Jack.....I think he does apron 335w when he goes 1:10.

On a side note, last year (on 2 occasions) TD did 3x5mi @5.6w/kg, then did 2x Bigalow in both 1:10 and 1:11.....5.8w/kg

Well, #2 on strava behind Sanders for that Lemmon KOM is Cameron Cogburn, who just so happens to have the fastest time up Mt. Washington if you exclude Tyler Hamilton and Tom Danielson's times during their doping heydays. Mt. Washington is very weather dependent, though. As, of course, is Lemmon. Point being, I guess, is the person LS knocked out of KOM has some pretty solid climbing credentials to his name.

Interesting by your math how LS is about 10 minutes off of world class abilities over about 1 hour 30 min, on both the bike and run.

IIRC he is within 10 minutes of Mosop's 30km world record (he did 1:36:XX on the road) Mosop did 1:26 or so on the track, that was a few years ago though. Of course on the bike there is that whole w/kg thing.

Maurice.

First, thank you to Paul Thomas for starting this entertaining thread and providing some background info on LS's Mt Lemmon rides.

Barrie, thanks for your blow by blow account of his Sunday ride up Lemmon...some great insights on how it unfolded! Would love to see the video...any idea when/where it will be shown?

The openness you and Lionel have about sharing his training/racing plans, goals, and expectations is great and I'm sure will help attract more interest and fans.

Keep up the great work and best wishes to you both for a successful year!

Mike

we all respect paul, i think it s pointless to talk about the best climber in the world when that person as been a convicted doper. He isn't a contender, he is a cheater. End of it.....

making comparison between a clean athlete and convicted doper. lets keep ''accomplishement'' in perspective...

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Again, no. His best climbing days were when he was doped....and since then he has been, at best, an above average pro. You can put whatever qualifiers you want on it,but he simply isn't what you claim he is.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The comparison I am making is not to make TD look like a speed demon or saint. My point is that LS is a badass......pressing his times against one of the best pure climbers.

In terms of TD being one of the best pure climbers on the planet, I am right and you are wrong: simple as that. I am not his agent, coach or anything similar. I know what world class performances are like on Lemmon or just stats. Regardless or his past or present he can ride a bike up a sustained hill better than nearly anyone living.

I guess the rest of us will just have to use actual race results to evaluate his climbing skills.....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Lionel will get one more ride up Mt Lemmon before he leaves to go home at the end of this camp. The ride WILL NOT be a Time Trial, but rather a good hard workout. We live in Oro Valley (25 miles from Mt Lemmon) so he will ride 25 miles over to the mountain, 26+ miles up the mountain doing bigger interval repeats, then work on his weak bike descending skills on the way back down the mountain.

I have appreciated all the much more experienced debate that has occurred around Mt Lemmon. Obviously its not the SUPER BOWL or the Olympics. Simply a wonderful mountain and we have selected an arbitrary spot at the top of the ski hill. We are well aware that the great riders over the years go up to much shorter spots on the mountains for practical reasons (not needing van support, cooler conditions etc). Because Lionel's first ever ride 4 years ago, was to the top of the SKI HILL, its become his own spot to ride to. We have certainly been very educated about the number of great riders who have riden up the mountain to different key locations up the mountain and their amazing times.

Lionel has an engine that is 9.9/10 and a current skill set of 6/10. If the time was up to the top of the mountain and back down to mile zero, he wouldn't be a factor in the discussion. Working on his downhill skills will be a priority of his last ride on the mountain this week. We both have a tremendous respect and admiration for the talents, and work ethic and skills it takes to be a great bike rider. At this point in his career, neither of us would consider Lionel a bike rider. But more accurately, a monster engine, who can inefficiently push huge power outputs for long periods of time, and loves to hurt. WIth some help from the cycling community over the next few years, Lionel hopes to become a more complete rider who's bike handling skills, and descending, equal his ability to ride up the side of a mountain.

Thanks to those who have shown some interest in Lionel and if in a tiny way, he can help make people of all ages and levels get on their bikes and test themselves on their "own mountain" then he has actually done something of value.

As an aside. Tonight Lionel and I were a part of a panel discussion at Trisport Bike Shop in Tucson. About 175 people showed up, and they were more amazed about his positive attitude and great appreciation for having the chance to scratch at the surface of the top long distance triathletes in the world then the cared about his 354 watt, 1hr34 min+ ride up Mt Lemmon. My family back in Ontario Canada are freezing in another blizzard right now, so we feel blessed that we are able to ride in our shorts, outside, anywhere warm.

Keep training and find your own mountain to climb in 2015.

Thomas I was ready to take you as an expert until you said this. Only 5 people on the planet! Come on you know that is nonsense. When someone sets a record on a climb in the off season during training but gets dropped in the Tours and Classics on the a regular basis are they really one of the top 6 climbers in the world!

PS As per the other comments. I've seen looks of athletes leave their best session in training. I'm not saying that all winter work should be slow and steady but stress free/consistent is surely more important than chasing records every day on a climb.

This is a big wankfest for LS this thread. I had never heard of him in Australia. Will be keen to see how he comes through the ranks based on the apparent following he has

That is ok that you do not take me as an expert. You are probably right and my intuition is 100%.......both on Sanders and TD.

What you may not be able to read between the lines is that Danielson does not produce in races as he can on a stand alone effort on a mtn. If you have the capabilities to reach out to Horner, Lance, or whomever, do so and they will tell you the exact same thing. If not, then come out to Tucson, sit at the base of Lemmon til TD comes rolling by. Follow him up the mtn then kindly ask to see his Garmin at the top. Do this, and you will start to think I amy be an expert!

PS All this discussion aside good luck to LS and I hope he has a great season

PPS How to I reply to a thread rather than reply to a post in the thread?

Well, there is Google. He's the wanker that came out of the water 38th at IM 70.3 Worlds and rode and ran his way to 4th matching the bike/run split of Gomez.... ahead of all the Aussies. :)

I think there was some similar awe at how Rinny yet again mowed down the field at Kona like they were all out for a Sat afternoon jog and she was the only one actually racing.

People like to be inspired by amazing performances and have someone to cheer for. Someone young working their way up the ranks. Frodeno is almost equally impressive and seems to have a great personality, but he's already won a gold medal and is towards the end of his career. Slightly less inspiring.

It's inspiring because of his ability to raise the bar. That hasn't happened for a while since maybe the Crowie/Macca era.

I think the Aussie are miffed because one of their bros hasn't won it in 3 years and there's a lot of great athletes, but no clear super studs on the horizon.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

You sound like his ex-wife..."go race like you train, Tom!!"

So how does TD's time up Lemmon compare to Nibali's, Quintana's, Froome's, or Contador's?

Let us know when there is an actual race up Lemmon. In the meantime, it is just training.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I was fortunate to be on the mountain that day. About 18 miles up, Coach Barrie at a checkpoint says "you got a horse behind you." I'm thinking wtf is a horse doing on Lemmon. Then I turn around and see Lionel charging up the mountain. Blew by me like I was standing still.

Ended up riding to the top of Ski Valley and got a chance to talk to Lionel. He was beaming with joy. I had no idea who he was but knew something special had happened. What I saw was genuine happiness. If you've ever had a breakthrough workout or race, you know how awesome it feels. That feeling like anything is possible.

Come on, Matias. We know you. You climb like a helium balloon. How long did you try to hold his wheel?

According to Strava about mile, but it felt like a blink of an eye.

Lionel Sanders Mt Lemmon KOM Strava Playback

Ok, that is friggin' superb. Strava is friggin' superb. Here we are talking about some legendary workout, and we've got full instant replay.

I think I have a new sig.

omg
omg
you can replay road races and see what really happened, lol
http://labs.strava.com/...oGsP+W5tD4wTbg+vh30P

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR-Eozbzf0U

just a simple matter of coding to turn it 3d and make it look just like a go pro video

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

"you can replay road races and see what really happened"

Are Bozzone, Reed and Jensen on Strava, I wonder?

'See how he comes through the ranks ' ??!!!

Hell Son, you missed all that last year!! He's well through and playing waaay up at the very tip with some dudes who have apparently gone to the Olympics? You've heard of them at least down in Australia (I hope) ??:)




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