Yes, they are slowing you down, yes that amount is typical, no it won't help your endurance if you ride on these awful things, and yes you should take them back to the shop. Wiggle and Probikekit et al are selling two packs of Continental 4000s II tires for $70 right now. There is absolutely no justification for buying these items at your local bike shop, or listening to any advice they give you if this is the kind of advice they give.

Did the shop know you had an upcoming race?

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They are definitely slow tires but I guess it can't hurt to train in them...damn sure wouldn't use them in a race!! I'm curious as to why your LBS recommended those tires? For comparison, I race and train on the same tires (Conti 4000II and/or Conti TT). New tires always for an IM! Once I get 400-500 miles on a tire, it is then a trainer tire only.

It was discussed in conversation when I picked the bike up, but that was it.

Yes the Gatorskins are a slower tire than the GP4000s. What many will do is use the Gatorskins for a training tire and the 4000s for a race tire. If 2 sets of tires aren't in your budget or you don't want to switch them off your wheels, just go with the GP4000s moving forward.

Yes.

Search the forums - you could not pick a slower tire.

The only reason to use them is if you can't change a flat and the illusion of protection offers you peace of mind for a big race.

I would be changing tires every 2-3 weeks in the summer. That is just crazy. I put 1000s of miles on a tire and never have problems.

Gatorskins are the worst possible choice. I wouldn't even ride them on training rides.

As others have said, GP4000S's are a very good option, with high levels of flat protection (I use them to commute through industrial areas every day) and among the best rolling resistance.

If you'd like to learn about latex tubes and sealant, there are some good threads on here. And lastly, don't listen to your bike store.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Let me try that again. Once I get 400-500 RACE miles on a tire then it becomes a trainer tire until it is nearly shredded and I am getting frequent flats. I.e., I won't race on a tire that has more than 500 miles on it...with the exception of non-consequential local sprints. If I'm paying money to enter and travel to a HIM/IM, I'm not going with tires that have any significant wear.

The tech is probably in his AG!

Slowing you down 1-1.5 MPH? That seems high, especially over regular stock tires. Not like he's switching from highly rated race tires to gatorskins. Definitely a significant time savings to be had, but it's surprising that it'd be that big.

If you're hovering around the 20 MPH mark, putting on gatorskins is going to add nearly 25-30 minutes to an Ironman ride? (Doing the math in my head so may be off)

lol, that would be funny if that was true. Or maybe they are having an internal 'punking' contest. One of the shop hands bet another lunch if he could get Gatorksins out the door on the bike.

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I train on Gatorskins and regular training wheels. My view on training is that I should have equipment that makes me work harder so that when I switch to my race wheels and race tires I will go a lot faster from the harder efforts on Gatorskins. They are great training tires.

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that is all kinds of messed up. just because they make you slower, they do not make you train harder. your legs are putting out the watts, the tires take some, the air takes some. your legs don't make extra watts because of the tire you use.

is it Tom A that says, "life is too short to use crappy rubber"?

my view on training is that it should simulate as closely as possible the race conditions, ie do in practice what you want to do in a race(gearing,cadence, speed) riding something that makes you go 1/4 as fast as you would in a race makes for shorter distance training rides but offers no simulation of how the race will "feel"

Same here, I have ran the Gatorskin on my training wheels for 2 years now, 1 flat only.
Great training tire. GP4000s for racing for sure is the way to go.

It's not messed up at all. The rolling resistance of the Gatorskins consumes a lot more watts than race tires. Gatorskins take around 20W a tire to roll.

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I run Gatorskins and conti 4000s. I actually do not see a whole lot of difference in puncture flat protection because the 4000s are amazingly robust especially given their racy nature. I would give a slight edge to the Gatorskins in preventing sidewall cuts though and they are more likely to stop a bigger piece of glass, metal or a thorn. Gatorskins are definitely slower although it is hard for me to tell how much since I run them on non aero training wheels. Gatorskins are not as supple as the 4000s but I tend to think people over estimate how slow they are. The do not totally suck, they are just not race tires.

Gatorskins do have some things going for them as a training tire. They last a lot longer (around twice as long, which if you are riding 5-6000 miles + per year really adds up over time). I find they handle a bit better when it is cold or wet. And, while the 4000s are great against basic punctures, there are situations where a Gatorskin is much more robust.

I do tend to reach for the Gatorskins mostly when I need the psychological comfort of not wanting to even think about getting a flat (never races, but, for example, those cold winter rides where stopping equals death ;-)

If I'm going slower, then I have to increase power to go faster. If I put faster tires on, I'll go faster on less power.

I disagree 100% with your view on training. I'm not riding my 808 and Super 9 with Turbo Cottons and Latex Tubes in training. I don't need to "simulate" racing during a training ride by using my racing gear. I train hard and race harder. If you need to "feel" how a race might be in training, you need to train harder.

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I'm normally not one to complain about tiny aero gains on the bike, as I can never podium in an overall WTC branded event in my AG, but I will say that earlier in my cycling days, I heard about these "gatorskin" tires, and after having experienced a bad slew of flats from thorns, I promptly put them on my P2C.


Gotta admit though, wow I noticed right away that my bike just felt slower. I know it wasn't some -in-my-head effect, because at the time I knew nothing about the weight of Gatorskins nor their effect on speed, but compared to my not-pricey Rubino Pros, I could tell immediately that something was different and clunkier feeling, even if was <1mph difference.

Rode those for a while, which worked well in training, and even raced a few times with 'em (Andy Potts!) until I got onto the ST.com and people were bemoaning their slowness.

Swapped 'em back to Conti GP4000s, and it's back to that fast feeling bike. I think it's real - don't use 'em for racing.

19.3W of rolling resistance per tire. http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...ental-gatorskin-2015

It has a real and great effect on training. I have to use a bit more power on my group rides and my legs thank me on race day.

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If you are using gatorskins on group rides you will have to work harder to keep up with the group == more training effort

If you are using gatorskins on solo training rides you will travel less distance for the same amount of work == same training effect

Both of you are right depending on the situation you use them in.

This might be opening up a can of worms, but does anyone else notice that it seems easier to put out high watts when you are also going faster? Of course I've got no data to back this up. Maybe it's just more fun to hammer at 45-50km/hr with the wind at your back than to struggle going 22km/hr into a headwind. If so, makes sense to train on somewhat fast gear.

Might have something to with smaller momentum changes when moving fast as you don't have to bring the bike back up to speed every pedal stroke.

It also depends on if you are training with time at power or distance traveled. I'm more concerned with time at different levels of FTP than how far I go. It depends on the workout though.

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and if you increase power on faster tires you also go faster. do you have some magical speed limiter you cannot exceed like H20 and his 30 mph?

they just make riding less enjoyable and there is no reason to do that

yes I use slower tires in training, ie 4000S's, than I do in racing