I agree.

There is a special place in hell for course cutters, dopers still get into heaven, via purgatory of course.. (-;

I disagree. Course cutters will be caught since they cannot back of their performance.
Dopers will most likely not be caught, and even if they are using doping, especially testosterone/steroids the effect will last for years.

Not the way I have it

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=5080332#5080332

Purgatory is merely a Penalty Box, Hell is the ETERNAL DQ

But it IS a work in progress [notice that "People Who Make up Charity Scams" is a recent addition], and Roger Goodell may have just distinguished himself from the "Commissioner" Umbrella into Al Davis territory

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Depends on where you're looking

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few BOP newbie runners in their local 5Ks who are just GASSED and say "I'm beat ... I know a shortcut"

In fact, a 10K i've been doing annually for a few years, offers just that opportunity

http://www.usatf.org/.../view.asp?rID=403101

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I'm fine with doping if you're playing with the big boys but not if you're ag

I guess you are saying that because you are an ag-er and big boys dope doesn't affect you. But a big boy would equally be pissed at a doper if he/she looses a big time paycheck, endorsements, chances to be on the podium etc because of a doper. Canadian Dylan Armstrong lost bronze in shot put in Beijing due to a, I think, Russian doper. He got his medal years later when the Russian was busted but he probably lost big buck for being 4th instead of 3rd.

99.9% chance they're all juiced to the gills. I see pro athletes as victims, they need to do it to go 7 50. It's either you've been caught or you know how to cycle a stack imo just look at the positive tests it's always for nandralone or something long acting only noobs are getting caught. the difference is that an ag doesn't need to do it to play

Shoot the course cutters when they cut the course. Shoot the dopers when they cross the line.

2 birds, 1 stone (2 cheaters in 1 race)


to me, they are dangerously the same. Both are premeditated cheats, trying to defraud the rest of us of our just desserts. At least the doper (may) suffer health consequences down the track.....Lyle Alzedo?

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I'm 99.9% sure that at the very least a significant minority of pro athletes are clean. Maybe if you're looking at World and Olympic finalists in an event like the 100m then you might be 90-something percent, but not triathletes.

I'm still at a loss as to how course cutting is still possible, given electronic timing at most races, and that probably 80% of athletes are wearing some sort of GPS tracking.

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http://www.twhatley.com

What's to say that course cutters don't dope too?

That's the thing about dopers - the overwhelming majority of them don't get caught.

Cheating is cheating. Neither deserve any respect.

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My Blog

No real way to know imho. I am always amazed at people who are flat out saying that they think that all the pros dope. How can you stay in the sport when you are that disillusioned?
I'd rather run the chance of being a little naive and believe that there is at least a majority (including Hawaii champions) that doesn't use prohibited substances.

How about a frontpage poll:

I'd personally be in the >10% (<=25%) camp. With many grey area cases with dodgy TUEs. But again: No real way to know (Based on the reasoned assumption that tests can be beat)

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

I think a more interesting analysis would be the % of pros that dope compared to the % of ag Kona qualifiers that dope. If it's anything like cycling you'd see a % of ag or local amateurs competing at a high level that would surprise you.

Recent occurrences seem to suggest cheaters 'lose' their timing chip at some point of the race, and seem to wear watches without gps functionality.

 

How about a frontpage poll:



I'd say > 10% for all participants.
> 25% for the podium.

That is my wishful conservative estimate which implies that the podium can be clean.

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My Blog

Dopers are far,far worse than course cutters, bib switchers, etc. Course cutters are "amateur" cheats at best. They usually have a short term goal and think of the easiest solution to achieve that goal. No real effort involved, just some planning and execution. They are not risking life and limb.

Dopers however, they are the "professional" cheats. They are in it for the long haul. They are already doped to the gills with legal supplements. They have tried everything over the counter, from GNC, etc. trying to get that edge. They already have so many chemicals going in and out of their bodies. They are doped to the gill gear wise as well. Always have to have the latest bike, wheels, etc in order to have that edge. They are no different than the common crack or meth addict, just no rotting teeth or favors for drugs. They are the ones meeting their "dealer" in a back alley or anti aging clinic and buying illegal substances. They are the ones sticking themselves with a needle every day. Got to have that fix. It doesn't matter what it is doing to their body. Their whole life is a lie and they will do anything to hide that fact and conceal it.

The big races seem to have that covered; mats at the farthest point on each lap etc but smaller events are still catching up. A Half I did the other week only took splits as you passed near the finish on the bike & run on each lap. On the run course there was a point during the 3 laps where a 30m hop through woods would have cut well over half a mile off.

Obviously I didn't bother, as a sub 1:15 Half Marathon might have looked suspect :-)

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29 years and counting

But if you magically lose your chip - the mats don't matter to you. Looks like you only get DQ'd if someone kicks up a fuss ?

Course cutters are much worse. My problem with course cutting besides the obvious of it being cheating is that the person cutting the course could inadvertently cause other individuals to do the same either by accident or on purpose. When someone dopes they do it most likely on their own in the secrecy of their homes but course cutters just promote cheating on the course. It takes away the integrity of the distance and the accomplishments.

A problem with some local races is by the time the results can be really analyzed the cheater is long gone with a potential podium picture for Facebook, trophy and fake bragging rights. And then the cheater just plays stupid and nothing comes of it.

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Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right!

I've read this a few times, and I have no idea what you're trying to say. I suspect I agree with you, but honestly I have no clue, especially re your first sentence.

You should be in politics or marketing! ;)

If you're going to cut the course - go big I say....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/london-marathon/10780357/London-Marathon-fresh-cheating-claims-against-miracle-runner.html

So here's another question - do you think the incidence of cheaters in the amateur ranks has increased since the creation of social media? Go back 20 years, and does anyone really care about your age group win in buttholeville sprint tri? The thing is, no one really cares now either, but it's very easy to 'like' a cheaters ill gotten podium photo and create the illusion for these deluded individuals that people are impressed by their fake athletic accomplishments.

Definitely. We are in the "all about me" era. Selfies, round white stickers on the back of cars, etc. Which reminds me, I just took my morning #2. I better go to facebook and post about it complete with pictures. I am so important and awesome that someone will want to know about it!

(I don't know how to use the pink font yet)