What is? I am using YOUR definition. If you don't like it, fabricate a new definition.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

 
If it's not arguable (perhaps), then there would never be a debate on this.

Ha ha! That's cute!

You're not a denier of basic biology, are you?

At the point of conception, a unique human organism (otherwise know as a human being, or a human life) comes into existence. Like I said, that's not really arguable. It's just basic science. If you believe that there should be no debate about whether or not it should be allowable to end a unique human life, welcome aboard. But that doesn't seem to be your position.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That's simply a matter of science

No, "Human life" is not "Individual human life". There is no question that human life exists at the moment of conception. That is not to say that an indivual human life exists at that point...and yes it is a matter of science and science has not answered that question yet.

When a human being/human life/human organism becomes a person is perhaps more arguable. Perhaps.

And that is the point I'm making. Scientifically speaking individual human life is not the same as human life.

~Matt

That's a pretty MASSIVE difference!!!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Are you drunk, or just stoned? What, exactly, do you not comprehend in my statement?

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I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...

At the point of conception, a unique human organism (otherwise know as a human being, or a human life) comes into existence. Like I said, that's not really arguable. It's just basic science.

I think if you did some looking around you'd find that in science "Human life" and "Individual human life" are used differently, at least that is my understanding. Human life defines life that is human or associated only with humans, DNA, Human cells, etc etc. Individual Human life tends to be used in discussions surrounding person hood, consciousness and individual human rights.

~Matt

It has nothing to do with my comprehension. It is what your words actually say. The fact that you lack the mental capacity to comprehend what your own written words actually say and the asinine position they express, comes of no surprise.

Your express position is that another couple's abortion has no direct impact on Sanuk, so he should mind his business. Well, the same can be said of a sexual assault upon which Sanuk comes upon. So, using your logic, he should not intervene in any manner. If you wish to clarify your position, you should do so. But, the words say what they say and that cannot be debated. Therefore, you either lack the ability to express yourself through written word or you truly are a despicable person who feels a person should not intervene in any matter than does not directly impact the person.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What if the woman makes the choice on her own?

She must have had a good reason not to have your baby, and, quite frankly, I don't blame her.

What are you talking about?

You said abortion was only the business of a man if their sperm was involved so I asked about women who make the choice on their own. The pro-choice crowd typically supports a woman's right to choose, not a couple's right.

So, my question is, are you pro-choice if the woman can choose without any input from the man?

excepting that it will probably become a separate sentient human being,

That's a pretty MASSIVE difference!!!

I think this is an interesting perspective. It applies a value to potential. I'm not making a judgement call I just think it's an interesting note that for the most part there is a very high value placed on potential in this case.

In some cases we don't put a whole lot of value on potential and even in some cases it's regarded negatively if we do place value on potential. If for instance we were able test children at birth and could determine ones ability to learn, say a more sophisticated IQ test, I think there would be significant push back to placing more value on the child with more potential then the one with less potential. We in fact see this in our spending on severely handicapped children. Spending much more on children that will struggle to ever become independent then we would on a very gifted child.

So in the case of abortion we place far higher value on positive potential then we do in the case of intelligence and potential to benefit society.

Again, not a judgement or even an argument, just what I would consider to be an interesting observation.

~Matt

I agree with your observation regarding valuing potential, but question whether we are truly valuing "potential" here. Are we?

A group of developing skin cells only has the potential to become skin. A zygote has the potential to become a birthed baby. So, we are talking about two different entities completely rather than assigning value to "potential" of the cell grouping, aren't we?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

so you didnt get the joke after all.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

no its not. you abort a fetus, not a possibility of a human. you have no way of knowing if the aborted fetus would have ever survived or aborted on its own.

if you want to talk about the possibility of life as an argument against abortion then you commit a holocaust every time you masturbate. monster!

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

W.T.F.

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I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...

I am not pro-choice, I am anti human procreation. Why would anyone, in their right mind and good conscious, create a being who knows it is going to die? Having children is a selfish act of cowardice.

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I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...

The reason I'm pro-choice is because I don't think a woman should be forced to be a human incubator for 9 months for a baby she doesn't want.
An analogy I use is organ donation. Lets say someone needs a kidney transplant and you are the only tissue match they can find. The patient will die without a kidney and you have two. You might choose to donate a kidney and save someone's life or you might decide that you don't want to. It is your choice and nobody would force you to donate one of your kidneys.
As far as a woman's vs baby's rights. Roe V Wade divided pregnancy into trimesters. In the first trimester the mother's rights are paramount so abortion cannot be denied to her. In the middle trimester the rights of mother and child can be balanced. In the last trimester the foetus' rights can be considered above the mother's so more regulations can be made.

You are not very good at this. Of course we know what happens to a fetus when not aborted. We have over 7.4 billion examples currently walking around.

More to the point - it is inconceivable to me that a vegan could be "pro-choice."

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You words, buddy. Now, you are at a loss to explain yourself as you have backed yourself into a morally deplorable corner.

Ok, let me help you out here. There are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people who believe hunting for sport is morally deplorable and are vociferously vocal in opposition to same. However, it is not illegal and it does not directly impact these people. Therefore, you believe these people should just shut the fuck up and mind their own business, right?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Aren't there ways to prevent the pregnancy?


The woman (along with her partner) created the fetus to be aborted. You did not create the patient with the failing kidney. Not even remotely analogous.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Holy shit. I finally figured out who you are. Welcome back, doc. We missed you.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Do you care to share what mind altering substances you have consumed this evening?

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I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...

no, you dont. you know one possible outcome and are incorrectly assuming that it is the only outcome. you would be correct only if 100% of pregnancies resulted in live births if not aborted by choice.

we know thats not even close to reality.


heres how a vegan can be peo choice in a super dumbed down argument: a cow demonstrably suffers more than a 12 week old fetus. about 90% of abortions happen before the 13th week..

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

if the patient was their adult child?

regardless, it doesnt matter. if the maker was under obligation to save its creation....well you can see where that argument is going.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

How do you know that?

I simply cannot comprehend the mental gymnastics required to maintain these two moral philosophies at the same time.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I am not pro-choice, I am anti human procreation. Why would anyone, in their right mind and good conscious, create a being who knows it is going to die? Having children is a selfish act of cowardice.


Now I understand your signature line...

i base that on what we know about the nervous systems of a 12 week old fetus as well as those of a cow.

there is no mental gymnastics required, the position, as stated, is consistent.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!