did you imagine someone here did this?

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

What I'm imagining is that in some parallel universe, you have the courage to answer a short set of simple questions.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

But your argument is pointless, at least within the context of arguing with Lorenzo and Veganerd, neither or which are dumb nor are they applying cognitive dissonance.

You compared this "scientific consensus" to another and asked why not this but that.

What you are talking about is a scientific classification, which with regard to this debate, is pretty much semantic. Debating whether or not humans are causing the Earth to warm is about whether or not humans are actually doing something to cause it to warm, not quibbling over whether or not to use the word "warm" or "heat."

Now if I didn't know better, I might think you were going to attempt an equivocation argument. "Is it okay to kill a cow?" "Yes." "What about grandma?" "No." Why not?" "Because she's a human." "Okay, but aren't zygotes also humans?......GOTCHA!"

Regardless of what anyone says, a zygote is a zygote. Its replicating tissue with DNA formed from a human sperm and a human egg, and if all goes well at some point will develop organs, brain waves, have a personality, cry, poop, grow old, etc. etc.

That's what it is. Calling it human, or a fetus, or a baby, or peanut butter doesn't change anything regardless of who calls it that.


I'm pretty sure a convincing argument for you doesn't exist in this case. =)

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

strange tactic you have there. ignoring a lot of questions throughout the discussion then when someone finally gets frusturated and stops answering your questions then you call them a coward for not answering your questions. are you cognizant of this?

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I'm still waiting for you to answer when do YOU, veganerd, THINK life begins. You have successfully avoided answering this by throwing ambiguous answers around.

i have answered this by stating my position. (despite you not actually ever asking this question before now. you asked "when does a zygote become a human") you just don't seem to like it. i cant give you a definitive point as it will be arbitrary.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

What the eff is your answer then? If you have answered it clearly, please direct me to the post you made answering it.

I haven't asked myself the question? To me, the science is pretty clear that a human life begins at conception.

To the abortion debate, I think it should be legal, especially in the cases of rape, incest, or the mothers life is in danger. I do think that women and/or their partners should be able to make their own decisions based on their own circumstances. Like others have stated on here, it is the taking of a human life. If you have to dance around in your head to approve of abortions so be it. While I personally haven't been placed in the situation of having to make that call, I would strongly push for adoption over abortion, but I do believe that option should be available.

the answer is quoted above.

my answer is definitive as the one you would give for the day someone becomes old. there is no clear line because its so complicated it can be definied in a number of ways. im not saying no one else cant pick a time if they want, they just need to know its arbitrary and debatable.

its not a cop out, its not lazy, its the most intellectually honest answer i can give.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I don't think you are human.

70.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

are you using human as an adjective or a noun

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Is a zygote alive? What does science say?

Is a zygote human? What does science say?

Is a zygote a discrete being, distinct from it's mother? What does science say?

Does the zygote develop according to internal direction? What does science say?

Is the zygote an organism? What does science say?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

you present these like they like they are clear cut questions worthy of a definitive yes/no - but they are not.
"Alive"? Yes science would say a zygote is living tissue, yes for sure; but alive as in alert and as a person, not so much. What do you mean by 'alive'? For example, if a pregnant woman and her husband survived a car crash, how many survived the accident?

Yes there is. Unless you want to make pregnancy a punishment for fornication than I don't really see your point.

nothing a few fake doctors notes cant cure.

you present these like they like they are clear cut questions worthy of a definitive yes/no - but they are not.

That's the thing. They are all easily answered with a definitive yes or no, and there is absolutely no ambiguity in regard to any of them. The science is crystal clear and undisputed for everyone of those questions. It isn't that there isn't a clear cut scientific answer to each of those questions- it's that you have a predetermined bias against concluding that the zygote is person, or alive and alert, so you want to evade them.

I'm not asking if the zygote or the embryo or the fetus or the baby is alive and alert or if it's a person. I'm asking very simple, very straightforward, scientifically verifiable questions.


"Alive"? Yes science would say a zygote is living tissue, yes for sure; but alive as in alert and as a person, not so much. What do you mean by 'alive'?

You're not embarrassed by this? You're going to ask me what I mean by alive? Seriously?

Just say yes, and move on to the next questions, OK? We agree that the zygote is alive, as a matter of science, right? Good deal. Only four more questions.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Is a zygote alive? What does science say?

yes

Is a zygote human? What does science say?

zygotes from humans have human dna

Is a zygote a discrete being, distinct from it's mother? What does science say?


it depends on who you ask. im not sure there is agreement on this.



Does the zygote develop according to internal direction? What does science say?


at least partially, but there are still unknowns about external factors. we know that external factors can change the development (fertality treatments have an effect on the incidence of multiple births) perhaps the environment in the womb plays a role in the development as well.


Is the zygote an organism? What does science say?


it depends on the way you define organism. some say yes, others say no.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

nonsense. you clealry do not understand much about biology.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

if you are defining 'alive' as meaning not dead or inanimate tissue, then yes a zygote is alive. However, it is not a typical use of the term 'alive' . . . for example, I wouldn't claim that my thumb is alive, but according to your definition, my thumb is alive.

Is a zygote alive? What does science say?
yes

Wonder of wonders.


Is a zygote human? What does science say?
zygotes from humans have human dna

That's another yes, right?


Is a zygote a discrete being, distinct from it's mother? What does science say?
it depends on who you ask. im not sure there is agreement on this.

Yes there is. It's not a difficult question.


Does the zygote develop according to internal direction? What does science say?
at least partially, but there are still unknowns about external factors. we know that external factors can change the development (fertality treatments have an effect on the incidence of multiple births) perhaps the environment in the womb plays a role in the development as well.

The fact that it's influenced by its environment is superfluous to the question. We are all influenced by our environment. Does it develop according to its internal direction or not?



Is the zygote an organism? What does science say?
it depends on the way you define organism. some say yes, others say no.

Weird how you can't even stick with your own previous answers. It's almost like you have some agenda or something.

These questions are not difficult, and they're not controversial. Your unwillingness to answer them in an honest and straightforward manner is telling. I'm done with you here.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

if you are defining 'alive' as meaning not dead or inanimate tissue, then yes a zygote is alive. However, it is not a typical use of the term 'alive' . . . for example, I wouldn't claim that my thumb is alive, but according to your definition, my thumb is alive.

<sigh>

As self evidently silly as that is, it is the reason there are four more questions for you to answer.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

the dunning keuger effect is in full swing here. vitus doesnt seem to know how much he doesnt know about biology which may be why he thinks these are simple yes or no questions.

of course he can find out by reading. i even provided a link from a science textbook writer explaining why there is no agreement on these questions but it was ignored. he seems to have lifted all his questions from pro-life websites who list the same questions and also think they are easily answered gotcha questons.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Is your thumb alive?

You got four questions to go, friend.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Even more silly , by his own rules that he set up a placenta is also a discrete human being.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!