The Vittoria Rubino Pro tires (factory tires) are really shitty tires and the Gatorskins are probably a little bit better.

I immediately replaced mine before I even rode on them. I don't even bother with Gatorskins anymore, I ride Schwalbe One's or GP4000's. I've had more pinch flats with Gatorskins than I care to remember

No matter what tire you are using your effort in a training ride should be based on power, not on speed. Therefore if you head out to do a 3 hour zone 2 ride, you just won't go as far on gatorskins as on good tires - it should have absolutely no affect on how hard you are pedaling. 3 hours at 180 W (or whatever) is the same, no mater what your speed is. If you go 20 watts higher just because you are riding on slow tires and you are trying to make up the speed difference, you are doing it wrong.

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I have no speed limiter. I just prefer to use more power to go the same speed on other tires.

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Fair point there. I prefer the flat protection of the Gatorskins and due to the increased rolling resistance, I have to work harder in my group rides to stay at the front.

If I'm riding alone, I don't really care about speed. I only track power.

The Gators do make you work harder to attain the same speeds as other tires but it all depends on what you are trying to measure and the workout you want to do. Does that make sense or am I incorrect?

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I see. I read it to mean that you only used it on the trainer indoors once you get 400-500 miles. Makes total sense now and I do the same with my race tires.

The bolded above is my rationale for riding gatorskins on most of my training rides.

Although, I have a set of older, shallow racing wheels with latex and 4000s if I want to ride with some fast dudes or go for a PR day on Strava. On those days, I love the ride so much better, that soon enough I'll likely rotate those gatorskins onto my trainer bike and ride 4000s outdoors all the time.

or ride better tires and attack off the front on the group ride. more challenging to be the rabbit :)

This is precisely what I felt when I had been on them less than a minute. They "felt" slower. I kept going to see if that would change, and despite being on a relatively flat ride (north Houston), I kept feeling that I was putting way too much effort in to sustain even 20mph.

After a while I went back in and cranked the PSI up to 120 and there was a noticeable decrease in effort required on a short follow-up ride. Streets where I'm at are pretty clean (new residential developments), so flats are few and far between. I'll definitely be investing in some faster tires prior to the races. Thanks for the advice all.

Gatorskins are crap. Yes, they slow you down. But, I never had a flat until until I got Gatorskins. After three flats, I took those things off and went with Conti GP 4000s.

slow tires in training while in theory don't make you work harder, if you live somewhere rolling they make every uphill longer. At the bottom of every hill you have lower terminal velocity and if there is an uphill, you have less linear momentum thrusting you up part of that hill. So even though your legs only put out the same watts, you might just coast less and take slighlty longer to do your ride. Add that up over an entire week of riding and you have some 'extra' training load. It's not a ton, but depending on how many hours you ride with slow tires it can add up.

I think is incredibly dumb and makes no sense.

Regardless, GP4000s of the same size with a lower PSI offers less Crr and a better ride quality. I have a part time riding buddy that swears by Gatorskins yet he's flatted 3x with me to my 0, yes I remind him every time why he's riding such a POS tire! FWIW I'm on GP4k with latex tubes.

Your LBS story reminds me when I went to the closest LBS to get a latex tube. I had to hear from the owner that latex tubes are only good if doing big mountain rides and that they are useless here in flat FL (yet they have them on the shelf). I said "thank you for that advise" and promptly left to go to another LBS to buy said tube!

Looking forward to your "what's the best race day tire" thread, lol...

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Am I correct in thinking the continental 4 seasons are just as slow as the gator skins?

Pretty nice comparison below

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...ental-gatorskin-2015

+1. BryanD's comment is nonsensical.

Explain?

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Why? For most of your training, you should be working really hard and trying to increase your FTP. I don't understand why people train with aero wheels, racing tires, and aero helmets.

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I'm training on Shwalbe durano's, I have a power meter so i don't give a shit about speed in training and i'm not working harder, i just don't want to change tubes on the side of the highway.

The ideal thing is to have two sets of wheels, bombproof trainers and some racing wheels.

You are only working harder if you are a) riding for longer (time, not distance) b) pushing more power or c) both. The type of tires you use has no bearing on the foregoing. Why don't you set your brakes to rub? That makes just as much sense.

If I want to ride a 60 mile loop on Gatorskins, then I will have to ride for more time than if I had GP4000s due to crr loss.

Assuming identical power for both scenarios, the only thing that changes is time.

If I wanted to do each loop in equal time, I would have to use more power to go the same speed with the Gatorskins. If this is incorrect, then tell me what I'm not understanding.

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Your problem is that you are using distance as the output to your equation. Stop. Distance doesn't matter. Time and power and heart rate and not having shitty tires -- those all matter in training.

Just reread Jeffp's post.

I think the problem is that we are all defining the workout differently. For some speed is important, therefore they would choose a faster tire. For those with power meters, we just care about time spent at power. If it's a distance workout, then you have to rider longer to get the distance.

I think I mistakenly assumed that because the rolling resistance is so bad, I would have to work harder in my workouts. That's only true for my group rides because I have to increase power to match the speeds of other riders.

For the other rides at Zone 2-3 riding, it's just time spent at power. Therefore, maybe I need 2 sets of tires haha! Gators for the group rides and GP4000s for regular riding.

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Gatorskins make me work "longer". I have a 60mi. loop, regardless of tires. I don't have a 58mi. loop for Gatorskin rides.

In practice, I have Gatorskins on my tri bike's training wheels (race wheels are Supersonics + latex), which levels my speed to be closer to my road bike (GP4000s IIs).

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From a practical perspective, I am not going to go and add extra distance to my bike commute or my 90K loop from home. The distance is the distance so if I am high Crr tires, it's just going to be more time out there, or the same time at higher power. Basically more Kilojoules by the time I get home. I get what you are saying but in most practical scenarios, the high Crr tires will result in slightly more work. And then there is the scenario of riding with others. With high Crr tires you ride at higher power to keep up with your group...it's not like you are going to look at your powermeter and say, "Hey, I am riding with low Crr tires and I better go harder since I am working too easy....you just sit on the wheel....or you are on high Crr tires and hanging on for dear life, but the speed of the group is the speed of the group"

My practical world observation is that higher Crr tires invariably results in more work even though you are theoretically following your power target.

Race scenario is different. You're already max'd out and want to get done the course as quickly as possible.