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Any bets on US Army next gun?
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http://money.cnn.com/...index.html?hpt=hp_t2

My money's on S&W.
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Oh this again. I don't know the specifics of this bid. But pistols that go through this process physically change. Are they sticking with 9mm.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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I hope the 9mm has seen its last days of service. When I left the Marine Corps there was a tremendous amount of buzz and support for going back to the .45.

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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
I hope the 9mm has seen its last days of service. When I left the Marine Corps there was a tremendous amount of buzz and support for going back to the .45.

Meh. I entered the Army carrying a .45 and left carrying a 9mm. Pros and cons of each. But, for its intended ussage, .45 likely makes more sense.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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I can tell you, for a fact, who will win -- the lowest bidder.

Beretta is pushing hard for the Px4 Storm Special Duty (.45). As an owner of one, I can tell you, one of the best guns I have ever fired. But, it is "complicated" with its "rolling" barrel and it is "fatter" than most. http://www.beretta.com/...x4-storm-sd-type-f-/

If I were making the decision, I would contract with Glock and outfit the military in the .45 variety. I am no Glock fanboi, but, the damn things are nearly infallible and easy as hell to work with and on.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Why not split the difference and go 40s&w? Or would introducing yet another caliber overwhelm the supply system?
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Honest question. How much real use is there for a handgun in a modern military?
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [owen.] [ In reply to ]
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owen. wrote:
Why not split the difference and go 40s&w? Or would introducing yet another caliber overwhelm the supply system?

'Cause .40 sucks to fire in most guns. Remember, it has to be a caliber everyone can handle. Also, why complicate things?

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:
Honest question. How much real use is there for a handgun in a modern military?

It's all I carried for over a year in the sandbox and, yeah, I needed it. I was attached to an armor brigade and they used and needed them as well.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
Honest question. How much real use is there for a handgun in a modern military?


It's all I carried for over a year in the sandbox and, yeah, I needed it. I was attached to an armor brigade and they used and needed them as well.

They're also widely used for security and ATFP watch standers, MPs, etc.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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What do you guys carry? Are you using the Beretta in 9mm flavor? What are your thoughts?

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Most of our watches carry the 9mm Beretta M9. It's probably fine for what we mostly use it for, although I preferred the .45s we used to have. The Berettas have a relatively low fire rate, low range, low stopping power, they're decent but not great for accuracy, and have a higher rate of minor malfunction (anecdotally) than some other pistols I've used. That said, some of those issues may not be with the weapon itself. For instance, I think the govt decided to buy magazines from other vendors, rather than from Beretta, and they were somewhat known for higher than normal rates of failure.

For security watches and MP type functions, they're probably fine because they're maintained routinely, kept in clean armories, and not fired on the job routinely. If I was living in the desert with a sidearm on my hip all the time, I might want something else.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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The glock is almost a consensus among people I know who served and most contractors I knew carried glocks.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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My feelings as well. The M9 is a fine handgun, but, it certainly has the issues you noted.

To me, a Glock is a like an AK - you can bury the damn thing and dig it up later to fire without issue. Simple and effective. With their proliferation of law enforcement, I often wondered why they were never adopted by the military. My guess is that the military wanted an even lower rate than law enforcement was getting and Glock did not see it as a smart move to reduce the bulk price of their product. But, I am purely speculating.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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TheForge wrote:
The glock is almost a consensus among people I know who served and most contractors I knew carried glocks.

I like the manual safety on the M9 (and the 1911, for that matter) for carrying cocked and locked. But, I question whether a (external) hammer-driven pistol is the right choice for those in uniform already covered in tactical gear, given where many of them carry the pistol. That would be another factor (albeit not the primary by any means) that would cause me to, personally, choose a Glock like the people you mention.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I think that part of the issue is that the Hague Convention prohibits the use of expanding ammunition in warfare. That means we can't use hollow point rounds like the .40 S&W which lots of LE use in their Glocks. The 9mm parabellum round meets NATO standards, which is why that round was chosen to begin with.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Honest question. How much real use is there for a handgun in a modern military?

Can't say about the real military but in COD it's way faster to switch weapons then reload the one you just emptied. That's an important thing when your facing an over whelming Zombie hoard. Life or death.

~Matt


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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [owen.] [ In reply to ]
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It also has a narrow pressure curve because they took the 10mm auto (a magnum caliber) at its minimum setting and compressed it into a shortened case with no increase in case strength. Every case failure I'm aware of with factory loaded ammo and it was police it happened to.

As I stated in another thread, my theory is with the small pressure window, bullet setback is the culprit. Every time you chamber a round it pushes that bullet into the case. It exponentially does more with subsequent rechamberings.

I would suspect most police either are required to clear their chambers when in station or certainly do it when they get home if they have children. Too much setback on a .40 round isn't obvious. On a .45 or even 9mm it is. A .45 with too much setback is well within the ogive (where the bullet start to dome). So doesn't 9mm. Both do not chamber well long before that is an issue.

That is why .40 in my opinion cannot be a combat round.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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The only firearm I really want to pickup right now is the FN FNX Tactical .45 ACP. I believe this gun was initially designed for the military contract on the last request a few years back, but the government never executed the contract (or something like that).

It's a double stack polymer .45 cal. that holds 15 rounds. You gotta' love holding 15 rounds of .45 cal in one magazine...

The grip is not as big as most other double stack .45s I have looked at that hold fewer rounds.

Greg
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I had interest in a contractor position as a controller with Dyncorp in Afghanistan after I got laid off from Marriott. While not an armed position they did recommend familiarity with the functions of an Ar-15s and glock pistol. Because that was what the armory stocked.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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My money's on Glock. Does anybody know howmany law enforcement agency's use them by the way?
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Irrelevant and false. Military doesn't use hollow point because they don't feed as reliably. They make .40 in ball anyways.

The sniper round has a match king
Projectile. That is an hpbt round. Hollow point boat tail. But you are right, the us military would have to accept a NATO round. Or designate the .40 one through a process. That was what was done for the 5.56. NATO was on board with a 7.62 round. But we decided the 5.56
In an assault rifle format was what we would go with.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:
Honest question. How much real use is there for a handgun in a modern military?

To me, it just seems to make more sense to go to an intermediate round for primaries and start carrying something like the MP7 for a secondary. Weight becomes a bit of an issue though.

Disclaimer: I often promise photos fully intending to provide them and then get distracted. Sorry in advance :)
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [gregtryin] [ In reply to ]
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gregtryin wrote:
The only firearm I really want to pickup right now is the FN FNX Tactical .45 ACP. I believe this gun was initially designed for the military contract on the last request a few years back, but the government never executed the contract (or something like that).

It's a double stack polymer .45 cal. that holds 15 rounds. You gotta' love holding 15 rounds of .45 cal in one magazine...

The grip is not as big as most other double stack .45s I have looked at that hold fewer rounds.

Greg

IIRC it was developed for SOCOM

Disclaimer: I often promise photos fully intending to provide them and then get distracted. Sorry in advance :)
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Re: Any bets on US Army next gun? [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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I would also bet on S&W

Disclaimer: I often promise photos fully intending to provide them and then get distracted. Sorry in advance :)
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