Having done both IM branded and non-branded events I can tell you that in my opinion what IM brings to the table is marginal at best. Don't get me wrong, I think IM events are awesome and well put together but I have also heard that B2B, MiTitanium, Redman, and Vineman (this one I know first hand) are awesome also. As a matter of fact the only real difference that I saw between Vineman and an IM was the full backpack and the finisher cap at the end. Besides that I can't think of one thing that I would say IM does better. A freaking cheap backpack and a $15 hat are not worth the $350 difference in registration fee. IMHO. I think what drives the price is that people are crazy for the name "Ironman". The brand has inmense value for some people and that keeps prices up.

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http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

I'm waiting for the M-dot-branded "pilot" relief tubes to be sold at the expo. Maybe with a "Texas" catheter. And I suppose Lake Flaccid will want some kind of modesty cover on the bottle.

I say everybody here buy the guy who got DQ'd a beer until he's even.

Then we'll re-fill the bottles and mail them back to M-Dot.

I feel the same way about Land Rover versus Honda, especially since the latter is vastly more reliable. But on the other hand, I would not say that Land Rover buyers are "out to lunch". To each his own, but some folks are so bitter about WTC that they demean others who choose differently. Really, I wouldn't pay $1 to do a color run, but tens of thousands of people happily spend their money and enjoy the hell out of it. They received value.

I've read good things about 3 of the 4 races you mentioned. However, Redman may be well organized but suffers from poor location. E.g., unless you are close to OKC would you consider this a destination event? It's not even worth pursuing for ITU Worlds because that means TWO trips to nowhere! Michigan Titanium is in the same boat. You should add Savageman though. That one is definitely on my bucket list.

What is PE?

All kidding aside, I've done IMLP twice, and had a top knotch experience both times. Staying a week up there during IM week is absolute heaven. My family has gone back to LP a few times during non-IM week and it's really nice (it was hockey week last time we went).

I've done a lot of IM branded races, along with Rev3, Challenge, HITS, etc. and IM (especially LP) is at the top of the list as far as my experiences have gone (though I've had a great/top knotch time at Challenge/Rev3 too, but it's a totally different vibe).

Maybe I'll do IMLP in another year or two. I'm mentally still suffering from the last one, but the overall experience up there was excellent and worth the big price tag.

Now, if they could do a Color IMLP I'd be back in a heartbeat! <hugely pink>

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Prostate exam?

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Private Equity. It's a pleasant way of saying 'rich dudes'.

Ahh. thank you.

I did IMLP this year and am signed up for next year. I resent the monopolistic aspects of WTC, but clearly am helping perpetuate it by being a paying customer. As far as the value proposition is concerned, I will say:

- Pre-race logistics (check-in, briefing, racking, etc.) were all fine
- Race experience was top notch. Mostly, this is due to the exceptional volunteer mobilization, but clearly WTC gets credit for the organization aspect. I especially appreciated that the on-course and transition volunteers were attune to athlete needs (wetsuit rippers, aid station personnel, transition helpers, bike rackers, etc.)
- The finish line volunteers were super attentive. Great people
- Post race food was ok. It could have been a little healthier, but I was happy to have it.
- I enjoyed the free massage. I got one over on WTC by getting more than my allotted 10 minutes.
- Where is the beer tent? Always like to get a couple free cold ones after a marathon or tri.
- Swag is garbage (t-shirt, hat, medal, etc.). This is clearly a place where WTC could leave a better impression by offering a few quality items. I know plenty of merch is for sale, but c'mon. People will better advertise your brand if you actually give them something worth wearing.
- Free breakfast was good. Happy to have it.

As far as the cost of this event, an equally frustrating aspect is the selection of a community with limited lodging available, which leads to price gouging. I stayed in a place that usually goes for $80 per night, was four times that, and I was lucky to have it. Oh, well--nobody will ever do anything about this aspect.

All together, the value was not too bad. I credit the 2000+ volunteers for that, as opposed to WTC or the local inn keepers.

I hope they didn't rip your wetsuit!!!! :-)

The non-PC term is "wetsuit stripper" but the PC term is "wetsuit peeler".

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

What iron distance race(s) would you recommend?

I actually think PE was for Providence Equity which is the company that owns WTC.

I'm personally more annoyed at the hotels that jack up their rates than WTC for gradually increasing Fees over time. Thinking they can keep their fees the same over a decade is silly. Let's also not forget they pay the pros more now these days...which is still a joke no matter how you look at it.

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Titanium faces rock!

This, unless your name was that we will not mention before he got busted.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I'm going to create my own race and it will have hookers and blackjack. Oh forget the race part.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Add a craps table and I am in

I did IMLP 10 times between 1999 and 2009 and then once more in 2013. In the end, what got me to stop doing IMLP was the cost of hotels. It got to the point that for almost the same price I could travel to Europe and do a race there vs driving to LP and paying $399 per nite minimum 5 nite stay. At Whistler, I can stay 100m - 500m from the finish line for $255 for a one bedroom suite with a kitchenette at a 4 star hotel. That is less than $200 USD, so around half the price of LP for way better accommodations. As some of you can guess, I don't mind paying WTC for races which are great quality overall. In my book the housing should not cost me more than the race itself. In my value scheme, races are high value in my life. As a former servicemen, I can sleep in a sleeping bag in a trench with something covered my head, so I HATE paying for overpriced accommodations.

That is true. The Texas 70.3 in Galveston was a fairly popular 70.3 race for WTC. It never sold out until the year Mr. Armstrong did it (2012 I think). Late registrations soared after it was announced Lance was going to race (500-600 more racers than previous year). Race has sold out every year since.

Lance really moved the needle there but he was certainly an anomaly. He's the most popular endurance athlete on the planet and had about 1,000,000x the star power of any other pro triathlete. It was a circus in Galveston that weekend.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I just looked and was surprised to see Redman limits their full distance participation to 200 and only 150 next year due to hosting long course Nat's. Maybe since both the bike and run courses are loops it "feels" bigger?

Same with the Florida 70.3 when it moved to a new venue. There were locals who had no intention of racing until he announced he was going. Some people raced that weren't even planning to do a 70.3 in that timeframe. But again, EVERYBODY knew who he is. With the exception of a few names that stick in my head (mostly the hot women), I don't know who any racers are beyond the two I actually know and train with occasionally. I couldn't pick them out of a line up, and I certainly don't pick my races based on that.

I will admit, I think I could id Starky, but only because he looks like Buffalo Bill from silence of the lambs.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

This is too much for me and I'm a pretty liberal spender. It's not just the absolute amount of money, but also the risk I can't race. I signed up to two races at the end of last year and now am injured I'm probably out of both which is $1300+ out of my pocket. I like Ironman races but will probably just sign up to something last minute (if anything's open and I'm in shape) and spend the rest of the time doing local races

Then why don't you just set up a tent off one of the trails in Lake Placid and stay for free?

I was just referring to the principle of value for lodging. My family is not interested in camping at an IM venue, although I have done plenty of races solo where I do that. At an IM, where my family is coming we won't camp. And as much as I love LP, I have done it enough times. I'll probably race the Alpe d'Huez tri before I come back to LP. I love LP, but life is too short to be paying 4x over price lodgings. I'll overpay for accommodations at a new venue, but not an old one given that at an old venue that I have been to, the tourism content is low and I am just there to race. I go back to LP every year for our Epicman training event and that's when I get to re connect with the community, pay fair lodging and "race/train" on the course for nothing.

I totally agree with you on cost and it's not only IMLP that has high hotel costs. I honestly can't afford to do a race today that would necessitate a 5 night hotel room cost. Especially if then you're also going to have to eat most of your meals at restaurants.

I haven't done a WTC Ironman in 5 years - I've done a few 70.3s since they are pretty easy to get into and out of. And the last Ironman race I did was IM Canada and I stayed in the campground to avoid $250 x 5 nights hotel costs.

The hyperbole here astounds me. One has to search pretty far to find a hotel in LP that has a 5 night min. Most are 3 nights with the exception of a few high-end places that have 4. You guys that are blowing smoke about 5 night mins with 3x increases in nightly rate are 'the sky is falling' types.

There are condos, homes and hotels that are really reasonable. It might take 2-3 more clicks on the computer to find them. Sheesh.