not much help for drafting on a course like berlin marathon. It is more a psychological effect, the need for humans to compete , the visual chase...//

Well since WR's are usually only broken by a small amount, i would say that a couple % advantage was plenty to have been the difference. Of course the pacing effect is huge too, but virtually every race will have that for the majority of the race, at least until the final surges come in and break the peleton. There is a certain amount of mental energy saved when you just get to veg out and follow someones back, probably translates into physical exertion too..

Yes, 2-4% is huge when you're already in the top 1%.

I'm totally drafting the hell out of the biggest guy I can find at my next race. I just need to find a big guy who can run fast, maybe I should get a donut on a stick.

I just downloaded his finisher's certificate as if it were my own. I hope it doesn't diminish his accomplishment.

Looks like a nice 33 sec negative split 2nd half. Wish I could do that in a marathon!

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Whether it is huge or not, does it matter that much now since all the recent WR have been set with pacers (and at Berlin)?

Fred.

It ain't 4%, I can promise you that. I've raced on the track at faster than the marathon WR speeds for 1500-5000m, in packs in championship races and solo in small meets, and I can assure you that there is no 4% difference. 4% is 12 seconds per mile at that speed. If the drafting effect were that substantial, you would see serious declines in speed as the field whittles down in the second half of races and the winners are forced to forgo their 12 seconds per mile drafting benefit.

4% for the 5K on the track is about 30 seconds. Lots of elites have raced 5Ks where they are effectively solo efforts and their times are not 30 seconds off when they run in a pack.

I'm sure there is a small draft effect. Hell, running into a headwind definitely has an adverse impact and these guys are creating their own 12.7mph headwind. So, tucking in has to help. But, it is minor and 4% is definitely not minor.

the dude won the Chicago Marathon last year sub-2:04! Might want to bother heading over to Letsrun once and a while.

And why do these races "count" as a world record when Paula Radcliffe's did not because she supposedly paced off men? Men pacing off men is okay though even if the men being paced off of are professional rabbits.

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Pete Githens
Reading, PA

Because that is the rules.
They can't use bikes either.
They can use coffee
but not epo

Every sport is a set of made up rules, totally at the whims of people evolving the sport at the time.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

A better question is why can the men use pacers, but if a woman wins w new record time it doesn't count if a male finishes in front of her?

Exactly. Despite the other responses in support of pacers, I still don't understand why the men get to use them. If this is an individual sport why allow it? ST goes crazy every year with the Draft fest emails at every race and the sames ones clanging the gong against drafting are now supporting pacers in the marathon.
Any aid - pacers, gorilla, or an ipod can help you run faster. I know the Berlin Marathon makes a ton of cash by being the race where world records are set but its just not cricket.

Women get to use them too. They just have to be women.

Yep, Paula was probably the last once allowed to make serious runs at WR with male pacers (but don't hold me to it). I really don't have a problem with it either way but I guess the IAFF does. I think there is an issue with women's marathoning in that the front of the elite pack is thinner than the men so there are issues with putting together good teams of rabbits, that and the women's WR is much faster than the current crop of runners. It's easy to find a dozen men that can bring the leaders through at WR pace fairly reliably, not so for the women

It isn't an individual sport, never was.
Neither is triathlon really. Some triathlons are a sport where you have to stay X meters away from the bike in front of you.

That is a rule, breaking rules is cheating.

this is simple shit guys.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Not so fast Jack.

The International Association of Athletics Federations, the sport's governing body, defines athletics in five disciplines: track and field, road running, race walking, cross country running, and mountain running.[15] All forms of athletics are individual sports with the exception of relay races.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...thletics_%28sport%29

Just crazy stupid fast. His pace was 4:41/mile. Even if I could run that fast, and I'm not sure I could, I certainly couldn't do it for more than a few yards. To run just under 13 mph for two hours, beyond impressive.

I think the guys that can only run a 2:07 at 4:50/mi are slow.


Just think, that's his zone 3 pace. I'm sure his VO2max intervals are near a 4:00 mile.... and an really easy recovery jogging pace is what, 6:00.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Even they admit they've come up with something on paper that can't be replicated in real life. They only real world test air pressure at 3 feet behind the runner, and because runners tend to have legs, that doesn't work.

This is equivalent to a reduction in time for a 400 m lap from

66*6 to 62-5 sec. Track experience, however, suggests that athletes cannot

run close enough to gain as much advantage as this. Running behind and to

one side in the position shown in Fig. 9, the gain might be 1 sec per lap
which is more in line with experience.

They are using the word in a different way than you are.
Also, they are wrong, haha. Team tactics used all the time in these events.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

The strange thing to me is that in the women's field the European or north american ladies are at least competitive. Meanwhile in the men's field none of them are even close. I guess the east african men just train harder than the ladies there ;)

They are not even running nearly at their limit now when you see how easy they got back the deficit they had over the WR time halfway through. Nobody can tell me that this domination is due to the height and running since they were 4 years old...

Could someone tell you it is because these countries have around 5 million boys running 50 miles a week, from which to select their fastest runners?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Well according to this theory China and India should dominate any sport.

give them a few years. china already is farming kids at young age to be the top in sport. they do well in other sports currently. China has the money for athlete development