You may as well say I'd be interested to see how she'd go in a game of soccer?

She races draft legal, she does it well, and makes more coin currently than any other draft legal female.

Are there even any non-draft races left at the Olympic distance.....didn't they all fold? (I'm being sarcastic that last bit...please don't answer it)

Ah, good point about the puncture. It's been so long since either of them have had a mechanical that I forgot that aspect. Now I do remember when Alistair got a flat in Ponteverdre (?) one year and had some help getting back to the front (and the win!) It will be interesting to watch Graves and see if the swim improves. Thanks for the updates on Alistair and what goes on in Leeds.....I was disappointed to not see his name on the start list for Cape Town......

Great win for Jonny! Good to see him back on the top of the podium - he looked really strong and motivated all day.

She races draft legal triathlon. She has won 7 WTS in a row. She is a complete triathlete because she wins triathlons.

I'm not sure if it is because they don't have the bike skills, or if it's because they are scared to commit to the cause and work together to keep away from everyone. I know Norden had a lot to do with the groups coming together in Auckland, but I saw a front group that was disorganized and completely unwilling to risk blowing up for a shot at the win. It is possible that True and Zaferes were intentionally slowing the group down to allow Gwen to stay close, but I would have expected someone in that lead group to take a chance for the win. Contrasting that with the men's race, I saw a group of guys working their balls off at the front trying to keep Mola behind them. And almost everyone in the front group was rewarded for it, we even got an American in the top 10!

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if I'm the US coach that's my strategy EVERY time. Girls who make the lead group do NO work. Get yelled at by the other girls? All they have to say is "I'm under no obligation to work, our yellow jersey is back in the peloton". Meanwhile back in the peloton Gwen can be all like "I'm under no obligation to work, because I have two teammates in the break, and also I'm the best runner to boot."

But as we get closer to Olympic qualification time, personal goals outweigh the team goals, and this goes away. Especially for the men.

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Yeah you could be right. Whether it was lack of talent or deliberate tactics to give Gwen the race, it made for a pretty uninspiring contest.

The men's race was the complete opposite. Gomez and Jonny charging at the front and helping to drag that lead pack along, before a final showdown on the run. Awesome. Just like always with those guys and Alistair when he's fit.

I really don't think there are any team goals (National teams) right now either.

Maybe courtesy but no goal or obligation.

I think she gave notice in this race. She hung onto that lead group while other girls were dropping off. Not sure she could have done that last year. Only getting better on the bike! That should be a scary thought...

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I doubt they are doing anything like that to help Gwen. I just do not think it is that much of a team sport. Especially for both of them, I mean Sarah True was second in the championship last year to Gwen, I am sure she would rather have those places switched. Zaferes now has finished second, both times to Gwen. I think both of them are doing everything for themselves to win.

Seriously, can you imagine being one of the people pushing the pace looking back and seeing people be spit out the back, but Jorgensen staying stuck.

There's a 0% chance that True and Zafares decided to soft pedal to let Gwen catch up. They had every incentive to keep her as far back as possible but failed in that mission.

Can you please stop embarrassing yourself by knocking Gwen because you personally don't think that she is as "complete" as some men who appear to be more "complete" to you? Could you find a more meaningless criteria by which to judge ITU triathletes? The goal is to win the race -- NOT to be the most "complete" (whatever that means) athlete in the eyes of random age groupers. Characterizing her as a "decent" swimmer and "not a bad" cyclist is simply laughable. Do you have any idea how hard it was to stay with the lead group on that course and still be able to run the way she did?. She did it with the 4th fastest bike split too! What do you call the women with the 10th or 15th fastest bike splits? Mere hacks? There is no way she could have ridden like that on that course last year. Notice was served to the rest of the women that Gwen is in even better shape than last year.

She knows her strengths and knows how best to maximize them. Despite your deepest wishes, taking big pulls on the bike would probably be the single most stupid thing she could do in a draft legal ITU race.

Certainly a lot easier if you are the only one not putting you nose in the wind for 40k.
Brownlee on the other hand puts it all out there on the bike and still posts the fastest run. Gomez too although he couldn't quite match JB this time. Those two would never contemplate a 40k wheel suck.
I don't mean to knock her particularly. It's just all this Gwensanity nonsense and hype I find OTT, but hey whatever floats ya boat.

He's not embarrassing himself. What he says is correct.

The 'complete' triathlete would be in the lead bunch in the swim - Gwen never is - would also be able to take turns pulling the train along - Gwen never does. She had a fast bike split because she got dragged across the gap by Norden. She is of course the best runner without a doubt. But then again she's almost certainly the freshest as by any measure she doesn't do a lot of work on the bike. And whilst the front girls would be pushing big watts, she gets to save what? 30% or so by sitting.

This works for her right now as the other girls aren't smashing the bike together and so making it even harder to bridge that gap which will always be there simply because they swim better.

The above isn't knocking America's new Tri sweetheart, it's just telling it like it is.

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Gwen is fairly similar to Mola. Granted Mola has to come off the front pack into T2 to challenge and Gwen can probably start 60 seconds down, but neither, if it's an Olympic, is likely to be front pack coming out of the swim and neither is able to lead the chasing pack on the bike.

When people talk about being 'complete' they refer to dominating the bike pack, keeping the chain going and taking massive turns (in addition to swimming front pack and challenging on the run). Jorgenson and Mola don't, and can't do that.

For Gwen that's fine because she doesn't have the equivalent of AB,JB and JG to worry about (Non Stanford could potentially threaten).

In terms of Rio, assuming they are fully fit AB,JB and JG are pretty much guaranteed to finish in the top 6 (and probably higher). However Mola is either going to be in the top 3 or below 10th and Gwen is either going to be 1 or below 10th. Rio's hills could obliterate her if people get away on the swim.

I only saw a bit of the women's race but this year is all but over. Gwen was in the first pack and had a little dig into T2 to get an nice position. Unless there is a miracle you can't see she being challenged.

I was surprised how early some of the women started to get their feet out of their shoes.

JB and Gomez are very strong. I think we have to take Gomez at face value. That he has been a little ill but I'm sure will be firing on all pistons for the key races. Enough said on Mola once he has to work on the bike his run suffers. He will not be a factor on the Rio course unless his swim improves.

She wasn't it the first pack out of the water or on the bike - only got there as Norden pushed hard and pulled the second pack up.

I'm not saying she isn't an excellent triathlete as she clearly is - I'm saying that she isn't as complete an athlete as some others but because she runs so strongly she gets the job done which is the aim of the game.

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Ok thanks. Perhaps I should of known that before commenting!

Any idea what happen to Norden?

Mola can be blisteringly fast but never after a hard bike as we saw yesterday and last year. And as Rio 2016 is much tougher than Auckland (by my calculation, it has 80% more vertical climbing per lap), I don't think he has any chance of a top 3, or probably a top 10. As things stand, so long as the Brownlees and Gomez have their usual swim (and Varga is pretty much guaranteed to take it out very fast indeed) and unless the heat is unseasonably tropical, I'm struggling to think of anyone who has a chance for the podium. If the course was more like London 2012, then things would be potentially far more open and Mola might be in with a shout (as could Murray) but the non-wetsuit ocean swim and 92 meters of vertical ascent within the first 3K of the bike will make a brutal selection. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the Brownlees and Gomez reaching T2 a minute or more ahead of anyone else.

I think the women could learn from watching professional road racing. If Gwen is in the second pack, as she was yesterday, make her do the chasing! Drop behind her and make her lead. I find the passivity of the other women frustrating sometimes because they know they can't beat her on the run and yet play into her hands time and again. The only time she has ever been outsplit was by Non Stanford in Madrid 2013 after having to ride the Madrid hill at her own pace.

She pulled out early in the run. Not sure why - commentators suggested an injury.

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exactly this!!

I can't believe they just let her sit there for so long. Irony blame her as that's exsctly the right tactic, but those girls are dumb. Girls like Andrea Hewitt must be spewing knowing she's in the first group out of the swim and ahead of Gwen but that Gwen will be brought back up by stupid tactics from the other girls. None of them can run faster than her everything else being equal - so make it unequal!!

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This year, that has been no Helen Jenkins, Non Stanford, Vicky Holland and yesterday, no Jodie Stimpson either. Nicola Spirig is also absent, as was Emma Jackson. Gwen Jorgenen is clearly a better runner than all of these people but a race with them in it would make for more intelligent pack racing. At Cape Town last year, Helen J, Jodie and Vicky H combined with Lucy Hall to ensure the front pack stayed away, which is why Gwen only came 3rd, so it can be done. But yesterday's front pack was very disappointing.

In the women's races, there are people like Carolina Routier who take a great pride in winning the swim and seem to be content with the television time it brings, rather than racing (the big exception is Lucy Hall who really is a powerful cyclist...)

Actually Gwen came out of the water on Andrea's feet just one second down so they both started in the second pack. While so many seem to be grumbling about Gwen "sucking wheel" if you watch carefully she spends most of her time either with a large gap back or displaced way to the side of anyone ahead of her getting way less benefit from draft than her position within the group would imply. After watching her climb in Auckland my feeling is that anyone thinking that the hills in Rio will shred her legs are in for a rude awakening. Keep in mind she is one of the least experienced gals at the front of this field. Andrea Hewitt, Emma Moffatt and most of the other top girls have been in the sport most of their lives while Gwen just started triathlon in 2010. Her future looks so bright.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I'd second this. Saying Gwen isn't the "complete" triathlete isn't criticizing her, it's just an observation of fact. She's clearly a very very talented athlete, but she simply isn't the "complete" triathlete, yet.

Look at it this way, I would say that the Brownlees and Gomez are complete triathletes. If you took the entire ITU field and ran a 1500m swim, they would be in the top 5, if you ran a 40K time trial, they would be in the top 5, and if you ran a 10K road race, they would be in the top 5. Where as compared to Gwen, she would be in the top 20 on the swim, top 20 on the bike, but would win the 10K road race by minutes.

Again, this isn't criticism or having go at her, it's just an observation of where her talents lie (relative to her competitors) across the three disciplines.

You seem to be forgetting that they aren't under team orders. If you have a strong biker, or two, in the 2nd pack then they are racing for themselves and will try to bike up to the lead group. However, you are also correct that the lead pack rarely seems, unlike the men, to work together and stay away. Generally speaking in my mind the women's racing is a lot more timid than the mens with more competitors sitting in the pack or hanging to race for 15th!