I suspect he's talking about everesting on a bike, as in riding laps of a hill until you've climbed as much vert as Everest is tall

https://everesting.cc/everesting/

That’s a thing?

I stand mistaken then

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_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

Yeah, I have a buddy who's all about that stuff. Did that for a total of 10,000 meters. Absolutely nuts

wow, you nailed my story to a tee. I love riding my bike, but don't feel safe enough to ride 3-5 hours on the roads by myself. Plus running races are just simpler to manage, even if you have to travel. For now my line has been I want to race another IM, but don't want to train for another IM. FWIW I did a 50 mile ultra for the challenge. It was a challenge, but not so much fun.

I'm planning 2 marathons and will look for a few summer races, 5k, 10k and tri's. But it's been a real bummer with our main local race (The Columbia Tri) cancelling for the year and likely forever. I hope Dan's right and that Tri comes back big time.

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Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe

So I'm square in the "old guy/dad" demographic of 40 with 3 kids and have been on/off again in Tri for the past 4 years or so, with an Oly being my max distance. I like that its something "different" from running and keeps training more interesting, and let's someone like me who can't compete in pure cycling events do something "competitive" on the bike.

It seems Tri used to be the place for folks that we're semi-competitive runners who wanted to try something new and different. Now a lot of that demographic seems to go to adventure races, ultras, etc. for the reasons folks have already articulated.

The main challenge I see is that Tri has lost its "soul" and become too clinical. One of the most fun races I did was at our community YMCA. It was a sprint with a pool swim, and the start was down the water slide into the pool, and there was a DJ and beer tent at the end. The average person looks at that and says "Hey, I'd give that a try, looks like fun" while that same person looks at Triathlete Magazine and concludes they need an undergraduate degree in Exercise Biology, $15K worth of equipment, and need to commit to a "real" race of at least 70.3 as minimum requirements for entry. Wanna start running? Grab your shoes and here's Couch 2 5K. Wanna start tri? Go grab a power meter, hire coaches, and live a monastic existence for 11.6 months of the year.

Even your "serious" running events have people in wacky T-shirts, a brewery tent at the finish, and whatnot, while everyone in Tri these days looks like they came off an assembly line where they traded in their personality for things made of carbon fiber.

Tri will never get mainstream TV coverage in the US (I used to ski competitively so I know the feeling of not being a 'real' athlete since you're not on TV all too well) but I don't think that's what gets you participants in a sport. American Football and NASCAR don't have millennials and dads putting on shoulder pads or doing high-speed laps at the mall. I'd love to see organizations like the YMCA running community-based sprints that are serious enough that it feels like an athletic accomplishment (vs. being electrocuted and getting muddy) but not so serious that it demands you become a bore.

This.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Slappy,

I agree with you assessment of the current state of triathlon in the U.S. but there are plenty of the low key Y type tris in Ohio. Should we try to prevent people who are interested in continuing in tri from progressing to becoming, in your words, a bore? Will triathlon really become more healthy financially if most triathletes are mainly interested in doing several low key Y type tris each summer? I'm moving in that direction after being an IM-fixated "bore" for more than a decade (and having started back in the day as a runner looking for something different), but my decision to do a half-dozen fun, low-key sprint tris on a 18-year-old bicycle with no desire for coaching or the current training technology isn't really improving triathlon's bottom line much, as least I don't think it is.

Amen to that - especially saturday morning races so you can still enjoy the weekend.

Astute observations, all.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

No way, and I certainly don't want to insult people that compete at the highest levels... I greatly admire those who do and their dedication. However, I keep going back to running since that's what led me to tri and still the sport where I participate in more races than tri. Most races have a small segment of top-tier competitors, but that coexists with the chubby dudes like yours truly who are gunning for a PR and are probably at the beer tent rocking to the band with 90% of the participants post-race rather than watching the awards ceremony. No one is looking down on the noobs and both groups happily coexist at most races, and I'd guess both groups feel like their needs are being met.

If you look at the running magazines and web sites, they're mostly targeted toward that 90% and convey a "Hey couch surfer, you can do this too" kind of vibe. Just look at magazine covers and see the language that's used ("better foods for better miles" vs. "Fueling").

I don't really know the economics of amateur sports, or how profits on a mid-tier marathon compare to a similar HIM/IM, but it seems like running has an event calendar and general "vibe" with relatively low barriers to entry, and a gradual, sliding scale of participation, from walking/jogging your local turkey trot to coaching, track work, and gadgets to compete at the top tier, but there doesn't seem to be an unwritten pressure that the former must become the latter in order to be a "true" participant in the sport, which is the vibe of tri. I don't know if there's some organization or "running illuminati" that thinks through all this or it just happens organically but I'd think you could successfully straddle both worlds in Tri, and that rising participation would lift all boats.

When you write that folks at tris appear to be "looking down on the noobs" what do you specifically mean? Is it related to equipment, fitness, both? I see plenty of chubby dudes at the tris I currently do and have done, including WTC events.

Certainly there are lower barriers to entry in running compared to tri and that is never going to change.

I think that based on most events, magazines, marketing etc. newbies have the idea that they need all this crap that the industry pushes to give it a go. I believe a lot of folks are worried about looking stupid and that they will fail. Can it be done? Absolutely! For what it is worth my very first Tri was and IM that i did on a bit of a dare. I bought a used wetsuits from the classifieds (I know I am dating myself) and an entry level Cannondale road bike with triple ring and clip on bars. No coach, no fancy nutrition products, etc. Now I am not fast but certainly faster than the average person but I finished and had some fun. I have been a competitive sports guy most of my life so I am not particularly intimidated, nor do I generally care what others think. That said, i definitely had the cheapest bike on the rack, a shoddy looking swim set up and was probably the only guy at the race meeting in jeans and a concert jersey. Yes - all the fancy gear and 2000 people walking around in Spandex and compression socks and logo'd up with all the latest products is totally scary to a lot of folks who might have a thought about trying.

Maybe as Slappy stated above the waterslide is where its at - especially for young kids. Why not have a waterslide, everyone has to ride a bike with a banana seat and clothes pinned baseball cards in the spokes and run backwards the last 250m. Maybe this will take away the intimidation. Running has done this with fun 5ks, colour runs, Rock'n Roll, Turkey trots etc. You can still race if you want but most are out for fun and it keeps participation high.

I'd say the "looking down" is largely related to equipment. Show up with a ratty mountain bike at the average event and you'll get some looks. Heck, I even get comments like "You know you can add aero bars" when I show up with my relatively modern and nice Felt AR5. Even if you don't get any looks or comments I was pretty intimidated when I showed up at my first sprint with a 20 yo steel road bike that I had to rack next to what looked like alien motorcycle spaceships at the time.

To mitigate this, I'd love to see some sort of "branded" sprint series. Call it the Tinman or something wacky. License it to RDs for free, but demand that they agree:

1) No fees above $100
2) Pool swim of 1-400 yards
3) Have a special USAT registration that's free and basically just gets your email address so you can start to share info with the noobs
4) A cheeky list of bike rules like No carbon fiber, must cost less than a used 2008 Honda Civic, less than 11 speeds or similar... you could even have a beach cruiser-only race, or charge $150 and include a $100 Chinese road bike from Walmart in the entry fee. Get creative here...
5) Give people a Tinman medal at the end, maybe it's a little heart or something. I hate participation awards as much as the next guy, but I still remember my first half-marathon medal and it felt like something I "earned" since HM isn't just something the average joe can do without some commitment and training. Even with a light-hearted spirit and related rules doing a sprint-distance tri is still something that's non-trivial for the average couch potato and deserves some recognition.
6) Maybe you even do something sacrilegious like run the event backwards (R/B/S or R/S/B) so people can start the run with their buddies and have a friendly face with them through T1.
7) Have a "Tri Ambassador" at these races that walks around and helps tell you were to go, how to rack, etc. and ideally wears a goofy shirt or clown hair or something ridiculous to lighten the mood and make them easy to spot.

Build some C25k-style training programs around this that don't go beyond the level of detail of "Swim hard for two laps, easy for the next", and make the next logical progression a sprint with open water that's draft legal and bans TT/Tri bikes so everyone is on a road bike. The noobs won't draft and don't get intimidated by spaceship bikes, while the vets get something interesting (draft legal).

Approach local cycling, running, and swimming groups and pitch tri as a way to cross train and have some fun and adjust the messaging/vibe around tri as discussed.

I'd bet 75% of mildly serious runners own a bike that's collecting dust, and would give tri a try if they saw itas a logical progression versus some completely different beast.

I would disagree slightly on the point that the same pressure to go long (when are you going to run a marathon?) exists in running, and there is a sense that you aren’t a real runner unless u run marathons.

https://www.runnersworld.com/...-is-freaking-awesome

It’s the mentality that makes people say “im ONLY doing the sprint” or I’m “JUST running the 10k” as if those versions are less impressive.

My first Tri, marketed as a beginner sprint was met with this kind of reception.

Forecast was rain, so I used a 5 gallon bucket as a transition bag to keep my stuff dry. Doubled as a seat as well. Another female newb next to me at the rack had the same idea. While we were getting ready, we had at least 2 separate passersby tell us to bring a proper transition bag for the next one. Then a Carbon Commando tried to bully 2 young females out of their assigned spots on the end of the rack. I told him to take his stuff and find his spot. He resisted. I told him if he didn't leave, I would break off his seatpost, impale him on it, and take him and the bike to a marshal. He took his bike and left. After the race, I was sitting at a table chowing on the food. Some people sitting at the table asked how my race went. Found out I was a first timer and wanted my opinion. I said it did not do much for me. I said, "but if it did is there some kind of weekly series/league that I could sign up for?" The guy sitting across from me says, "why would you want to do that? A Sprint is just a beginner tri. You are not a real Triathlete until you have done an Ironman. You need to sign up for one, get a coach and start training."

I kid you not.

I thanked him for the info and headed to get my stuff. As I am walking to the car with my bucket and bike, I catch up to the other newb with the bucket. We are sharing thoughts. She enjoyed the racing part and the training, but not enough to overcome the negative vibe she felt at the event. She doubted she would do another. As we get close to the parking lot we ge passed by a youngish couple dressed head to toe in IM sweats/headgear carrying IM backpacks. Did I mention it was around 90 degrees by that time? They mention in passing that 5 gallon buckets are not good transition bags. The other newb and I look at each other and shake our heads.

I kid you not.

Triathlon is very pricey and there is a large element of look at me types. There are also lots of really good people out having a good time being really nice and helpful.

The not so good element makes things a bit awkward for new entrants. People standing around talking about their awesome FTP, how this is not their A race, how good they are and you pay loads of money for it.

The kind of behaviour where people try to push others around openly as above or rack in another persons spot, move others people stuff around, don't give way to anyone in the transition areas. Just adds fuel to the fire that triathletes are knob jockeys

That sounds extreme! I dont know if it is a cultural thing or not though? Having to feel better than others...
THe races i have done, from sprint to IM have only been positive people. People might be very focused if they are serious and thus not that talkative, which is fine.
But i have never ever heard people talking down on others, e.g. people with road bikes in non draft legal etc. People in general know that you do a triathlon for different reasons, a sprint might be hard for some. For alot its not about competing with others as it is to compete with yourself. Or it might just be a thing at the end of some training done. E.g. we have quite a few mothers in our club, and i'm so fucking impressed that they have the time/motivation to train for a triathlon while having smaller kids too!

I actually would not want to be racking next someone using a 5 gallon bucket if the space on the rack is tight. If your bucket was placed at the end of the rack opposite to the egress/ingress side, that's cool. But if you put it next to the bike, you are likely taking up someone's space.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

There are jerks everywhere, although I don't think I've ever had that experience, people are generally pretty nice to me (and I try to be nice to them). The "not a real triathlete til Ironman" thing is annoying and off-putting to newcomers as well as people who've been in for a while and have no desire to do said Ironman.

That said, the bucket in the transition area is a no-no. It's very likely to get in someone elses way, if it gets knocked over or kicked into the path it can be a hazard to people running through, etc. The race organizers should have made that clear in the race packet and before the race as you are setting up. If they didn't, that's their fault, but in general, no buckets in transition is a good rule.

You don't need a fancy transition bag (I usually just use a mesh speedo swim gear bag, I got it for free but I think they sell for about $15-20. Get to transition, lay out towel, dump everything out and then organize. put stuff I don't need during the race back in the bag an go stash it somewhere til after the race.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

At a local Sprint/Oly, If you're packing people in so tight that a 5 gallon bucket (11.8" wide) can't fit in somebody's transition space, you're doing it wrong. Get some more racks. Beginners are going to take a little more time in transition; give them a little more space so they can be comfortable. Might be the difference between a one-and-done or a repeat customer.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

all depends on the race, how many volunteers they managed to recruit to help set up and tear down, how big the area available for transition is, etc. some are tight, some aren't. smaller races typically have fewer racks available, less fencing for the transition area, and tighter budgets to work with.

I will add that most local races I've done pack the transition pretty tight. There isn't enough room for everyone to bring a 5 gallon bucket. And the way I think of it is "what would it be like if everyone did this thing?"

even if there is "space", it's a large hard object that can get kicked around and impede others or cause accidents in the transition area.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I'm a long course guy and I use my IM backpacks for transition ... why not? Should I throw them away? That said, I do the occasional local sprint tri and the pain of short course is very, very real. The difference between a sprint and an IM is that the former is like an hour of intense agony while the latter starts out easy, then begins to feel like a tooth ache coming on and ends up feeling like a root canal. Real triathletes can pick their own poison...neither is easy if you are giving your absolute best.

That said, I came to full time triathlon after decades as a runner. My initial thoughts in joining the tri community was that runners were easier going than the tri-crowd although I have become friends with so many great people over the years. But my wife's viewpoint was exactly the opposite of mine. As a spectator/sherpa she has always said that the tri-spouses and race scene was much, much more friendly than the running race crowd.

As to the buckets - I see a few at every local race. They aren't banned by our local RDs, and they are definitely poor transition choices, but I would never say a thing. There are douches in every sport...you just happened to meet a few on your time out.

I wish I could say the same for some of the experiences I've had at a whole host of races. I have definitely experienced some very negative people. Some people who try to act like elitist and quite frankly think they're better than you. Which isn't all bad because when you kick the Daylights out of them it feels extra good. But at One race that I was just spectating I saw a woman in a trek speed concept do nothing but talk down blatantly to people who are on road bikes my wife being one of them. But like I said when she ended up pushing that Trek speed concept up a hill in all her Ironman swag it brought a huge smile to my face when my wife passed her.

Well considering that a 5 gallon bucket is about the same dimensions, maybe smaller than transition bags such as this one:
https://www.ironmanstore.com/...pack-gray-black.html
or this one:
http://www.elite-it.com/...nsition-area/tri-box
I could keep listing others, but that argument doesn't hold water. Those real transition bags can cause the same problems as the bucket. I didn't lay my stuff out because of the rain. It all stayed in the bucket. The bucket only took up a 11.5 inch circle. That is a lot smaller than they typical layed out setup. In fact, if you look at this image, you see how much space a bucket takes compared to the rest of the setup.
https://www.google.com/...mgrc=iqR1FlWKl3w8RM:
About all you can say is that the bucket might roll. but the same will happen to one of those transition bags if it is kicked or windy. A 5lb weight, which was in the bottom of the bucket took care of that.

often the races don't allow a bag of any sort in the transition. You take your stuff out, lay it out on the ground (on a towel), so the only space you need is literally the width of your handlebars.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly