from now will end up having disc brakes. I do like the lack of fiddling with brakes though. Not going to lie.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 5:53

Post #5 of 72 (4622 views)

Grant.Reuter wrote:

But since each bike already has two big wheels used as disc brakes shouldn’t it be 100 percent of sales?.....

Haha, don't shoot the messenger. I agree with you. Personally I'm on Team Rim Brake/Team TomA.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:00

Post #6 of 72 (4608 views)

The GMAN wrote:

I do like the lack of fiddling with brakes though. Not going to lie.

Oh, there will be fiddling. Trust me, there will be fiddling. So long as you want brakes that don't pulse or squeak you'll have to constantly true your rotors. I'm far from some lone voice in the desert on this issue.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:01

Post #7 of 72 (4604 views)

Haha not shooting the messenger either way. I’m not exactly surprised about the numbers, since a lot of bike manufactures are pushing disks now.

I don’t really care either way I’m just not running out the door to trade in my bikes for disc brakes when they work completely fine.

This sport does have a lot of people with a lot of sticking money who will do just that and then sell it next year after their 1 Ironman triathlon.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:17

Post #8 of 72 (4585 views)

GreenPlease wrote:

The GMAN wrote:

I do like the lack of fiddling with brakes though. Not going to lie.

Oh, there will be fiddling. Trust me, there will be fiddling. So long as you want brakes that don't pulse or squeak you'll have to constantly true your rotors. I'm far from some lone voice in the desert on this issue.

I know there will be eventual fiddling. I just like that there's not as much fiddling, yet.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:29

Post #9 of 72 (4553 views)

GreenPlease wrote:

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/road-disc-brakes-the-tipping-point-51685/

Shimano: "We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics.

Yeah... seriously! Have been waiting for the damn Ultegra 8070 shifters for 6 months. Not too keen on dropping $800 on the Dura-Ace model and certainly can't consider the massive hoods on the old di2/hydro levers.

Alex Arman

Strava

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:45

Post #10 of 72 (4514 views)

I have done 20,000 km on disc brakes and I have never had to touch them yet. I do a bit more on my mtb, but you are not exactly smashing through rock gardens on your road bike, how the hell do you bend a road rotor outside a crash ?

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:48

Post #11 of 72 (4505 views)

Grant.Reuter wrote:

Haha not shooting the messenger either way. I’m not exactly surprised about the numbers, since a lot of bike manufactures are pushing disks now.

I don’t really care either way I’m just not running out the door to trade in my bikes for disc brakes when they work completely fine.

This sport does have a lot of people with a lot of sticking money who will do just that and then sell it next year after their 1 Ironman triathlon.

Is the main argument just stopping power? My road bike has rim brakes. My gravel/adventure bike has disc brakes. stopping power has never been an issue. at least with rim brakes I know how to adjust them and they're pretty simple.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:49

Post #12 of 72 (4505 views)

Grant.Reuter wrote:

Haha not shooting the messenger either way. I’m not exactly surprised about the numbers, since a lot of bike manufactures are pushing disks now.

I don’t really care either way I’m just not running out the door to trade in my bikes for disc brakes when they work completely fine.

This sport does have a lot of people with a lot of sticking money who will do just that and then sell it next year after their 1 Ironman triathlon.

Two thinks;
1. Maybe disc with a k (disk) is a good way differentiate between a real disc wheel (the flat fast thing on the back of the bike) and one with silly brakes. Sort of like Crab versus Krab, respectively.

2. I wonder what percentage of tri bike purchases are for an "I am going to do an Ironman" bucket list item.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:52

Post #13 of 72 (4496 views)

There are tons of threads on here of me and Tom A. fighting haha. Better stopping power and the ability to use carbon rims is why the switch is happening. A possible aero advantage but it won't be much.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 6:53

Post #14 of 72 (4493 views)

This is huge.

“We are going to stop selling full rim-brake road bikes, and will only sell them as framesets,” says Specialized PR spokesman Sean Estes.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:00

Post #15 of 72 (4476 views)

BryanD wrote:

There are tons of threads on here of me and Tom A. fighting haha. Better stopping power and the ability to use carbon rims is why the switch is happening. A possible aero advantage but it won't be much.

okay. I see. I guess for myself just being a typical MOPer these haven't been issues for me. Carbon rims certainly aren't the limiting factor for me. I've never had stopping power issues with rim brakes that I'm aware of. I suppose if I was riding in more mountainous terrain with very steep descents the stopping power issue would be more relevant. But I don't care either way. I'll stick with the bikes I have and when it comes time to buy a new one if it has disc brakes that's fine.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:02

Post #16 of 72 (4470 views)

That's exactly what you should do! Instead of getting upset about it just buy whatever bike is out when you are ready to upgrade. I still ride my 2011 P2 and I'm waiting for Specialized to release a new Shiv and for Felt, Trek, etc. to release disc brake bikes before I make the jump.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:20

Post #17 of 72 (4435 views)

BryanD wrote:

This is huge.

“We are going to stop selling full rim-brake road bikes, and will only sell them as framesets,” says Specialized PR spokesman Sean Estes.

That caught me by surprise considering they just came out with a new Venge six months ago and I know that's a popular bike. I've never been one to care much about weight but my LBS had a custom S-Works build on the floor that weighed ~13lbs in a 54 and I thought to myself "damn that's cool".

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:20

Post #18 of 72 (4434 views)

I don't mind the trend either. I just won't trash what I have to adopt quicker. No point. Sure, the next purchase "may" be disc.

I was about to say I thought they tend to push pricier group sets with hydro discs vs. mech discs, but was proved wrong when I bothered to search. Plenty of 105 stuff I see with hydro discs now.

How "swappable" are disc wheels between bikes? Let's say you have a hydro disc race roadie and a hydro disc CX bike. Weather turns good so you want to throw the roadie wheels on the CX bike for a road ride without breaking out the race roadie in the winter.

Is that as simple as moving over normal rim braked stuff? Or do the disc setups have to be identical? I thought there were different diameter discs and things that could complicate it.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:34

Post #19 of 72 (4409 views)

Rotors have to be the same diameter (ie., you can't easily swap a 140 rotor with a 160 rotor).

I've noticed that some rotor appear to be ever so slightly thicker/thinner and that can affect 'rub'. You might have to adjust the calipers if you're running different rotors

The actual placement of the rotor on the hub should be consistent between wheels, however, slight lateral deviations may require you to reposition / realign the calipers.

For a wrench-inclined person, this is no big-deal.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [Blacky] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:37

Post #20 of 72 (4400 views)

Blacky wrote:

I have done 20,000 km on disc brakes and I have never had to touch them yet. I do a bit more on my mtb, but you are not exactly smashing through rock gardens on your road bike, how the hell do you bend a road rotor outside a crash ?

Just bump it in transit or while hanging it up at home or have someone bump it while a group is stopped at a gas station. It doesn't take much force to throw a throw a rotor out of true.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [doublea334] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:42

Post #21 of 72 (4392 views)

doublea334 wrote:

Not too keen on dropping $800 on the Dura-Ace model and certainly can't consider the massive hoods on the old di2/hydro levers.

Those are the perfect size for my paws and everything else feels weird now. I can hardly wait for the 785's to start hitting the classifieds once the newest stuff starts getting delivered.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:46

Post #22 of 72 (4387 views)

GreenPlease wrote:

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/road-disc-brakes-the-tipping-point-51685/

Shimano: "We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics. There is a good chance we will see disc eclipse rim brake in total sales in 2018.”

SRAM: "For model year 2018 product, discs represented 67 percent of all sales, Zellmann says, compared to 44 percent for model year 2017. (Model years are often a year ahead of the actual calendar. For example, SRAM sold MY2018 brakes during 2017.) Of those MY2018 sales, discs represented a whopping 87 percent of road brakes sold as OE to bike brands, according to SRAM. For aftermarket sales, discs represented 13 percent of road bike sales."

Good...all the sooner that everyone switches over...at which point someone will "re-discover" the fact that integrating the braking surface into the rim is the most elegant/efficient solution for a road racing bike (if you use the appropriate materials)...but, they'll somehow make the new stuff incompatible with EVERYTHING previous, and everyone will "need" to buy a new bike again :-/

BTW, I'm thinking Nina Baum might want to dial back the snark a little bit...

Quote:

“It’s foreseeable that the majority of remaining unconvinced road riders will adopt disc brakes over the next couple of years,” says Cannondale product manager Nina Baum.“Road riders tend to be technically savvy, and with the performance advantage of disc brakes further corroborated by their ascent to WorldTour podiums we will see even those denizens of the sunnier and more well-paved parts of the country and world, who have clung with wearied forearms to their lightweight rim-brake setups, start to move their next purchase plans to disc-brake-equipped.”

Well, duh...of course they will. As was detailed in the article, the manufacturers aren't going to give them the choice. Oh, and that's a bit of hyperbole about the "performance advantage" and "WorldTour podiums", no? Sheesh.

I always said that this was going to end up in less choice in purchases, rather than more (as some claimed). There you have it.

Time to start supporting custom builders more, I guess...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:51

Post #23 of 72 (4376 views)

GreenPlease wrote:

Blacky wrote:

I have done 20,000 km on disc brakes and I have never had to touch them yet. I do a bit more on my mtb, but you are not exactly smashing through rock gardens on your road bike, how the hell do you bend a road rotor outside a crash ?

Just bump it in transit or while hanging it up at home or have someone bump it while a group is stopped at a gas station. It doesn't take much force to throw a throw a rotor out of true.

It seems like we have a very different experience with regards to this issue then...
the only Bike I have that I treat gently is my p3. Everything else is used, and used hard. I’ve never once had an issue with rotors coming out of true, and I’ve been in some ~20-25 mph mountain bike crashes, both solo and in groups. No issues here.

I’m not saying that can’t happen, or don’t happen, or won’t happen. I’m just saying that my n=1 is that my disc brakes are reliable, strong, and tough.

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [beston] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 7:56

Post #24 of 72 (4362 views)

beston wrote:

Rotors have to be the same diameter (ie., you can't easily swap a 140 rotor with a 160 rotor).

I've noticed that some rotor appear to be ever so slightly thicker/thinner and that can affect 'rub'. You might have to adjust the calipers if you're running different rotors

The actual placement of the rotor on the hub should be consistent between wheels, however, slight lateral deviations may require you to reposition / realign the calipers.

For a wrench-inclined person, this is no big-deal.

I have 2 sets of wheels for my "all-road" rig. On the rear, the disc is in a slightly different location laterally, so when I swap the wheel, I need to either readjust the caliper location, or just open up the pad spacing (I'm using cable actuated brakes on that, so it's easy). Ideally, I'd take the time to shim the disc on one wheel so it matches the other and then I wouldn't need to fiddle with it.

Also, besides rotor size, you need to make sure the axle configurations (dropout spacing and thru axle/QR setups are the same...and with thru axle, the same diameter).

So...not always an easy swap. For example, just yesterday a friend was inquiring about borrowing one of my wheel sets in order to try out the particular tires I have mounted. Her bike is disc also (Trek 920). Upon further investigation, it was a "no go". The front thru-axle diameters are different (15mm vs. 12mm), and I still have my Fuji set up with 135mm QR for the rear (so I can use my MTB PT hub), while the 920 is 142mm thru-axle. We didn't even get to the rotor size determination...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Last edited by: Tom A.: Feb 6, 18 8:03

Re: Bike Radar on the Disc Brake Tipping Point (Paging BryanD) [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 18 8:02

Post #25 of 72 (4340 views)

no need to sell your rim bike bike if your happy with it, but if you are buying new you would be dumb not to go disc at this point

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