Don't forget it's also going to simultaneously add resistance to the trainer. Your bike angles upwards and your pedaling becomes harder.
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Re: Kickr Climb [Sausagetail]
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Re: Kickr Climb [jsfarmer]
[ In reply to ]
What I'm having a hard time with in the picture is, if the rotational axis is the rear axle, then the picture's angled straight line on the climb device is going to force the fork further and further away from the trainer as it slides up... This would be bad for the bike, or move the trainer. Maybe not all of the details are apparent in the picture.
Re: Kickr Climb [mpquick]
[ In reply to ]
mpquick wrote:
What I'm having a hard time with in the picture is, if the rotational axis is the rear axle, then the picture's angled straight line on the climb device is going to force the fork further and further away from the trainer as it slides up... This would be bad for the bike, or move the trainer. Maybe not all of the details are apparent in the picture.Looks like the entire sumbitch rocks to account for that rotational axis and the different fork rakes, etc.
Re: Kickr Climb [jsfarmer]
[ In reply to ]
All major brands are trying to accurately simulating ascents/descents. Wahoo also going for the feel here
Looks like they going for a cheaper version of the Tacx magnum trainer, also safer than the big treadmill
Also do not see any benefit for this little elevator but we have yet to see reviews and test.
Nice find this will cause some noise in the industry
Looks like they going for a cheaper version of the Tacx magnum trainer, also safer than the big treadmill
Also do not see any benefit for this little elevator but we have yet to see reviews and test.
Nice find this will cause some noise in the industry
Re: Kickr Climb [Biggrub_tri]
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As I understand it, the big downside to the Magnum is that it *needs* incline to produce any sort of meaningful resistance.
Re: Kickr Climb [GreenPlease]
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Re: Kickr Climb [GreenPlease]
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I remember the InsideRide treadmill had a tether to simulate air resistance. Most riders opted not to use it. Why not just increase the angle of inclination slightly to compensate for the lack of air resistance? I think it was because they wanted it to actually be inclined at 5% when simulating a 5% grade and not, say, 6.5% while reporting it as 5%.
Re: Kickr Climb [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail wrote:
I've thought about the physics, and I don't know what searches I'm supposed to do. What's wrong with simulating climbing by raising the front wheel (while simultaneously adjusting pedaling torque)?
Keep in mind that this is just a simulation. Every simulator has a degree of fidelity. A trainer is already very different in a lot of ways from actually riding on a road.
But I only see changing the pitch angle of the bike during "climbs" as slightly increasing the fidelity of the overall simulation.
BIOMECHANICS AND ENERGETICS OF UPHILL CYCLING: A REVIEW
Re: Kickr Climb [Sausagetail]
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This paper supports the idea that uphill positioning is different and this device could therefore help simulate that
Re: Kickr Climb [jsfarmer]
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I hope Wahoo are reading this thread and plan on supporting people like me, who have supported them by purchasing 12 of these just before August and they neglected to mention they were planning updates which we wouldn't have the choice to use.
Merchant Bankers comes to mind......
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Re: Kickr Climb [iamuwere]
[ In reply to ]
iamuwere wrote:
This paper supports the idea that uphill positioning is different and this device could therefore help simulate thatWhich study supports that conclusion?
Re: Kickr Climb [Sausagetail]
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The one you just linked
Re: Kickr Climb [iamuwere]
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iamuwere wrote:
The one you just linkedIt's not a study but a review of ~40 studies. Which one(s) supports your conclusion?
Re: Kickr Climb [Sausagetail]
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So they are going to release a new Kickr Model, when the current version was released 11 months ago? Not making a backwards compatible accessory is a pretty lame thing to do.....although I doubt I would buy this climbing thing anyway.
Re: Kickr Climb [Mike Alexander]
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My impression is that it will be compatible with Kickr 2 but not Kickr 1. I could be wrong.
Re: Kickr Climb [Sausagetail]
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Sausagetail wrote:
iamuwere wrote:
The one you just linkedIt's not a study but a review of ~40 studies. Which one(s) supports your conclusion?
Stop being obtuse. Just state plainly state your issue with the Cimb. Have some basic respect for those you're trying to argue with.
Re: Kickr Climb [jsfarmer]
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Wow! thanks for posting
Re: Kickr Climb [jsfarmer]
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Was looking to order a trainer this weekend. Guess I'd better hold out through the week.
Re: Kickr Climb [jsfarmer]
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Re: Kickr Climb [tylerwal]
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tylerwal wrote:
Wow, that's awesome. I honestly thought about doing something like this myself and looked at using a small motorcycle lift for the front wheel paired with a pc-controller motor to actuate it. But a combination of thinking it wouldn't respond quick enough, zwift not having an public api, and laziness, kept me from doing much other than dreaming. As a kickr gen 1 owner, I don't know why this couldn't work with us, could simulate another trainer and receive ant+ commands from the computer or even use WiFi and talk to the zwift servers directly.
I got as far as buying an actuator, and decoding the ant packets, but never got further.
When zwift talks to the kickr, it sends over ant data packets containing current slope gradient to simulate (as an aside for negative slopes zwift currently sends half the true value, i.e. if zwift says it's 10% down hill, it sends 5% down to the kickr - as it can't simulate down hill very well).
Presumably it's relaying this information to the Climb unit. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a spare channel to do this on the orginal kickr, so there might be a firmware upgrade in the future.
And like you say there shouldn't be anything stopping a software simulating another trainer to then relay the data. Just needs an extra ant dongle.
Re: Kickr Climb [trail]
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If you've done any serious climbing on the bike, you've realized that what is hard is not having the front wheel higher. What's hard is having to use your back muscles etc. to stabilize your bike and fight gravity. You really don't have to do this with the new device.
You can try riding for 1h at 280w with your front wheel level, and then 1h with your wheel on top of a thick book and will not see any difference.
You can try riding for 1h at 280w with your front wheel level, and then 1h with your wheel on top of a thick book and will not see any difference.
Re: Kickr Climb [tylerwal]
[ In reply to ]
More will come out Wednesday when the media embargo lifts, but to answer why this isn't retrofittable, consider the basic physics of your existing Wahoo Kickr; the front lifts, but the back is locked into the trainer. Considering there is no pivot point, imagine what that will do to your frame's dropouts: just tear them up. The two new trainers have dropout plug-ins that can rotate, meaning the frame can move freely without damage to your frame.
I've just been on it, tied to Zwift, and it's pretty rad. More soon...
I've just been on it, tied to Zwift, and it's pretty rad. More soon...
Re: Kickr Climb [Francois]
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The fighting gravity simulation is done by the resistance unit. Never noticed issues stabilizing the bike.
Doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure there's something valid there. Though that's true with non-roller trainers generally.
The Climb does seem like it'd help simulate the change in use of contact points. I think if you did an hour at 280W with three thick books and told me no difference you'd be lying. At a minimum it'd be way less comfortable I'd think. I think you'd have to work to stabilize your body. One book much less so. O
Re: Kickr Climb [trail]
[ In reply to ]
Well, the thing is that I've tried several times already and lifting your front wheel just does not simulate what you experience in the mountains.
I can raise my front wheel by 20cm and even after an hour at somewhat high wattage, you don't experience what you experience on steep mountains, or even long steady climbs at 7-8% for that matter.
I can raise my front wheel by 20cm and even after an hour at somewhat high wattage, you don't experience what you experience on steep mountains, or even long steady climbs at 7-8% for that matter.
The older kickrs don't allow for the bike to independantly move up or down. The new one does .