You wait. Once he signs, and plays, he's going to unleash a can of fire and fury.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

He will be huuuuge! The best ever!

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I miss YaHey

Who's this Kaepernak dude? Isn't Spike Lee kneeling together with Kapernick?

These are serious questions.

Have you ever played organized football?

How many football games do you attend per year not in a luxury box?

How many college games a week do you watch on TV? NFL?

all the way until i (reluctantly) made the change to running instead of football in the fall, girlfriend.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

His only chance of fire and fury is to set his hair ablaze.

I have to be at that building, on that day. If I wasn't wearing a suit, I'd wear my Cutler jersey.

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I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin

So what is that HS college?

The rest of the questions?

the very first think you should do, if you want to be considered seriously, is learn how to spell peoples' names. now, i know this wasn't YOUR thread. but if you're going to criticize or clean up folks' comments: kaepernick.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Um was that supposed to be directed at me?

yeah! i figured if you were going to scrutinize folks' posts you'd at least have the wherewithal to offer the correct spelling of the subject of the thread.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Okay I'll just take that misdirection as you want to avoid admitting you don't watch football

whatever you say, bra. i'll be interested in watching how the fans in miami react once cutler accurately and with precision delivers the ball into the arms... of cornerbacks and safeties (a particular skill he has). i suspect kaepernick's name will come up in discussion down there. perhaps we can revisit the thread 3 or 4 games into the season.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Okay bra so you know jack about football... Cutler had his best season in recent memory under Gase ... CK has had exactly one decent season. He's effectively the liberal version of Tebow (running QB with a burst in the playoffs but overall nothing spectacular enough to warrant the dog and pony show that accompanies him). If CK gets picked up he'll have to be in a system that can support him and I doubt he'll doing anything as impressive as you think he's capable of.

I bet Dan is as invested in Kaepernick as the rally organizers, who don't even know how to spell his name ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I agree. Which is why I cannot take this rally seriously.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

i don't take it seriously either. it's an unhelpful idea (in addition to butchering his name). kaepernick is 29 going on 19. he's got a good heart, but he's got some catching up to do. better late than never.

there are 2 issues here, to me. first, on the subject of his talent, does he deserve to be on a roster? if the rumor is true he turned down an offer to play for one-eleventh the size of cutler's deal, yes, that was an insult and he should've refused it. yes, he deserves to be on a roster.

secondly, does the league forgive the sins that black people are expected to commit, are allowed to commit, while expressing your view on how black people are treated is not an acceptable sin? if you go back and read what happened to john carlos and tommy smith after the gloved fist episode, i think nothing much has changed.

as to kaepernick's ability versus cutler's ability, so far we will only be able to judge one side of that. we'll see if kap lands a job so that we can judge the other side of that.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Funny, I think the same thing about your inability to find the CAPS key every time I read one of your posts. For the record, his name isn't spelled 'kaepernick', it's spelled 'Kaepernick'.

Just sayin'...

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

Bingo. Perhaps that's why coaches and owners haven't signed him

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Suffer Well.

Kaepernick was offered a back-up position and a back-up salary. The rumor (note I acknowledge it is a rumor) is that he turned down the money for "political" reasons. Cutler will be the starter on day 1. He is getting starter money. The top 10 QBs are making $21-25M this year. So, $10M for a rent-a-QB is reasonable.

http://dailycaller.com/...ay-up-the-race-card/

Reminds me of when Latrell Sprewell turned down a $21M extension with the Timberwolves b/c he "had a family to feed." He never played again. What that b/c of Sprewell's race or political stance?


Yes b/c The Shield most certainly has crucified outspoken black men like Ray Lewis, Richard Sherman, and Michael Bennett.

Then there are all the players who joint in with Kaep and, miraculously, have not been "black balled."

https://www.cbssports.com/...s-protest-in-week-1/




The Miami gig was not about who had the most ability. It was about the fact that Cutler was joining his old offensive coordinator and knew the entire playbook on day 1. Why do you keep ignoring that crucial fact that everyone, but you, seem to acknowledge. Even the biggest Kaepernick supporters recognize and have acknowledged this.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Cutler may know the playbook but he's still an interception machine. He'll wish he was in the Fox booth 5 games in...

and that's fine! but they signed guys who beat up their girlfriends, who choked dogs to death for fun, who drive drunk, who dope. that's the problem. if you're going to not sign kaepernick for the impolitic way he talks about human rights, then don't sign (or re-sign) these other bozos.

otherwise what you're saying is either:

1. kaepernick isn't as good as [fill in the blank], but you're hearing from a lot of players in the NFL that this doesn't ring true; or,

2. kaepernick isn't the right kind of sinner and that, to me, speaks to the very issue kaepernick is (inartfully) raising. this attitude, that we expect you to beat up your girlfriend so we don't condone it but we can forgive it; but don't speak about civil rights; that speaks to what owners actually think about their black players.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Take that shit to the tri forum.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

When is the RG3 rally?

Well sure he is! How quickly you guys forget what I have said about Cutler for years - he is Brent Favre without the up side.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

There are at a minimum three sets of rules for behavior in the NFL.

1 Stars
2 Starters
3 Reserves/backups

Kaepernick at this point in time is a backup. Coaches want their backups to be seen and not heard.

Note what happened to the Dallas player, cannot recall his name, that was accused of a crime. He was immediately cut. Turned out it was a case of false identification. He wasn't a star or a starter. On the other hand, Ezekiel Elliott, one of the best players in the league, finds himself in controversial situations and the team bends over backwards to support him.

In the NFL it is a balancing act. Your performance/contribution on the field weghed against the "distraction" you create off the field.

At this point in time Kaepernick is on the negative side of the scale.

What starting QB do you think is inferior to Kaepernick? What leads you to that conclusion?

Remember, last year, Kaepernick's QB Rating (90.7) was ahead of Phillip Rivers (87.9), who you said was the best pocket passer in the league.

It was also ahead of Carson Palmer (87.2); Eli Manning (86.0); Joe Flacco (83.5), and Carson Wentz (79.3). Do you really believe Kaep is better than any of those QBs?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

BINGO!!! If Kaep had the skill set, no amount of talking or off-the-field conduct would deter teams from signing him. None.

See, e.g., Ray Lewis, Mike Vick, et. al.

Also see, e.g., Bob the Third. When he was drafted by Washington, the team put up with all the shit from his father, coming into the coach's and owner's offices making demands about turning Bob into a pocket passer. They put up with all the hassle b/c they thought he was a star. When he showed he was not, no one put up with that shit anymore.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

" so we don't condone it but we can forgive it; but don't speak about civil rights; that speaks to what owners actually think about their black players."

my take on this is the backlash is not about "Kap" speaking out on civil rights, it's about his disrespect for the National Anthem and a league that is HEAVILY invested in selling Patriotism.

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"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt

Agreed. Any team that signs him is going to have an immediate marketing problem because, rightly or wrongly, he riled up some of the viewing audience. The team owners probably don't care much what awful things the players do, as long as the fans love them. But the skills of a guy that comes with angry fan "baggage" have be weighed carefully.

Full disclosure. I know zero about football.

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Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

for starters - pardon the pun - the QB that ended the season ahead of him on his own team, blake gabbert. or the 49ers upcoming starter, brian hoyer. jared goff (my own hometown team), but i understand why they need to play jared. ryan fitzpatrick. blake bortles. once you go down to the JV, kap is better than half or two-thirds of them.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

i agree that there were other things kap could do that would've perhaps been better than kneeling for the anthem. but, remember, it was 3 games into this before anyone even noticed. and he admitted that this may cost him his pro career and he has never really lashed out about that fact. that's courage. maybe it's inarticulate courage, but it's courage nevertheless.

were i a team owner i like to think that i could wordsmith why he's okay for my team. but if you're right, then implicit it your remark is an admission that, yes, he is being blackballed.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Nope, don't co sign on the blackball label. If he had a track record over a legitimate time frame that put him on par with the top 5 or top 10 QB's, he'd be signed and playing, long ago. Because he has no where near this, then yes the "baggage" is obviously part of the equation.

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"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt

It's "Blaine" Gabbert. I bet you knew that since you watched so much football.

It's also funny you bring him up. You say he started in front of CK to end the season because he is now a back up in Arizona, making the league minimum $900,000 on a 1 year contract.... Eerily similar to the contract that was allegedly offered CK that he refused to sign.

He ended last season as back up to a now back up and you think he deserves to start and make more money than others. I guess I am perplexed at how you come up with this crap.

There's a reason he avoided my question.

these probably didn't help either......

Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't playing this year and the Jets appears to be intentionally taking for the first draft pick. Hoyer has better numbers than Kaep and fits better in the 49ers system. Goff has good potential and, well, you identified why he "has to" play.

So, justify your claim Kaep is better than 2/3rds of the league.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

unfortunate portmanteau combining bortles - who i had on the brain - and gabbert. i can only say that i was running to make it from one workout to another when i posted. still, i'll absolutely concede that, because a couple of us in the LR do still SB&R, i'm certain you and others watch way more football than i do.

but i think what you'll see around most of the informed internet is this from five-thirty-eight. it's almost exclusively what i see, and if you point to articles running counter you have to skip over 4 or 5 to find that one. the large majority of those whose job it is to write or opine about football see this as i do, that kap is not on a team for non-football reasons. maybe you think those are still valid reasons. okay. but they're not performance-related.

emblematic of this is the fate of two 49ers who played on the same team at the same time, kap and aldon smith. the fact that smith is still in the NFL, welcomed back time and again, and kap is not, tells you most of what you need to know about how football views acceptable sins versus sins black players shouldn't commit. (yes, i know smith was cut, and suspended, but trump and football players can murder someone on 5th avenue and still be welcome in their jobs).

i've followed kaepernick's career since he was a freshman in college, and it's nothing new to hear about how he's not very good. chris ault gave him the only scholarship offer out of HS. he had cam newton matching (or beating) numbers the year cam newton was feted for all-galaxy numbers (while few noticed kap). i still don't know whether cam newton is truly the better QB of the two.

what is certainly true is that he's not a 4th receiver checkdown passer. maybe not a 3rd. he's not a fit for every team. if you only value a rivers or peyton manning QB pass kap by. if you like the idea of a vick or russell wilson QB kap is your guy. he's certainly your backup.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

let me put it this way. fitzpatrick, mccown, hackenberg, bryce petty, former jets (now bear) mark sanchez, geno smith, josh johnson (both giants now?), no quarterback the jets now have or did have over the past 3 seasons are as good as kaepernick, and all of them are in the league while kap is not.

if you want to argue that it's righteous that kap is out of the league because of the posture he struck last year as regards the national anthem, etc., okay. but it's just silly to argue that of all these journeymen (which is the nicest term i can use) QBs are in the league and kap is not because kap is just not as good as they are.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Let's not forget he was at least reported to have been offered a job and he turned it down. Perhaps, it wasn't the money he feels entitled to, but he was offered a job. I'm sure some of the gents you listed thought they deserved more money too, but they took the job.

His kneeling hurts his value as already hashed out. Superstars like Zeke get a break, the Lucky Whiteheads get the boot.

Does he have skills to play? Maybe on the right team with the right starting QB and offensive scheme. But there are only a couple teams that have QB that plays like him. Most offensive schemes rely on passers and not sure it makes sense for any team to have two offensive schemes for the starter and the back up.

There are just too many negatives to Kaepernick for teams to hire him, and yes one of them is the drama he created by kneeling.

I'm sure the owners and coaches have a better grasp on this than you and I. But I don't think the reason he is still a free agent is a simple or single issue.

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Suffer Well.

You are joking, right? Nearly all those guys you mentioned are back-ups who are being paid as a back-up. Kaep did not want back-up pay, which is a primary reason he is not in the league.

Not to mention, you have failed to justify how Kaep is "better" than any of those guys.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

can you tell me who is the NYJ starter? is he somebody not on this list?


he was rumored to have been offered a league minimum salary. what is the average (rather than minimum) backup QB salary?


the answer to that is subjective (he certainly has objective stats and history to justify his value, and these don't move you). whatever i write will simply generate another typical snarky "are you joking?" comment from you (not to worry! i love you for it). most of those who're writing professionally about football and who've written about this have given their well-reasoned arguments why they feel justified that he's better than a number of starters not to mention backups, and this hasn't convinced you, so i don't know why i'm going to write anything that would convince you.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I think it is going to be Hackenberg, but it really does not matter. The Jets have made it abundantly clear they are tanking this year to get the first pick in the draft. Many pundits already predict the Jets will have the worst offense of all time. Likely true. So, they are not in the Kaep game any more than the Packers or Patriots.


Average is just under $2M, but that is b/c there are a few that received start contracts and are now backups, which sways the average.

Brett Hundley (Packers) - $615,000
Jimmy Garoppolo (Patriots) - $820,000

Kaep couldn't hold either's jockstrap, especially Garoppolo.



It is subjective, but only to an extent, and you have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the NFL. (You claim Phillip Rivers is the best pocket passer in the NFL). So pardon me for summarily dismissing your unsupported assertion lacking any empirical evidence in support.

You cannot be taken seriously when all you say is, "he is better," and cannot articulate any factors supporting that assertion. If you were to proffer some support for your position, I may not agree with it, but at least you will have articulated a reason for your opinion.

You think he is being black balled for being outspoken. I think you are fabricating his skill set b/c you are a flaming liberal who loves his message. At this point, we are both being "proven" right by circumstantial evidence. But that's all we each have unless we articulate supporting evidence.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

i knew it was coming ;-)


actually, no. what i wrote is that "philip rivers may be the premier pocket quarterback in the league." the reason it's hard to rate quarterbacks is because so much depends on whether there's a running game (the chargers haven't had one for years, and i mean they are the worst running team over the past 4 or 5 years); and whether there's a line (the chargers' line has been injury snakebit over each of the past few years).

his receivers have a drop rate that's in the top third of the league. so, if you have no protection, and you have no run game, and your receivers can't hold the ball, and you throw deep more often than other QBs (which affects your completion percentage) you're not the QB picked by fantasy football fans. we'll see if rivers' bad year last year was an anomaly or not.


and i think you are devaluing his skillset because you're a closet core trumpist.

i'm glad we settled that!

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Well, you have earned it.


Oh, well, gee, the Chargers haven't had a running game for years. That explains it then!

Wait a minute. Wasn't there a team last year that actually had a WR filling in at RB almost the entire season? Now, maybe my memory is failing me, but that sounds familiar.

Who was that?

Hmmmmmm...

Sounds like ....

OH YEAH! I remember!




Now, who did those Green Bay fellows have at QB? What's that guy's name? Help me out here. It couldn't have been the "premier pocket passer in the league," because we know that is Phillip Rivers. Must have been some scrub with horrible numbers. What's that guy's name???



Wasn't there a team that lost its stud WR two years ago, then lost the #2, then lost the #3 and ended up signing a guy they previously let go and pulling guys off the practice squad? Hmmmmmm .... that sounds familiar ....

You know football. Help me out here.



Or, and I could just be spit balling here, I'm actually looking at his statistics ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

i think it's pretty clear, if statistics are your judge, that kap is safely ensconced in starter territory.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

How many players ended up kneeling during the anthem last year. IIRC it was a whole bunch. Yet Kaep is the only one that owners are blackballing over this? Sorry, I am just not buying that argument at all.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Colin Kaepernick QBR

2014 - 67.7
2015 - 46.5
2016 - 55.5

Good looking trend!


Stats from 2016 - 12 games played.

2241 yards, 16 TDs, 4 INTs, 7 Fumbles.


Yep, looks great!!!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I posted a link earlier in the thread that listed all the players who knelt with Kaep last year. Kaep is the only one not on a team this year.

Yep, that's the problem ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Don't overthink why Colin Kaepernick is still a free agent. Simply put, years have passed since he was an effective quarterback. He is 29 years old, has succeeded only in an unsustainable scheme and is part of a well-populated group of former starters who also remained available as the week began.
Filmmaker Spike Lee has raised the issue of whether social and cultural forces are at work here, calling it "fishy" that Kaepernick is unsigned. The implication, of course, is that teams are avoiding Kaepernick because of his decision to kneel last year during the national anthem.
To blame Kaepernick's unemployment on his protest is to misread the way NFL teams make personnel decisions.
While it would be naïve to think every owner and general manager approved of Kaepernick's protest, or that it never influenced their perception of him, it's important to understand priorities. Teams are swayed first by a player's potential (or lack thereof) to help them win. Protest or not, Kaepernick would be under contract now if he had played demonstrably better in recent years.

http://www.espn.com/...ormance-not-politics

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That link didn't prove your point. Everyone knows that ESPN is populated by a bunch of Trump ball-washers.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

QFT...

Protest or not, Kaepernick would be under contract now if he had played demonstrably better in recent years.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

as you yourself pointed out higher in this thread, rating ahead of bortles, tannehill, newton, wentz, fitzpatrick, keenum.

in fact, were i to pick a QB for the NYG, there is no one from starter to reserve on that team that i'd automatically pick above kap. and, yes, using stats, kap, bad team and all, had a higher QB rating that manning. this altho neither QB could get the 49ers to win.

i don't like kap's politics. i cringe every time he makes a statement. and kneels for the anthem. there is some common element between kap and i you could point to, but politics isn't it.

he is clearly - notwithstanding your attempts to conjure an advocate's argument - better than a third of the QBs in the league, maybe half or more if you count backups. my beef is that nobody in the NFL will face or admit the hard truth as to why he's not signed, except for the other players (and even then only the players who can afford to speak).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yeah, the only thing holding back the Giants is a decent QB ...







You both have white parents?








What do I win?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No, I really don't. You claim Kaep is a better QB than X, but give absolutely no support for that claim. I give you a stat showing X is better than Kaep. You then pick another QB, again without any support whatsoever. I give you another stat destroying your claim. You get frustrated, claim racism, blackballing, blah, blah, blah.



Yep. In the exact same manner Tim Tebow is being blackballed and Bob the Third is being blackballed and Tony Romo was blackballed and Vince Young was blackballed ...

It's really ok for you to finally admit this. Just say it.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What everyone is ignoring, is HE OPTED OUT OF HIS CONTRACT WITH THE 49's. He could still be playing making millions of dollars this year, but chose to opt out. His choice.

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I miss YaHey

A poor choice.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

i don't keep saying what you say i keep saying. i don't think you can say that one QB is definitely better than another because there are a lot of factors, such as, it's hard to compare 2 QBs when one has a better line, running game, receivers, or is on a team that plays a style that suits him.

but i am saying that kap is certainly not unfit to play in the NFL. he's got a better rating than at least a half dozen starters; he's got an outrageously good TD to INT ratio, he's at least russell wilson mobile which is a style of play a significant part of the league is treading toward. he's shown he's a winner when he has a team that's not dreadful.



you got that backward, slick. you're projecting now. i've been seeing a lot of projection lately as a defense mechanism. not healthy.[/quote]

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

How about you put up any empirical evidence to support your claims, then we can actually debate rather than me repeatedly making you look the fool.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

So, in your world, the existence of a quality QB is kinda like the existence of God. You cannot prove it with empiracle evidence - you simply believe or you don't.

Interesting ...

Be careful with that belief system. Belief in God is the reason Tim Tebow was blackballed by the NFL.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

is that what you believe? because it's not what i believe. i just don't think statistics paint a complete picture. do you think a running back's yards-per-carry have anything to do with the quality of his line; or the quality of his team's passing game? or is yards-per-carry an absolute arbiter of running back ability?

that said, statistics are of value inside the context of identifiable variables, such as the quality of the team. kap's passing stats are not among the league's best. they are also, however, better than a half-dozen starters; while on a terrible team; and those passing stats ignore his mobility (which is why cam newton's passing stats don't paint his entire picture, altho just about every one of cam's passing metrics are worse than kam's were).

so if you want to rely on stats, fine, the stats demonstrate - even amid being on a bad team - that he's better than a half-dozen starters or more (when you factor in his mobility). add to that his much better demonstrable stats when the team is better; and his ability to win when he's got a competitive team; and he's certainly a QB that shouldn't be constantly overlooked by team after team. NYJ is a perfect example but not the only example.

what's keeping him off teams is the fear owners have of a backlash from fans. i understand the owners' views. but the only thing the fans hate worse than not standing for the anthem, or choking dogs, or cold cocking your GF, is losing. accordingly, i suspect some team might in the end pick kap up after they get tired of losing. we'll see.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

LOL!!!

Kaepernick is synonymous with the read option, which, once upon a time, was going to revolutionize the game. Before that, it was the Wildcat. Before that, the run and shoot. Where are all those players who flourished in the fad of the day? Just like every other flash in the pan fad, the NFL figured out the read option and, when it did, Kaepernick and Bob the Third were done. Poof!

It's really that simple.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Slowman sounds like me four years ago. Drop back passers rule. Case closed.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I've been waiting for you ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

In my defense, I was swayed by his college performance. Saw more of it than I care to admit against my alma mater. He was amazing. But,as we have seen time after time in the NFL a college performance does not translate to NFL success.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

So were Tim Tebow, Bob the Third, Vince Young, and Jonny Football.

All great QBs blackballed by the NFL ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Exactly and many before them.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Well, they can't all be the best pocket passer in the NFL like Phillip Rivers ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Go Raiders!

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

actually, the pistol is how he came up, to the point where harbaugh basically carried over chris ault's offensive scheme to the 49ers. kelly took them to the spread. if you're looking for anything "synonymous" with kap it's the pistol. it's not just a formation; it's an offensive scheme.

you don't need to run an option offense to appreciate mobility. wilson, winston, newton, mariota, they and QBs like them are the future. i doubt many QBs with no mobility (e.g., rivers) are going to get drafted high anymore.

but you're again taking this off course. i'm not saying kap is a premier QB (altho i still think there's a chance he could develop into one). i'm saying he's much better than a lot of backups and some starters. he deserves to play based on ability. it's his politics rather than his ability that keeps him from getting a reasonable deal. you not acknowledging that doesn't keep it from being the truth (turn on the TV? read a newspaper?)

no more to be gained here. you may have the last word.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Read Option a 'flash in the pan' !? Why do you hate Army Football? We may not be big but we're slow ;-)

/r

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Steve

To succeed in the current NFL a you have to be first a great passer. Kaep is not a great passer.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

BEAT Army

You're kidding, right? He ran a read option out of the pistol formation. Like all other "novel" offenses before, it worked for about a year. Defenses shifted. Kaepernick started to get killed where, unlike in college, NFL linebackers are just as fast as Kaepernick.

You think Winston and Newton are the future, huh? Nope. Rodgers is the present and the future. Laser arm, pinpoint accuracy, with mobility to boot. This is a passing league and the rules keep moving in a direction to make it more so. Wilson is great because of his arm and his decision making, not his running ability. The League figured out Cam and killed him last year. He better learn to pass or hand the ball to his new RB or he will soon join "the revolutionaries" like Kaepernick, Vince Young, and Bob the Third.

Kaep deserves to be a backup and deserves backup pay. But he won't accept that. So, that's that.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ha! In all fairness, Army runs the option. There is no reading involved ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You're right, he's not. But he's a better passer than a fair number who currently have or are fighting for NFL jobs.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

So is Bob the Third. Is Bob being blackballed?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Just can't leave it alone, can you? 10th best career QB rating among active players. Seriously low INT rate. The guy can play. 's all I'm saying.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Highest fumble percentage as well. You forgot that.

But, he's just the lastest example of The Man keeping him down. Just like Tebow and Jonny Football before him! Shameful!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And they are all black. Wait...

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Blackballing Kaep is the worst thing the NFL has done since framing Aaron Hernandez in an effort to keep out all the Hispanics.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Where are you getting that? I can't find anything that suggests that. Take a step back and think about it. Kaep in the top ten of QB's??

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

And I am pretty sure that I am not in the NFL because I have some Italian blood. That's the only reason.

Oh and possibly that I never played a game of organized football.

But man was I ever a two hand touch legend!

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Whatever water boy.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

He's a legend in Slowman's mind. But, like the existence of God, his status as a top 10 QB cannot be proven. Therefore, you must go on faith.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

you guys are going to need some handi wipes when you get done with each other.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

not that this is going to change what or how you think about anything one iota, and it's certainly not going to change JSA's mind because he loves facts until he doesn't, but i believe what i wrote is the 10th highest QB (passer) rating among active players. i might be wrong about that. it might be 11th. shaub, kap, dalton, in pretty close to a dead heat for 9th thru 11th.

in addition to the link above you'll find the stats here. not hard to find. these stats are shown for 1500 attempts and over. if you add those not yet meeting that threshold then prescott, mariota, garoppolo, tyrod taylor jump over him. but if you go back to where kap was when he had 400 or 800 attempts he jumps back over several on this list, hence the 1500 threshold.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You aren't getting it. I think on purpose, but for the last time, Kaepernick doesn't have a job because:

A) He has been shitastic the last 2-3 years. That's what coaches and GM's look at. Not his glory days before defenses learned how to take care of him.

B) He won't get off his high horse and accept a back-up deal in an attempt to get back on the field and prove his worth.

C) He is not worth more than a back-up salary to teams because of his extra baggage. He also hasn't proven himself to be a good back-up QB like Shaun Hill or Mark Sanchez who have made careers out of it because they are good at being a player-coach-mentor or sorts.

Any other reasoning is looking to push a political agenda.

Also, all QB metrics deserve asterisks because there are so many variables that they don't necessarily account for. An example is Chad Pennington is the 14th ranked QB by passer rating all time. Does anybody sane think that he is even a top 50 QB of all time?

i and the rest of the world pretty much are getting it. read a newspaper. read what his fellow NFL players are saying.


right. yes. and yes, he's had a bad last couple of statistical years because he was on a team nobody could win on and he still put up better numbers than a lot of QBs (including maintaining a 2nd all time interception percentage, versus that INT machine jay cutler for example).

you're very right about stats. they don't tell the whole story. but then in this thread i'm asked for stats. so, don't ask for stats and then disregards the stats because you don't like the stats. his career passer rating sits about one third of the way down from the top among active QBs. these active QBs are mostly starters. is he aaron rodgers? no. but he's worth a bagful of QBs that have gotten signed ahead of him, based solely on performance (and using any metric you want, if metrics are what you want).

it's entirely, fully, totally a case of his taking a knee. that's 100 percent of why he's not signed. what we could be discussing is whether it's okay for owners to not sign him because of this. i think it's a fair discussion to have. but we couldn't really have that until we just agree to what most players in the NFL already know and publicly state.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's cute. You have yet to proffer any citations in support. Meanwhile, this thread is littered with citations to articles articulating the specific performance issues preventing him from being a starting QB and evidence he refuses to accept a backup role with backup salary.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

The two links you provided say that he is 17th. THIS link (which rates active passers) doesn't show him at all (maybe because he has no job presently), but nowhere do I see him at 10th or even 11th.

FWIW, I have no doubt that his controversial speech is contributing to his failure to land a job he thinks is worthy of him. However, his declining performance over the last three years (pretty dismal QB ratings), the fact that he doesn't fit most systems, and the fact that the systems he DOES fit pretty much already have their backups certainly play a much bigger role, as does the rumor that he reportedly turned down an offer because it didn't pay enough. If I were him, I'd take the lower pay, continue to speak out, and then let my playing do the talking for me. If he's really as good as you say, then he should develop quickly into a VERY valuable back up or a starter in no time. Assuming his stats get back to the level you seem to think he can attain, then nobody will care that he wants to kneel and the paycheck will be there.

In short, the speech is a contributor, but all of the guys you mention who were forgiven their sins were MUCH MUCH better at their respective positions than Kaep is at his. The reason they were forgiven has less to do with the type of "sin" and more to do with the fact that those guys produced.

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Thanks for addressing the entirety of my post....... oh wait.

His political stance has something to do with it. That's his baggage. He is not worth a starter's salary with his performance the last few years. He is hard to sign as a back up because of the excessive baggage he brings. He also refuses to sign as a back up because he thinks he is above it. Kind of ironic how somebody who complains about white privilege is too privileged to accept $900,000 a year for a second chance. It is nobody's fault but his own.

Pete Carroll: "He [Kaepernick] is a starter in this league. We have a starter, but he's a starter in this league and I can't imagine that somebody won't give him a chance to play.”

Doug Baldwin: "My original position was I thought that the situation last year with him taking a knee didn't have anything to do with it [Kaepernick not being signed]. After viewing what's going on, I've got to take that back. I definitely think that the league, the owners are trying to send a message of, 'stay in between the lines.' It's frustrating because you want to have guys who are willing to speak out about things that they believe in, whether you agree with it or not. But I think that's definitely playing a role now more so than I thought it was going to.”

Malcom Jenkins: "This is just some other teams being, quite honestly, cowards, to say that they're afraid of backlash to sign someone to make their team better when fans' input has never been in the equation when it comes to signing people in the past. It’s certain owners' way of making an example out of [Kaepernick] to discourage anybody else from doing what he did.”

Richard Sherman: "The funny thing about it, when you’re not being blackballed, you don’t have to say he’s not being blackballed. When football’s a safe game, you don’t have to say, ‘Football’s a safe game.’ It seems like the Commissioner always has to say things to justify something. But you didn’t even do this with Mike Vick. Vick came back and (eventually) got a $100 million deal. What is it about? It’s not about football or color. It’s about, ‘Boy, stay in your place.’ He played in Chip (Kelly)’s system last year and went 16-4 (TD-to-INT ratio) on a bad team. He played well because he’s a good football player. He may not be the best, but he’s better than a lot of these dudes starting. For you to say you have to check with sponsors and fans because this guy took a knee and made a statement? Now if you told me this guy threw eight pick-sixes last year and played like a bum, had no talent, that’s one thing. But Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Mallett or whoever is playing for the Jets right now – whoever is starting for the Jets is terrible – have jobs. You’re telling me fans would rather you lose and put a worse player out there because a guy took a stand? That’s where it’s so troublesome to me.

Michael Bennett: "I think it shows the racial divide in the league. There are (accused) rapists and drunk drivers in the league. But he’s somebody who didn’t do anything to anybody. But you hear owners say, ‘We have to ask our fan base first.’ But the Giants kept Josh Brown (amid a domestic violence issue). Ben Roethlisberger has been accused of rape twice. The organization didn’t turn their back on him. They gave him a contract extension. Kaepernick didn’t do anything. That’s why racism is the biggest issue in America.”

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

active players.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Would that be the same Pete Carroll who coaches the Seattle Seahawks who brought him in, but decided not to sign him? That Pete Carroll? Strong support for your position!



So, he originally agreed it was based on Kaep's performance. But now that it is trendy to blame "the man" his view has shifted. Yet, he never says Kaep has the talent to be in the League. Strong support!



No mention of Kaep's skills. No mention he is better than anyone on any team right now. Strong support!




Is this Richard Sherman who did not support Seattle signing Kaep? Or this this a different Richard Sherman?



Oh yes! Must be racism! I mean, look what the League did to Mike Vick, Ray Lewis, and Greg Hardy!

Where are the citations to articles from the neutral sports writers who claim he has the talent to be in the League?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

There's hardly any black players in the NFL.

The league is obviously racist.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Gee. Okay. 11th. No comment on the rest . . . this is not about his race. Period.

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

i suspect it's highly likely pete carroll would've signed him had the decision been his. likewise jim harbaugh who has a pretty good source he could ask about him. the problem is not the coaches.


just as i thought. very typical of you. you ask for citations, i provide citations, you decide these guys are all lying. you ask for stats, i provide stats, you dismiss stats.

if i provide you the citations you're asking for - neutral sports writers - you'll simply go cite by cite and make up your typical lawyerly bullshit excuses that essentially call them all liars or shills.

why can't you just man up, be a man, and admit what's going on? that the front office doesn't want to sign him and that's entirely why he's not signed? as everyone but you knows! and then you and i might be able to have a worthwhile discussion about the validity of that position, because it would be an interesting discussion. i can see both sides. i do think it exposes an inconsistency in both fan and front office behavior, but i think it's a worthwhile discussion.

unfortunately we can't get to that discussion because you've dug your heels on a factless, losing argument and, as typical, you remain the living emoji of a worthless time suck.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

thank you. out of 30 active QBs on that list. most of whom are starters. and he has that rating while playing for the last 2 of his 4 years on a team with just about the worst supporting cast in the NFL (it's hard to complete a forward pass when your team is bereft of talent on the other end of that pass).

i agree with you. in most cases the reason he's signed is not about race. it's about money. the owners are craven and he could flash a heil hitler sign during the anthem and they wouldn't care as long as the seats fill. they're worried that they'll lose revenue if they sign him.

the extant problem is why they will lose revenue if they sign him - that it's the fans who have the double standard. it's the fans who have no problem with a black player beating up his black GF while driving drunk, but don't let that black player stick his gloved fist in the air. john carlos and tommy smith started it. kap is continuing it. unfortunately kap is not a very good spokesman for his cause. but it's still a fan problem and we don't have an NFL owner the likes of branch rickey.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Nope. Carroll said no. His excuse was, he did not want to upset Russell Wilson. I suspect the true reason is because of race ...


Nope. You don't get to throw out a few quotes that do not support your position, then assert you have met the burden. You made the assertion. Thus, you have the burden of proof. You have to proffer some support for your claim regarding his skill set.

This is typical of your "debating" (I use that term lightly) style. Instead of putting in the time and effort to support your position, you throw up your hands and say nothing you produce will be good enough. There is little stronger evidence of failure to have support for one's position than taking the "nothing will be good enough for you" approach.

Between this tactic and your tactic of wholly ignoring significant portions of posts responsive to you, it is impossible to take you seriously.



I see exactly what is going on. It is the same thing that happened to Tebow and Bob the Third. Period. Hard stop. If you stopped allowing your radical left wing philosophy to control all aspects of your reasoning, you would see the same.




Ha! Ha! Ha! You are on a island in an ocean of facts contrary to your position, standing on a mound of coconuts cursing sky for being blue and the sun for being hot.

But, it is entertaining ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

There is finally some semblance of rational thought in this post. It is true - the owners are worried they'll lose revenue if they sign him. Because he sucks.

But, let's address your second point. Let's set aside his skillset for a moment and just discuss this. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, he is the 10th best QB in the League. Let's further assume the sole reason he is not signed is because of his conduct. So what? Why is that a problem?

Don't tell me it is racism. That is ridiculous. See, e.g., Mike Vick and Greg Hardy. See also, Tim Tebow and Jonny Football. If a player has the skillset, that player will be on an NFL team, regardless of his transgressions and/or race. So, this isn't about race.

That means it must be because he knelt during the National Anthem, he work a Castro shirt, he bashed the hell out of the US on the 4th of July, he railed against Trump but did not even bother to vote, and he wore socks with pig police officers on them. Why is it a problem to "blackball" him for that, assuming that is the reason?

The message is only as strong as the method. Assume I want to draw attention to child abuse in America. I cannot fathom anyone would find that to be anything other than a worthy cause. Assume I do this by going downtown and lighting American flags on fire. Would it get attention? You bet. When the cameras show up, I can explain that I am not bashing the US or soldiers, or anything other than trying to draw attention to a worthy cause. Would that excuse my method? Absolutely not. Period. Hard stop.

Kaep has done so many offensive things the message has been completely lost in the method. You don't get to do offensive acts to raise consciousness to a cause and not face the consequences of your conduct.

So, let's assume it is all about his protests. Why is that a problem, given these facts?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

[slowman]

it's entirely, fully, totally a case of his taking a knee. that's 100 percent of why he's not signed. what we could be discussing is whether it's okay for owners to not sign him because of this. i think it's a fair discussion to have. but we couldn't really have that until we just agree to what most players in the NFL already know and publicly state.[/quote]
How do you explain all the other players that took a knee and still have contracts?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Let's have a look at his average QB rating for the last 2 years compared to the average QB rating for the 30 starters. Do you have that metric? His QB rating in 2015 and 2016 was abysmal, and he fumbled . . . a lot.


And they'd be right. Why would they knowingly sign a guy that would cost them money and create controversy around the team that doesn't currently exist? They'll take that risk with Ray Lewis because the controversy is worth it when the asses are in the seats.


You're treating the fans like they're a monolithic block, when in fact they are a very diverse crowd. There are a LOT of fans that disagree with Kaepernick's chosen method of protest who WILL take their dollars elsewhere. I am certain some of them are raging racists. I'm equally certain some of them just disagree with his message. And, I am also equally sure that some of them don't have a problem with his message, but feel he disrespected military veterans everywhere and are voting with their pocketbooks . . . . which, by the way, they have every right to do. Why should the owners fund Kaep's platform? If he's THAT good, he'll find a team. It's just that in the last 3-4 years, he hasn't been that good. As others have said, he has ALL the down sides and very little of the up side. Business is business, and Kaep is bad business given his deteriorating talent, niche skillset, and penchant for pissing off a large group of the fan base.

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

I don't know what the big deal is. I can't imagine my employer would take issue with me wearing socks that show pigs dressed like cops.


Or Black Panther shirts



I'm guessing they're big fans of Castro.

I would imagine that stat is reflective of his dink ball passing game. Very minimal downfield game. Here is an important stat he is missing from:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/...ds_single_season.htm

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I'm guessing Slowman is slunk in a corner somewhere licking his wounds ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Watching Broncos V Bears game.

Glendon's first pass was the textbook definition of a wounded duck. Pick six by the Broncos.

Kaepernick could do the same.

I think Trubisky may be starting for the bears in game 1.

Come on, man! Don't be so hard on Glennon! What do you expect when you only commit to a 3 year, $45M contract with $3M signing bonus and $18.5M guaranteed?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Just STFU until February

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Late to the party on this one but here's the deal, as I see it: Kaep isn't starter material, he had a stellar breakout season (as many promising QB's do) then was markedly worse in 2014 and worse than that in 2015. Bad Y/att, DVOA, too many fumbles...Is he better than many backups, and maybe even some starters on crap teams? Sure. But here's the other issue: middling QB's and backup QB's are not allowed to be problem children. They're not the ones who get away with off-field shit. Mike Vick was a superstar and it was a huge, huge deal when he got that starting spot in Philly after three years in prison (I think it was three). And he was a legit star. The QB sets the tone for the franchise, and if Kaep isn't a STAR QB no one is signing on to him being an average-at-best QB (or backup) when he has this baggage. It's not racist, it's common sense. If Kaep were better he'd be a starter somewhere. If Ray Rice had been three years younger he'd have been on a team after his shit. Hell look at Barry Bonds: still one of the ten best hitters in baseball his final year but no team was touching him with the Balco stuff going on so he was ostensibly blackballed. It happens, and for reasons other than 'owners are racist'.

Maybe next time you think Kaep should've been signed by Miami you might want to think about the Cuban population there, and whether they'd really want their shit replacement QB to be a Castro supporter. It was a total non-starter for the Dolphins, and for most other teams the negatives outweigh any positives of him.