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One for the pro choice crowd...
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Does your moral compass waver at all depending on the situation?

I read some click bait story about a professional woman having a night out with female friends and the topic turned to whether an unplanned pregnancy would lead one to have an abortion. Her blog goes that all the other ladies said no and she figured some were lying because of a perceived stigma. She admitted that she would and the looks she claimed she received told the true story.

The blogger was a 30 something professional with a self-proclaimed reasonable level of success. She was in a committed relationship but both were not ready for children and liked their freedom etc. Despite acknowledging that many people claim they aren't ready but then cope if the time comes, she was adamant she wasn't ready.

Whilst I believe there are many situations where the choice is understandable, I saw nothing in her story that could argue it would be anything other than selfish and immoral. To me, at that age, if you're educated and financially stable, to not take adequate precautions (on multiple levels if required) is beginning to show a genuine contempt for life. Not sure I can fully reconcile my position (on her) versus say naïve teenagers but that was what I took away from reading her story.

Wondering whether others that consider themselves pro choice see any difference between this story versus teenage pregnancies or worse (such as rape)? Interested in reading alternative views.
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
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How very republican of you to pass judgment on someone's personal choices that are non of your business.

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
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Of course, those liberal minded, progressive democrats wouldn't pass judgement on people. You know, like conservative religious folk who oppose something like gay marriage. I mean their opinion should affect you right?

I didn't realise one can't have an opinion on what was a journalistic, public opinion piece. Me bad.

ISIS beheading people in Syria, mass shootings in the USA or people eating dog in Asia are none of my business either. They still affect my moral compass, so I'll express an opinion on it.
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone here knows I'm not prochouce but pro abortion. I think calling it choice is silly but ok. I still support her choicenof aboring a fetus but do in this case think it isn't the greater good and 100% selfish. But I also think if it were the case where she got pregnant her situation might change. My wife was ready but I wasn't st 30 when we found out. And once it happened my acceptance of the situation instantly changed.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see why that should bother me at all.

Does in vitro fertilization bother you just as much as abortion?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
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RE: "To me, at that age, if you're educated and financially stable, to not take adequate precautions (on multiple levels if required) is beginning to show a genuine contempt for life"

The fact that you jumped to the "contempt for life" conclusion shows me you had an agenda that was narrow in focus because you wanted one and only one answer. If you drive drunk do you have a contempt for life, drinking problem, making an error in judgement none of the above or all of the above?

"The political lesson of Watergate is this: Never again must America allow an arrogant, elite guard of political adolescents to by-pass the regular party organization and dictate the terms of a national election." Gerald R. Ford

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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, not one iota of difference. Do you really think folks here haven't thought this through? This story is pretty basic stuff. I don't believe that a fertilized egg has any rights, and I place no moral judgment on what my friends who have had in-vitro fertilization do with their zygotes.
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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I don't believe that a fertilized egg has any rights

Until when?









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Good question! That isn't any aspect in the example. How about for you?
Last edited by: oldandslow: Mar 12, 17 14:58
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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I think from the point of conception.

Question remains. You were a fertilized egg once. In a very real sense, you're still a fertilized egg. You speak of fertilized eggs contemptuously. At what point, in your opinion, do they obtain rights?

Related but distinct question: At what point, in your opinion, do they obtain value?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
I think from the point of conception.

Question remains. You were a fertilized egg once. In a very real sense, you're still a fertilized egg. You speak of fertilized eggs contemptuously. At what point, in your opinion, do they obtain rights?

Related but distinct question: At what point, in your opinion, do they obtain value?

certainky not before there is any conciousness.

how do you feel about in vitro fertilization




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Define "consciousness."

Then, is the point at which a being has "rights" the same point at which a being has value?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Define "consciousness."

Then, is the point at which a being has "rights" the same point at which a being has value?



in this context i wouls define it as an awareness of stimuli.

value is subjective.

abortion at 1 week of pregnancy vs successful ivf procedure. which one is worse in your opinion?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Last edited by: veganerd: Mar 12, 17 15:07
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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in vitro?
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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in this context i wouls define it as am awareness of stimuli.

lol. Nice try, if you're even cognizant of the attempt.

Define "awareness."


value is subjective.

Yeah, aren't they all. So what? Answer the question.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
in this context i wouls define it as am awareness of stimuli.

lol. Nice try, if you're even cognizant of the attempt.

Define "awareness."


value is subjective.

Yeah, aren't they all. So what? Answer the question.

awareness is perception.

i did answer the question. value is subjective, so there is no tidy answer to your question.


you arent answering my question.

successful vitro vs abortion after 1 week. which is worse?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
I don't believe that a fertilized egg has any rights

Until when?

25 weeks when regular brainwaves are present. You can pull the plug on an adult when regular brain waves aren't present. Same with a fetus.

If it would end the argument I am perfectly willing to drop it to 20 or 22 weeks just to error on the side of caution.

We are so fucked.
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
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How very republican of you to pass judgment on someone's personal choices that are none of your business.

There are lots of things people make personal choices about that don't have a direct impact on my life. If a couple makes a "personal choice" to abort a child, and the child can't speak for themselves, is it okay to speak out on that child's behalf or is it only the business of the couple?




You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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A fetus who does not yet have brain waves is not in the same situation as an adult human being who doesn't exhibit brain activity, though, is it?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
I don't believe that a fertilized egg has any rights

Until when?


25 weeks when regular brainwaves are present. You can pull the plug on an adult when regular brain waves aren't present. Same with a fetus.

If it would end the argument I am perfectly willing to drop it to 20 or 22 weeks just to error on the side of caution.

I see, so you're relying on what current technology can measure.
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
Define "consciousness."

Then, is the point at which a being has "rights" the same point at which a being has value?



in this context i wouls define it as an awareness of stimuli.

value is subjective.

abortion at 1 week of pregnancy vs successful ivf procedure. which one is worse in your opinion?

Single cell organisms exhibit awareness of stimuli.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]
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How very liberal of you to assume all republicans pass judgment on the choices another makes regarding abortions...
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
I don't believe that a fertilized egg has any rights

Until when?

25 weeks when regular brainwaves are present. You can pull the plug on an adult when regular brain waves aren't present. Same with a fetus.

If it would end the argument I am perfectly willing to drop it to 20 or 22 weeks just to error on the side of caution.

this is the same position ive taken in many discussion. it never seems to end the argument. they often fall back on an outcome bias argument. "you used to be a fetus! or thank your mom for being pro life!"




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
How very republican of you to pass judgment on someone's personal choices that are none of your business.

There are lots of things people make personal choices about that don't have a direct impact on my life. If a couple makes a "personal choice" to abort a child, and the child can't speak for themselves, is it okay to speak out on that child's behalf or is it only the business of the couple?



Your business ends at the end of you nose. If it has no impact on your life, it doesn't concern you. If you have sperm in the game, then it does.

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...
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Re: One for the pro choice crowd... [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
Define "consciousness."

Then, is the point at which a being has "rights" the same point at which a being has value?



in this context i wouls define it as an awareness of stimuli.

value is subjective.

abortion at 1 week of pregnancy vs successful ivf procedure. which one is worse in your opinion?

Single cell organisms exhibit awareness of stimuli.

such as?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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