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Re: New marathon WR [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
They are using the word in a different way than you are.
Also, they are wrong, haha. Team tactics used all the time in these events.

Overrated and really only of substantial value on track where you can effectively block people. On the roads, all the team tactics in the world aren't going to make a difference. The draft effect just isn't large enough. This isn't cycling. It's an individual sport.
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Re: New marathon WR [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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JoeO wrote:
jackmott wrote:
They are using the word in a different way than you are.
Also, they are wrong, haha. Team tactics used all the time in these events.


Overrated and really only of substantial value on track where you can effectively block people. On the roads, all the team tactics in the world aren't going to make a difference. The draft effect just isn't large enough. This isn't cycling. It's an individual sport.

Whether a draft is helpful I think depends on the day. I've done run races in strong winds where being in a pack of people mattered. I remember one early race from this year, several times I kicked my right leg with my left b/c the cross winds were so bad. Would have been nice to have had someone on my left to block the wind. From my experience, its hard to hit your target times in strong winds unless you've got someone stronger running in front of you blocking the wind. Pacers would be a huge benefit on a day like that and team tactics would certainly make a difference.

Isn't one of the main reasons that Boston is disallowed from being a WR course is because it's point to point and can have predominate tail wind? If they are saying a tail wind is important, then drafting to some extent, has to be important as well?
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Re: New marathon WR [ziggie204] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, the wind of point to point is one of the reason but that's in terms of eligibility for a record. If you get the advantage of that big tail wind, so can I. There is nothing that a team can do to prevent it. There are no special team tactics that are going to matter on the road. I can draft you or your team as well as you can. And if you try to surge away from someone, the break forms too slowly and the cost of bridging the gap is simply not enough to make it something that a team could defend. There are no domestiques needed to get water bottles or hand you their bikes. The only thing a team can offer is moral support.
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Re: New marathon WR [tobi_tri] [ In reply to ]
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I have not seen that either China or India pushes sports very much for most kids.

While I have not lived in either country, I have spent weeks in both and have not seen the sports participation at any age group I have in other places.
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Re: New marathon WR [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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If you think it is an individual sport because the draft doesn't matter, then there is no reason to worry about allowing pacers.

If you think the draft matters, then it isn't an individual sport, so there is no reason to worry about pacers.

JoeO wrote:

Overrated and really only of substantial value on track where you can effectively block people. On the roads, all the team tactics in the world aren't going to make a difference. The draft effect just isn't large enough. This isn't cycling. It's an individual sport.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: New marathon WR [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
If you think it is an individual sport because the draft doesn't matter, then there is no reason to worry about allowing pacers.

Nope. I think it's an individual sport because your team gives you no advantage that they don't also give me. I can draft off of them as well as you can. I can draft off of you too.

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If you think the draft matters, then it isn't an individual sport, so there is no reason to worry about pacers.

The draft matters for world record consideration, not for victory. But I don't worry about pacers regardless because most of the last 20+ world records have been set with pacers anyway.
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Re: New marathon WR [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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Re: New marathon WR [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
So it is an individual sport, mostly, sometimes?

Sounds like triathlon.

I'd say its an individual sport all the time but I don't need to nitpick.

So what point are you making?
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Re: New marathon WR [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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JoeO wrote:
jackmott wrote:
So it is an individual sport, mostly, sometimes?

Sounds like triathlon.

I'd say its an individual sport all the time but I don't need to nitpick.

So what point are you making?

That people asking "why are the rules what the rules are?"
Are going to get the answer "because that is what the rules are"



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: New marathon WR [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Probably true, but that simple explanation hides a lot. The rules aren't completely arbitrary. There tends to be a spirit behind them. It's easy to poke holes in how they are implemented, but I wonder how much better any of us would do.
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Re: New marathon WR [ziggie204] [ In reply to ]
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ziggie204 wrote:

Isn't one of the main reasons that Boston is disallowed from being a WR course is because it's point to point and can have predominate tail wind? If they are saying a tail wind is important, then drafting to some extent, has to be important as well?


No, elevation change and the fact that it doesn't loop in some way. That does negate building a course to completely harness tail winds though.

edit: drafting and tail winds are two different things.
Last edited by: chris948: Sep 29, 14 19:15
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Re: New marathon WR [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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Superhuman, but it sure is impressive!
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