Absolutely! When I roll into my base block, I have no problem and enjoy starting off with several hours of walking and or walk/jog combos. When I have access to a trail system, it becomes a great way to do it as well...jog if I can, walk up the hills, run downhill at an abbreviated step to get some turnover.

Using specific days to dial it in. Pick one session 3 months out then another 4 to 6 weeks out. Something in the range of 100-150k bike with 10 to 15km run off. With the last 2 hours of bike at race pace and run at race pace. It's a tough session but that and then using B and C races is how I dial in my nutrition.

But re your friend. That just sounds like she isn't fit enough to race at that level. Nothing to do with nutrition.

I just got back from a ride with a mate who hasn't trained all week. He blew me away in 2x15min efforts at the end of the ride where I stuck to IM power and he just rode off. Ironman efforts in training aren't "sexy" enough for most triathletes. It's slow grinding and tbh it hurts with a week worth of training under your belt. If you haven't logged bulk hours in the week then slow on the weekend isn't going to be a magic bullet.

As I said in my first post its months and years of consistency in that aerobic zone which makes people fast. Not one or two sessions a week.

I run at 15min/mile pace and used to race professionally. It takes time but basically you have to learn how to ride/run slowly. I never took the time to do so in the pool (trials cuts growing up) and I now struggle to know how to swim slowly. So i'm completely out of shape and gasping for air after a 100 because my programming only knows how to swim fast. I'm working on it.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
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Thanks. Not so hard when you stop swimming (not since Kona 2014) and barely ride a bike anymore.

Are you seriously running a 15 min mile?

Yup, it's also allowed me to refine my stride mechanics and it's easiest to do on the treadmill. Outside I've got the HRM on and might walk for a tad if the BPMs start to creep up too high. I've had my LT1/2 tested a couple times and we know fairly well where my heart rate lies on that spectrum.

Other data points: I've had 5 folks run under 3:10 OTB in a full. 3 of them it happened after I got them to do 90% of their running at 8:30s or slower. My best OTB mary is 3:15. When i did that my "out the door pace that i can't run any slower then" was ~7:15. :-p

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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what's going on with you... are you back?

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Interesting about swim. My daughter's swim team has a new coach, who has coached some Olympians thru their development years, and my biggest takeaway from talking to him is how terrible he thinks the kids are at swimming at easy effort (I would say slow, but it's not that) in that they all previously raced every set and they do not know how to hold form while going easier. It's a much more aerobic based training (and a large volume increase) but seems to be working with the kids. But yeah, lots more slowing them down than the previous coach.

Brent

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

So true. I do 80% of my running like 9;30 pace with lots of hills. I smile when i have friends tell me how fast they run in training but not very fast in races.

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I am 56. I qualified for the 2018 Boston Marathon in March 2017. My PR at the time was 3:59. I needed a 3:37 to realistically get in. I ran a 3:28. Through the winter all I did was run on the treadmill as fast as my legs would let me run. Never anything more than 7 miles. I ran to sheer exhaustion. I neeed a nap afterward to function properly. I figured if you want to race fast you need to train fast. The proof was in the pudding, as they say. The pace I needed to run 26.2 miles felt like I was standing
still. This run slow to race fast stuff makes no sense. Junk science for coaches to use as a means of justifying their existence.

I think you just discovered N=1 vs aggregate research methods. Congrats. Please don't try to coach anyone.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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To be fair - 9:30 with lots of hills out here in Washington state is pretty fast depending upon the hills :)

Brent

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Completely agree with you Marky. Just plain stupid training there.....

My best running was also with low HR based, easy effort. Mark Allen says he was always easy effort based and capped HR. Went from walking up hills to 5:30 pace based on easy miles. I've used that approach and it certainly does work.

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thats good, but I would posit that it’s not that fast (even for 56...you’ve got a 2:25 sitting at the WR). Looks like you could get that time down by changing up your training. Do a lot more slow stuff and then you’ll be able to run even faster when you do your treadmill sets.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

I appreciate your input!

No. A 15 minute mile is called walking.

The neuromuscular firing patterns for walking are distinct from those used for running. You can walk a 6min mile or you can run a 6min mile (thinking Oly speed walkers) but you're training two different things.

I'm sure Eliud Kipchoge, if he were overly simplistic, might refer to 7min miles as walking but then again he starts his runs in the 9min range and occasionally ends 10 mile runs with average paces above 8min miles so perhaps he understands nuance.

*source: personal communication with Phil Skiba who worked with him on Breaking2

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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I find MA and that lot kinda funny. They are prescribing the right things but when they try to science-y explain it's best to put the ear plugs in. :)

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Somewhat true. That said, the method works.

Cool insight, thanks for sharing. I've read some of Dave Marsh's stuff and it's really awesome to see how swim coaches are approaching training these days as opposed to what I did growing up. When I hear athletes protest "oh, i can't run that slow, that's walking" I'm reminded of how I felt the_exact_same_way. And then I learned, first by observing and then by progressively finding that sweet spot where I needed to be. Easier with run and bike cuz I could use HR to keep me in check but now, hoping back into the water for the first time in 8 years armed with all the knowledge i've acquired being the coach, finding the struggle on the swim to be monumental. Also find it hilarious that i still default to a 1:10ish per hundred stroke despite zero fitness.

Where do your kids train?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I'm having a momentary lapse in sanity.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

This post really tells us nothing. That winter even though you ran fast might have been the most consistent training you had done for all we know.

Imo any healthy male your age with a good base and consistent training should be able to BQ regardless of what method they use. Is 3.28 the best you can produce though? Not likely.

For sure. There's a half mile up behind Padden than I don't think I've ever covered in less than six minutes. There are many places where pace becomes an irrelevant metric.

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

I’ve done tris in the past but am currently only a runner. I’ve come to realize that I am guilty of making my hard runs not hard enough and my easy runs not nearly easy enough. As I get older (currently 36) and definitely more injury prone I’m looking to start training the right way. My question is what does a typical week look like and where does the hard stuff fit in?

For a little context marathon PR is 2:48 (5 years ago, also my last marathon—lots of layoffs due to injury). Most recent race I trained for was a 10 miler back in May—59:47. My basic philosophy has always been 3 main runs—tempo (done in treadmill to lock in pace), medium long, long. In my mind tempo meant 40-45 minutes of a 60 minute run at best pace I could hold—usually 6:15 as I got closer to race day. And then two or three other runs where I’d just run. For the record I’m a horrible judge of pace and always run faster than I think I am.

Currently training for my first 50K (in the mountains of western Virginia) in March and then the 10 miler in May. And currently about 50-55 miles per week on 5-6 runs. What should a typical week look like for me (understanding that the typical week will likely look somewhat different when I transition to the 10 miler, or will it)?

Thanks all.

Walking, running, and cycling all use essentially the same motor pattern. Even running or pedaling backwards only results in modest differences.