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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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aarondb4 wrote:

How bout Sig Sauer? I heard the Navy Seals refuse to use anything else. I'd take one of those over a glock any day.


The SEALs will wait until the decision is made, and then pick something different. If the Army selects the Sig, they'll switch to Glock. Or probably something more obscure. They just love to be "different." Even their Humvees are a little different.
Last edited by: trail: Dec 4, 14 14:39
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
My feelings as well. The M9 is a fine handgun, but, it certainly has the issues you noted.

To me, a Glock is a like an AK - you can bury the damn thing and dig it up later to fire without issue. Simple and effective. With their proliferation of law enforcement, I often wondered why they were never adopted by the military. My guess is that the military wanted an even lower rate than law enforcement was getting and Glock did not see it as a smart move to reduce the bulk price of their product. But, I am purely speculating.

I've shot a Glock and wasn't over impressed with it as compared to what I was told was the Canadian Forces issue side arm (a Browning?). I actually preferred the feel of the Browning over the Glock, thought the grip was a little goofy. Mind you, my exposure to side arms amounts to a couple of visits to Wild West in West Edmonton Mall and a visit to a gun club.
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I heard they all use whatever they want on an individual basis.

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
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last tri in 83 wrote:
I heard they all use whatever they want on an individual basis.

Half truth. They get a lot of latitude, but there's also a lot of standardization within SOCOM.
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Walther PPK. If it's good enough for James Bond ...




Truth be told, this is one of my favorite guns and my go-to carry.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [jarhead] [ In reply to ]
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jarhead wrote:
Rodred wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
Honest question. How much real use is there for a handgun in a modern military?


There is and always will be the need for soldiers to volunteer to fight at close quarters. To them there is a whole lot of use. To the average POG not so much.

Don't feel bad for not knowing because military leaders forget quite frequently.


Do you mean Pogue or REMF? I'm not familiar with a POG. Seriously, just asking.

Both :)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=POG


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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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TheForge wrote:
The pistol that won the socom trials was the HK, MK 23 I believe. That thing is a beast. With a suppressor it is bigger than a sub machine gun.

But I could see the USP (Like Jack Bauer's) or some derivative being up there.


I was thinking USP. Won SOCOM years ago.


http://www.militaryfactory.com/...asp?smallarms_id=235 nice history lesson.


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"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
Last edited by: Rodred: Dec 4, 14 15:30
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
aarondb4 wrote:

How bout Sig Sauer? I heard the Navy Seals refuse to use anything else. I'd take one of those over a glock any day.


The SEALs will wait until the decision is made, and then pick something different. If the Army selects the Sig, they'll switch to Glock. Or probably something more obscure. They just love to be "different." Even their Humvees are a little different.

And they are squids so it's easy to understand.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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have a few good friends in the teams, most shoot sig p220's/p226's, one shoots a Glock (.45), and another a 1911 (but he is on a "special team"). They tend to stick to 9mm/.45, but most prefer the .45. If you have been in long enough and or on different teams you can get more latitude but the Sig's are just really well made.

Now as to what will they choose? I will bet S&W or Springfield, pretty sure it has to have an external safety and a decocking level that can be easily reached with the thumb. If i am not mistaken if they want to switch to a new caliber the gun that is submitted has to have an explination as why they should switch calibers. That was a very big deal a few years ago when they had the carbine/rifle competition to pick a new gun. That will rule out Glock right away. Sig's/HK/F&N are too expensive for big army, so it really leaves only a few serious players.
Last edited by: -Mike-: Dec 4, 14 18:08
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
If i am not mistaken if they want to switch to a new caliber the gun that is submitted has to have an explination as why they should switch calibers. That was a very big deal a few years ago when they had the carbine/rifle competition to pick a new gun. That will rule out Glock right away.

Why will that rule out Glock???

Glock 17/19 - 9mm
Glock 21 - .45

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Vladof usually have the highest fire rate, but Torgue rounds always explode. Dahl and Bandit generally suck skag balls..

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Why do they need new guns? Can't drones do the same thing without putting troops in danger? New pistols for what who uses a pistol combat still? These are long range wars with short range f*ck us costing lives. Spend the money on intelligence, my guess goes with the Glock Clan though...
Last edited by: kppolich: Dec 4, 14 21:09
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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My previous post was all over the place, glock will be ruled out not because of caliber but due to design. Glock has no external safety, no decocker, and is not double action in the classic sense that the army wants. Of course Glock argues that their safe action is superior, but the army a while back was emphatic about not liking Glocks design. If you google it there are some interesting articles discussing this exact issue since Glock would be a great choice as they are insanely reliable and cheap, but as always some old dudes up top think that if it does not have a classic safety it is not a safe gun.
Last edited by: -Mike-: Dec 4, 14 21:28
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [aftereffector] [ In reply to ]
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That entire carbine test was BS, they published most of the results and the M4 did terribly compared to many of the weapons tested. The test actually convinced many other groups to switch to different weapon systems because of how good the results were, in particular the F&N Scar which is now used by the rangers, army sf, navy spec war, air force spec war, etc. All comes down to money and contracts and i am sure Colt made some deal to keep it going or there are just some real idiots in the decision making process.

I think there were close to 10 weapon systems which outperformed the M4 and most were offered at low prices, but of course they stick with the M4 which has some serious reliability issues in harsh conditions.
Last edited by: -Mike-: Dec 4, 14 21:34
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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I have the USP compact and it's a sweet gun. I'm actually more accurate with it versus my friend's Sig 226 and M9.

I will probably test the Px4 Storm based on what I've read in the LR as well as other online reviews. Gut feel is that the vendor of choice will be 'merican made.


TheForge wrote:
Here you go. The USP has the same dimension, but the USP Compacts were popular with LE depts. at one point.



Compact

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Beretta wasn't American made when selected. The m9 now is. FNH manufactures the m249 and m16s locally. The us subsidiaries submit the bids.


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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
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Sig is the sidearm of choice for Canadian military and many police forces. Know a number of guys that carry one and would be highly resistant to swapping.

As far as hollowpoint goes... I believe Slowguy is right.

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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Browning is/was being phased out. SigP 226. OPP and Vancouver PD have adopted Sigs as well as RCMP ERT to name a few.

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I owned one of those many, many years ago until it was stolen out of a vehicle. As much as I loved it, the damn thing weighs so much for such a small gun that shoots .380. There are a lot better carry guns around now since the polymer revolution, but I agree, the PPK is just so sweet. And, it looks sexy as hell.

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [gregtryin] [ In reply to ]
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I've got a Kahr CW 380 that I'm loving right now.

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [ In reply to ]
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Gold plated .50 Desert Eagle is really the only logical and practical choice...in fact, standard issue should be to carry two in a shoulder holster or criss cross holster on the back of the waist.
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, so that makes sense. Found this tidbit of stuff too,
http://www.casr.ca/101-army-smallarm-4.htm
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
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Twotter wrote:
Gold plated .50 Desert Eagle is really the only logical and practical choice...in fact, standard issue should be to carry two in a shoulder holster or criss cross holster on the back of the waist.
I had one in .50. Not gold plated. Sold it. It was great fun for a few trips to the range. But utterly ridiculous and impractical. The thing weighed as much as an M4. It jammed about once per magazine. Each time the failure mode would be different. It was obscenely loud. So much so that people at the range would stop shooting and come over to see WTF was I doing. One lady shooter once cussed me out and left. Too much for her. Huge fireball. Ceiling tiles above me would buckle at an indoor range. And then there's the recoil. Best described as barely manageable. Ammo was expensive, about a dollar a round, however since the pistol would beat me up pretty quickly the ammo consumption was kind of self limiting.

The Army should select the Sig P226. They'd get the best full size combat pistol there is, and they'd get some parts commonality with 228/M11 not to mention familiar controls.

But logic won't win the contract. Bean counters and politics will play a larger role than the range testing. IIRC back in the 80s when they were replacing the .45 in testing the P226 jammed once for so many thousands of rounds, Berretta jammed a few times, and everything else jammed more. The control 1911 jammed the most, which should not be a surprise to anyone who's familiar with it.
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
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Twotter wrote:
Gold plated .50 Desert Eagle is really the only logical and practical choice...in fact, standard issue should be to carry two in a shoulder holster or criss cross holster on the back of the waist.



Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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