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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
How many players ended up kneeling during the anthem last year. IIRC it was a whole bunch. Yet Kaep is the only one that owners are blackballing over this? Sorry, I am just not buying that argument at all.

I posted a link earlier in the thread that listed all the players who knelt with Kaep last year. Kaep is the only one not on a team this year.

Yep, that's the problem ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
JSA wrote:
I could just be spit balling here, I'm actually looking at his statistics ...


i think it's pretty clear, if statistics are your judge, that kap is safely ensconced in starter territory.


Don't overthink why Colin Kaepernick is still a free agent. Simply put, years have passed since he was an effective quarterback. He is 29 years old, has succeeded only in an unsustainable scheme and is part of a well-populated group of former starters who also remained available as the week began.
Filmmaker Spike Lee has raised the issue of whether social and cultural forces are at work here, calling it "fishy" that Kaepernick is unsigned. The implication, of course, is that teams are avoiding Kaepernick because of his decision to kneel last year during the national anthem.
To blame Kaepernick's unemployment on his protest is to misread the way NFL teams make personnel decisions.
While it would be naĂ¯ve to think every owner and general manager approved of Kaepernick's protest, or that it never influenced their perception of him, it's important to understand priorities. Teams are swayed first by a player's potential (or lack thereof) to help them win. Protest or not, Kaepernick would be under contract now if he had played demonstrably better in recent years.

http://www.espn.com/...ormance-not-politics

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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That link didn't prove your point. Everyone knows that ESPN is populated by a bunch of Trump ball-washers.
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
That link didn't prove your point. Everyone knows that ESPN is populated by a bunch of Trump ball-washers.












If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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QFT...

Protest or not, Kaepernick would be under contract now if he had played demonstrably better in recent years.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Good looking trend!

as you yourself pointed out higher in this thread, rating ahead of bortles, tannehill, newton, wentz, fitzpatrick, keenum.

in fact, were i to pick a QB for the NYG, there is no one from starter to reserve on that team that i'd automatically pick above kap. and, yes, using stats, kap, bad team and all, had a higher QB rating that manning. this altho neither QB could get the 49ers to win.

i don't like kap's politics. i cringe every time he makes a statement. and kneels for the anthem. there is some common element between kap and i you could point to, but politics isn't it.

he is clearly - notwithstanding your attempts to conjure an advocate's argument - better than a third of the QBs in the league, maybe half or more if you count backups. my beef is that nobody in the NFL will face or admit the hard truth as to why he's not signed, except for the other players (and even then only the players who can afford to speak).

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
JSA wrote:
Good looking trend!


as you yourself pointed out higher in this thread, rating ahead of bortles, tannehill, newton, wentz, fitzpatrick, keenum.

in fact, were i to pick a QB for the NYG, there is no one from starter to reserve on that team that i'd automatically pick above kap. and, yes, using stats, kap, bad team and all, had a higher QB rating that manning. this altho neither QB could get the 49ers to win.

Yeah, the only thing holding back the Giants is a decent QB ...






Slowman wrote:
i don't like kap's politics. i cringe every time he makes a statement. and kneels for the anthem. there is some common element between kap and i you could point to, but politics isn't it.

You both have white parents?








What do I win?

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Slowman wrote:
JSA wrote:
Good looking trend!


if eli's 2 rings (10 and 6 years ago), are the metric, then kap's more recent success history, taking his team to the super bowl a year after manning's super bowl doesn't count? and the NFC championship game the year after that?

your arguments seem okay to you (stats, or winning tendencies) until they become inconvenient when used against you. then you change the goal post (pardon the pun).

manning might be better. it's close. kap has a better QB rating. much more mobile. doesn't throw INTs. might've been nice if he had odell beckham. might've been nice if he had a line.

manning has his moments. but he throws twice as many INTs per TD. and don't get me started on cam newton. i don't think there's a stat where kap didn't outpoint cam, and kap did it with an infinitely worse team.

point being: kap's being blackballed. if you think that's okay, okay. just say it.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

your arguments seem okay to you (stats, or winning tendencies) until they become inconvenient when used against you. then you change the goal post (pardon the pun).

No, I really don't. You claim Kaep is a better QB than X, but give absolutely no support for that claim. I give you a stat showing X is better than Kaep. You then pick another QB, again without any support whatsoever. I give you another stat destroying your claim. You get frustrated, claim racism, blackballing, blah, blah, blah.


Slowman wrote:
point being: kap's being blackballed. if you think that's okay, okay. just say it.

Yep. In the exact same manner Tim Tebow is being blackballed and Bob the Third is being blackballed and Tony Romo was blackballed and Vince Young was blackballed ...

It's really ok for you to finally admit this. Just say it.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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What everyone is ignoring, is HE OPTED OUT OF HIS CONTRACT WITH THE 49's. He could still be playing making millions of dollars this year, but chose to opt out. His choice.

I miss YaHey
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [justgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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justgeorge wrote:
What everyone is ignoring, is HE OPTED OUT OF HIS CONTRACT WITH THE 49's. He could still be playing making millions of dollars this year, but chose to opt out. His choice.

A poor choice.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
No, I really don't. You claim Kaep is a better QB than X, but give absolutely no support for that claim.

i don't keep saying what you say i keep saying. i don't think you can say that one QB is definitely better than another because there are a lot of factors, such as, it's hard to compare 2 QBs when one has a better line, running game, receivers, or is on a team that plays a style that suits him.

but i am saying that kap is certainly not unfit to play in the NFL. he's got a better rating than at least a half dozen starters; he's got an outrageously good TD to INT ratio, he's at least russell wilson mobile which is a style of play a significant part of the league is treading toward. he's shown he's a winner when he has a team that's not dreadful.

JSA wrote:
I give you a stat showing X is better than Kaep. You then pick another QB, again without any support whatsoever. I give you another stat destroying your claim..


you got that backward, slick. you're projecting now. i've been seeing a lot of projection lately as a defense mechanism. not healthy.[/quote]
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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How about you put up any empirical evidence to support your claims, then we can actually debate rather than me repeatedly making you look the fool.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So, in your world, the existence of a quality QB is kinda like the existence of God. You cannot prove it with empiracle evidence - you simply believe or you don't.

Interesting ...

Be careful with that belief system. Belief in God is the reason Tim Tebow was blackballed by the NFL.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
So, in your world, the existence of a quality QB is kinda like the existence of God. You cannot prove it with empiracle evidence - you simply believe or you don't.

is that what you believe? because it's not what i believe. i just don't think statistics paint a complete picture. do you think a running back's yards-per-carry have anything to do with the quality of his line; or the quality of his team's passing game? or is yards-per-carry an absolute arbiter of running back ability?

that said, statistics are of value inside the context of identifiable variables, such as the quality of the team. kap's passing stats are not among the league's best. they are also, however, better than a half-dozen starters; while on a terrible team; and those passing stats ignore his mobility (which is why cam newton's passing stats don't paint his entire picture, altho just about every one of cam's passing metrics are worse than kam's were).

so if you want to rely on stats, fine, the stats demonstrate - even amid being on a bad team - that he's better than a half-dozen starters or more (when you factor in his mobility). add to that his much better demonstrable stats when the team is better; and his ability to win when he's got a competitive team; and he's certainly a QB that shouldn't be constantly overlooked by team after team. NYJ is a perfect example but not the only example.

what's keeping him off teams is the fear owners have of a backlash from fans. i understand the owners' views. but the only thing the fans hate worse than not standing for the anthem, or choking dogs, or cold cocking your GF, is losing. accordingly, i suspect some team might in the end pick kap up after they get tired of losing. we'll see.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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LOL!!!

Kaepernick is synonymous with the read option, which, once upon a time, was going to revolutionize the game. Before that, it was the Wildcat. Before that, the run and shoot. Where are all those players who flourished in the fad of the day? Just like every other flash in the pan fad, the NFL figured out the read option and, when it did, Kaepernick and Bob the Third were done. Poof!

It's really that simple.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman sounds like me four years ago. Drop back passers rule. Case closed.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
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last tri in 83 wrote:
Slowman sounds like me four years ago. Drop back passers rule. Case closed.

I've been waiting for you ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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In my defense, I was swayed by his college performance. Saw more of it than I care to admit against my alma mater. He was amazing. But,as we have seen time after time in the NFL a college performance does not translate to NFL success.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
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last tri in 83 wrote:
In my defense, I was swayed by his college performance. Saw more of it than I care to admit against my alma mater. He was amazing. But,as we have seen time after time in the NFL a college performance does not translate to NFL success.

So were Tim Tebow, Bob the Third, Vince Young, and Jonny Football.

All great QBs blackballed by the NFL ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly and many before them.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
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last tri in 83 wrote:
Exactly and many before them.

Well, they can't all be the best pocket passer in the NFL like Phillip Rivers ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Go Raiders!

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
LOL!!! Kaepernick is synonymous with the read option, which, once upon a time, was going to revolutionize the game. Before that, it was the Wildcat. Before that, the run and shoot.

actually, the pistol is how he came up, to the point where harbaugh basically carried over chris ault's offensive scheme to the 49ers. kelly took them to the spread. if you're looking for anything "synonymous" with kap it's the pistol. it's not just a formation; it's an offensive scheme.

you don't need to run an option offense to appreciate mobility. wilson, winston, newton, mariota, they and QBs like them are the future. i doubt many QBs with no mobility (e.g., rivers) are going to get drafted high anymore.

but you're again taking this off course. i'm not saying kap is a premier QB (altho i still think there's a chance he could develop into one). i'm saying he's much better than a lot of backups and some starters. he deserves to play based on ability. it's his politics rather than his ability that keeps him from getting a reasonable deal. you not acknowledging that doesn't keep it from being the truth (turn on the TV? read a newspaper?)

no more to be gained here. you may have the last word.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Slowman, will you be attending the Kaepernak rally? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
LOL!!!

Kaepernick is synonymous with the read option, which, once upon a time, was going to revolutionize the game. Before that, it was the Wildcat. Before that, the run and shoot. Where are all those players who flourished in the fad of the day? Just like every other flash in the pan fad, the NFL figured out the read option and, when it did, Kaepernick and Bob the Third were done. Poof!

It's really that simple.

Read Option a 'flash in the pan' !? Why do you hate Army Football? We may not be big but we're slow ;-)

/r

Steve
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