Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"I called a spade a spade, I called him a doper to his face. He started yelling and swearing at me in Spanish. In my mind, once a doper always a doper. Once you cross over that line to cheat, doping, drafting, etc. it is a lot easier to do it again and after a while it appears these athletes become oblivious to the rules," said Starykowicz. "Is triathlon a second chance for these athletes? No."

Starky says no.


Also some food for thought:


To put the efforts of Guerra and Colom in perspective, at the 2012 Ironman 70.3 Texas Lance Armstrong was about 1.5 minutes slower on the bike than Sebastian Kienle, and the now disgraced Texan was well known and respected for his dominating TT skills and speed. But Guerra and Colom can apparently ride 3-4 minutes faster than Kienle on the same distance after an opening 1.2 mile swim.


Virtually saying either he's a better cheater than LA or better time trialist?

I second T.O.'s thoughts on the matter (article is a good read):

I would agree with some of the other professionals on a strong stance against the 1st degree (as I call them) doping offenses. Such a blatant disregard for the spirit of sport and for your competitors by using these doping methods should not be looked upon lightly. Racing professionally is a privilege, not a right. I often hear people say these athletes made mistakes and deserve a second chance. Taking a supplement that is cross-contaminated and getting a positive test is a mistake, that deserves a second chance. Calculating blood doping schedules and micro-dosing EPO is a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage over your competitors and it is malicious. The first degree doping offenders do not deserve a second chance in professional competition. They may deserve a second chance in other aspects of their life, but not in racing. I know convicted dopers that are really nice guys and who would be great company over a beer. Would I be willing to forgive past transgressions and be cordial over a drink, sure. Would I gladly invite them to the start line of a race after two years, no. Like I said, racing professionally is a privilege, when that privilege is disrespected and abused it should be revoked.

When it comes to the influx of cyclists with 1st degree offenses that have decided to pursue triathlon, I say don't bring your dirty laundry into our sport. The norm in triathlon is clean competitors not dirty. Are there triathletes doping while I type this sentence, I am sure there are some. However, it will not be accepted by the overwhelming majority of professional triathletes. We will not let our sport go the way of cycling in the past and we need to do our best to make sure we let that be known.

Last edited by: rjrankin83: Sep 7, 14 14:48
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

the guy is a former PRO cyclist. meaning automatically he's close to if not one of the best cyclist in triathlon. my assumption (please correct/educate me if i'm wrong) is that any of the guys on the pro tour (ie anyone from anytime at the tour de france) could likely step in and put out the best ride in an ironman (for me, a top 3 seems to be a safe assumption). why does it surprise everyone that a former professional cyclist is 6 mins faster than the best AG? what's more surprising is that this top AG'er is only 4 minutes slower than someone like a pro (someone said gomez was 2 mins faster than the best pro and 6 mins faster than the best AG, so the difference is 4 mins). that i feel raises more flags than colom's 6 min difference.

not to mention i don't see why people can't earn a second chance. ok, he realizes he needs to dope to race pro, decides he doesn't want to do it and still wants to race. any normal person would look at triathlon and think "hmm, i could do well there without requiring PED's".

the same thing happened when weiss won cozumel, people were up in arms. he seems to be a pretty good dude and is quite transparent with his anti doping passport etc. not to mention he has put in numerous other outputs that place him pretty well.

yeah, he doped, yeah, it sucks. but it didn't hurt you. could it hurt to give someone a second chance? do they not deserve to earn an living as well? especially if they no longer cheat.

john

These are my thoughts exactly. Thanks for writing it, you saved me a lot of time.

One other thing to consider.. FOLLOW THE MONEY. There are probably 175 pro tour cyclists in the world that make 250K and about 8 triathletes.. So, as a young aspiring endurance athlete which are you choosing for your profession? It is not a surprise at all that the cyclists can cross over, they are superior athletes from the beginning.

Austin Hardy -

Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

the guy is a former PRO cyclist. meaning automatically he's close to if not one of the best cyclist in triathlon. my assumption (please correct/educate me if i'm wrong) is that any of the guys on the pro tour (ie anyone from anytime at the tour de france) could likely step in and put out the best ride in an ironman (for me, a top 3 seems to be a safe assumption). why does it surprise everyone that a former professional cyclist is 6 mins faster than the best AG? what's more surprising is that this top AG'er is only 4 minutes slower than someone like a pro (someone said gomez was 2 mins faster than the best pro and 6 mins faster than the best AG, so the difference is 4 mins). that i feel raises more flags than colom's 6 min difference.

not to mention i don't see why people can't earn a second chance. ok, he realizes he needs to dope to race pro, decides he doesn't want to do it and still wants to race. any normal person would look at triathlon and think "hmm, i could do well there without requiring PED's".

the same thing happened when weiss won cozumel, people were up in arms. he seems to be a pretty good dude and is quite transparent with his anti doping passport etc. not to mention he has put in numerous other outputs that place him pretty well.

yeah, he doped, yeah, it sucks. but it didn't hurt you. could it hurt to give someone a second chance? do they not deserve to earn an living as well? especially if they no longer cheat.

john

The big issue is that it's not clear that someone can ever really be called an ex-doper. I saw this study posted in regards to Justin Gatlin's recent remarkable performance in the 100/200, where he dominated both - http://jp.physoc.org/...ol.2013.264457.short

But there is evidence that the same general logic holds with numerous other forms of doping as well.

The training that you did while doping doesn't just disappear when you stop taking drugs, and that is assuming that this guy stopped taking drugs, which is perhaps a big assumption considering that when Lance Armstrong returned to triathlon, his margin was often smaller than Colom's; he got outrode by Kienle in Galveston. And Lance was an Olympic medalist in the TT. Colom was, by all accounts, just an average TTer when he was a protour rider, not even close to the level that Lance was at.

But regardless, in all these cases - Lance included - it's very debatable about whether or not someone can ever truly be considered "clean" if they are convicted of doping, especially if they come from a sport where doping was rampant and where I think you'd be hard pressed to say that a doping offense was a "one time thing."

So the issue is that this guy is almost still certainly benefiting from that doping.

More and more, this is the logic that is being presented in arguing for lifetime bans as the norm for things like steroids, EPO, etc. For acute substances - say you get banned for a stimulant in competition - then a shorter ban is acceptable, because there isn't a lasting effect (note that many of the stimulants banned in-competition are not banned for use in training).

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"The training that you did while doping doesn't just disappear when you stop taking drugs"

Thank You ... just don't understand why people do not understand this ... years of training effect does not just disappear because you took the need out of your ass

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Last edited by: Dave Latourette: Sep 7, 14 15:04
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So you are saying the guy was a donkey before drugs, I don't buy it.

I look at it a little diffident. He is racing with-in the rules.....he's fast and wins! Until you can't point to where he's cheated
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are naive.


ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

john
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Aust1227] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Much fewer than 175 guys making 250k. I don't have any numbers on this but I think that's a big overestimate.
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dave Latourette wrote:
"The training that you did while doping doesn't just disappear when you stop taking drugs"

Thank You ... just don't understand why people do not understand this ... years of training effect does not just disappear because you took the need out of your ass

actually it might quite possibly do just that...

didn't Dr. Ferrari said in an interview that he saw a VO2 decline below their original level in people taken off EPO. I don't think there is anything published due to the fact that you would have to give a group of people EPO in the first place to perform a study but if anyone has good insight into that than it is Ferrari...

So untill there is a study performed to look into that I just don't see it as a good argument.

But whether people deserve a second chance is a totally different question. personally I think stuff like EPO and transfusions deserve a lifetime ban but that is just to make it more difficult for people to rationalise crossing that hurdle...
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rappstar wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

the guy is a former PRO cyclist. meaning automatically he's close to if not one of the best cyclist in triathlon. my assumption (please correct/educate me if i'm wrong) is that any of the guys on the pro tour (ie anyone from anytime at the tour de france) could likely step in and put out the best ride in an ironman (for me, a top 3 seems to be a safe assumption). why does it surprise everyone that a former professional cyclist is 6 mins faster than the best AG? what's more surprising is that this top AG'er is only 4 minutes slower than someone like a pro (someone said gomez was 2 mins faster than the best pro and 6 mins faster than the best AG, so the difference is 4 mins). that i feel raises more flags than colom's 6 min difference.

not to mention i don't see why people can't earn a second chance. ok, he realizes he needs to dope to race pro, decides he doesn't want to do it and still wants to race. any normal person would look at triathlon and think "hmm, i could do well there without requiring PED's".

the same thing happened when weiss won cozumel, people were up in arms. he seems to be a pretty good dude and is quite transparent with his anti doping passport etc. not to mention he has put in numerous other outputs that place him pretty well.

yeah, he doped, yeah, it sucks. but it didn't hurt you. could it hurt to give someone a second chance? do they not deserve to earn an living as well? especially if they no longer cheat.

john


The big issue is that it's not clear that someone can ever really be called an ex-doper. I saw this study posted in regards to Justin Gatlin's recent remarkable performance in the 100/200, where he dominated both - http://jp.physoc.org/...ol.2013.264457.short

But there is evidence that the same general logic holds with numerous other forms of doping as well.

The training that you did while doping doesn't just disappear when you stop taking drugs, and that is assuming that this guy stopped taking drugs, which is perhaps a big assumption considering that when Lance Armstrong returned to triathlon, his margin was often smaller than Colom's; he got outrode by Kienle in Galveston. And Lance was an Olympic medalist in the TT. Colom was, by all accounts, just an average TTer when he was a protour rider, not even close to the level that Lance was at.

But regardless, in all these cases - Lance included - it's very debatable about whether or not someone can ever truly be considered "clean" if they are convicted of doping, especially if they come from a sport where doping was rampant and where I think you'd be hard pressed to say that a doping offense was a "one time thing."

So the issue is that this guy is almost still certainly benefiting from that doping.

More and more, this is the logic that is being presented in arguing for lifetime bans as the norm for things like steroids, EPO, etc. For acute substances - say you get banned for a stimulant in competition - then a shorter ban is acceptable, because there isn't a lasting effect (note that many of the stimulants banned in-competition are not banned for use in training).

jordan,

thanks for taking the time to reply and give me a better understanding of this. to argue the other side (just for the sake of it). he's significantly younger than lance armstrong. perhaps lance 8 years younger would have done better than kienle? perhaps he's not as strong of a runner so he held back a bit more for the run? perhaps he pushed too hard on the run? i think there are a lot of factors at play here. (different course, different day, different training).

at some point the positive gains you get from doping go away. just because you did steroids and got huge 5 years ago doesn't mean you maintain that muscle mass for life. i'm not as well versed in the literature as you perhaps are in this subject matter.

i'm not condoning cheating, i think folks deserve a second chance. that is all.

john
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [jakob1989] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jakob1989 wrote:
Dave Latourette wrote:
"The training that you did while doping doesn't just disappear when you stop taking drugs"

Thank You ... just don't understand why people do not understand this ... years of training effect does not just disappear because you took the need out of your ass


actually it might quite possibly do just that...

didn't Dr. Ferrari said in an interview that he saw a VO2 decline below their original level in people taken off EPO. I don't think there is anything published due to the fact that you would have to give a group of people EPO in the first place to perform a study but if anyone has good insight into that than it is Ferrari...

So untill there is a study performed to look into that I just don't see it as a good argument.

But whether people deserve a second chance is a totally different question. personally I think stuff like EPO and transfusions deserve a lifetime ban but that is just to make it more difficult for people to rationalise crossing that hurdle...

Why wouldn't he say that? He's protecting his investment
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Beachboy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Beachboy wrote:
He is racing with-in the rules.....

You do not know that. The anecdotal evidence says he is not racing within the rules, and his past suggest a willingness to break those rules by injecting EPO. Until he starts getting OOC tests regularly (which will never happen) then he deserves to be suspect. His choices in the past make him a subject of ridicule, as he should be. (There is nothing in the rules that says a competitor returning from a ban should not be ridiculed and ostracized.)

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
at some point the positive gains you get from doping go away. just because you did steroids and got huge 5 years ago doesn't mean you maintain that muscle mass for life. i'm not as well versed in the literature as you perhaps are in this subject matter. //

Sure they do, when you die. And we are not talking about body building here, your head is in the wrong sport...
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
what if he committed to OOC testing. how would you feel then?

seems like michi weiss did that and people still refuse to give him another chance.

john
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would feel a lot better about it. I would still hate the guy, because only a complete asshole chooses to screw over his competitors, coaches, friends and family like that. But I would complain less about him being in the race. Does EPO give you a life-long benefit? I do not know. I think it may be long lasting, but after a couple years of training at necessarily lower power levels, fitness must pare back towards natural ability - I *think*. That is just what common sense tells me but I am certainly no biologist.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fred D wrote:
I am all for busting on this guy as he is a proven doper.

However, the bigger issue in my mind is that the AG race is largely untested both in competition and OOC... so the assumption that this is the only AGer with a doping history, or that even the assumption that only a very few AGers are doping seems silly to me. We just don't know, as they are not tested like the pro's.

AG racing is sort of the wild west. No testing (by and large) means it's hard to assume the positive or the negative.

Why is this the case? WTC clearly has the means to test. They just gave their investors $220m payday; surely they can invest in some testing, both in and out of competition. And, if this guy isn't targeted for OOC tests, it shows WTC's commitment to clean racing is a farce.

This past week was US Cycling Masters National Championships. It had extensive testing. This is for a US only championships. For Masters, just a subset of amateurs. Why on earth can WTC not commit some resources to at least putting up the facade that they care about clean sport.

Does anyone know any AGs that have been tested at any WTC event this year? Even one?
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [dogmile] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dogmile wrote:
You are naive.


ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

john

Agreed. "If it doesn't impact me, it is not my problem" implies you don't care about the long term success of the sport.
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
what if he committed to OOC testing. how would you feel then?

seems like michi weiss did that and people still refuse to give him another chance.

john

My answer is a resounding, FUK NO! I'm not giving the guy a chance. He's a piece of shit. He was a professional athlete and a cheat. Low life scum suck sucking dirt bag. I don't give a rat's ass about testing him now. He already proved when it mattered the most he failed. In my opinion he gets no second chances in a sport where people kill themselves with family life, 50+ hour a week jobs and real commitments. This is a lifestyle sport even for the AG guys who are the fastest. This ass hat ripped past me last year on the Vegas course like I was standing still. Won the race there last year as well. What is he proving right now?

Team Zoot Northeast
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [gadzooks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
And just in case he can't understand my South Jersey english I'll save him the time and give his dumb ass a free google translation!

Mi respuesta es un rotundo , FUK NO! No voy a dar al hombre una oportunidad. Es un pedazo de mierda . Él era un atleta profesional y un tramposo . Bajo escoria vida chupar chupar bolsa suciedad. Me importa un culo de rata de él probando ahora . Él ya demostró cuando importaba lo más que pudo . En mi opinión no se le da una segunda oportunidad en un deporte donde las personas se quitan la vida con la vida familiar , 50 + horas a puestos de trabajo por semana y compromisos reales . Este es un deporte de estilo de vida , incluso para los chicos AG que son los más rápidos . Este sombrero culo arrancó junto a mí el año pasado en el curso Vegas como yo estaba de pie todavía . Ganó la carrera allí el año pasado también. ¿Qué está demostrando en este momento?

Team Zoot Northeast
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NJSteve wrote:
dogmile wrote:
You are naive.


ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

john


Agreed. "If it doesn't impact me, it is not my problem" implies you don't care about the long term success of the sport.

way to assume that i don't care. in all sports, folks cheat and are given a second chance. not to mention they have never cheated in triathlon. or if it makes you feel better i will say they have never tested positive in triathlon.

if you cheated in football should you be banned from all sports for life? if you doped to be an olympic distance runner should you be banned from all other sports in life? i personally don't think so. i think that it is ultimately up to each sport to make sure that the athletes are not cheating.

the fact is, it doesn't matter if colom is cheating or not. what matters is what triathlon is doing to keep cheaters from racing. if he's cheating and racing then it's triathlons fault (not fully of course). look, i don't think folks who have been cheating in triathlon be allowed to race. i don't know if a lifetime ban is the answer, but it is certainly in the right direction. but you know what? you can't give a lifetime ban if you don't have during and ooc testing.

make sense?

john
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [gadzooks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gadzooks wrote:
And just in case he can't understand my South Jersey english I'll save him the time and give his dumb ass a free google translation!

Mi respuesta es un rotundo , FUK NO! No voy a dar al hombre una oportunidad. Es un pedazo de mierda . Él era un atleta profesional y un tramposo . Bajo escoria vida chupar chupar bolsa suciedad. Me importa un culo de rata de él probando ahora . Él ya demostró cuando importaba lo más que pudo . En mi opinión no se le da una segunda oportunidad en un deporte donde las personas se quitan la vida con la vida familiar , 50 + horas a puestos de trabajo por semana y compromisos reales . Este es un deporte de estilo de vida , incluso para los chicos AG que son los más rápidos . Este sombrero culo arrancó junto a mí el año pasado en el curso Vegas como yo estaba de pie todavía . Ganó la carrera allí el año pasado también. ¿Qué está demostrando en este momento?

EPICO!
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [gadzooks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gadzooks wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
what if he committed to OOC testing. how would you feel then?

seems like michi weiss did that and people still refuse to give him another chance.

john


My answer is a resounding, FUK NO! I'm not giving the guy a chance. He's a piece of shit. He was a professional athlete and a cheat. Low life scum suck sucking dirt bag. I don't give a rat's ass about testing him now. He already proved when it mattered the most he failed. In my opinion he gets no second chances in a sport where people kill themselves with family life, 50+ hour a week jobs and real commitments. This is a lifestyle sport even for the AG guys who are the fastest. This ass hat ripped past me last year on the Vegas course like I was standing still. Won the race there last year as well. What is he proving right now?

Mike for the win!

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
NJSteve wrote:
dogmile wrote:
You are naive.


ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

john


Agreed. "If it doesn't impact me, it is not my problem" implies you don't care about the long term success of the sport.

way to assume that i don't care. in all sports, folks cheat and are given a second chance. not to mention they have never cheated in triathlon. or if it makes you feel better i will say they have never tested positive in triathlon.

if you cheated in football should you be banned from all sports for life? if you doped to be an olympic distance runner should you be banned from all other sports in life? i personally don't think so. i think that it is ultimately up to each sport to make sure that the athletes are not cheating.

the fact is, it doesn't matter if colom is cheating or not. what matters is what triathlon is doing to keep cheaters from racing. if he's cheating and racing then it's triathlons fault (not fully of course). look, i don't think folks who have been cheating in triathlon be allowed to race. i don't know if a lifetime ban is the answer, but it is certainly in the right direction. but you know what? you can't give a lifetime ban if you don't have during and ooc testing.

make sense?

john

I understand your sentiment and in theory am for this but it is kind of tricky. The sport he was cheating for makes up the majority of our sport so it's not like he wouldn't have any benefit. Maybe it would be more clearcut if triathlon were truly a different sport but essentially it's just a combination of three.
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok. I get what you're sying, but I am not willing to accept any cheating and/or any cheaters. Drafting, dropping your swim cap and other infractions are rightly punished, but those who take PEDs have the ability to chase away future racers, sponsors and coverage.
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [gadzooks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gadzooks wrote:
And just in case he can't understand my South Jersey english I'll save him the time and give his dumb ass a free google translation!

Mi respuesta es un rotundo , FUK NO! No voy a dar al hombre una oportunidad. Es un pedazo de mierda . Él era un atleta profesional y un tramposo . Bajo escoria vida chupar chupar bolsa suciedad. Me importa un culo de rata de él probando ahora . Él ya demostró cuando importaba lo más que pudo . En mi opinión no se le da una segunda oportunidad en un deporte donde las personas se quitan la vida con la vida familiar , 50 + horas a puestos de trabajo por semana y compromisos reales . Este es un deporte de estilo de vida , incluso para los chicos AG que son los más rápidos . Este sombrero culo arrancó junto a mí el año pasado en el curso Vegas como yo estaba de pie todavía . Ganó la carrera allí el año pasado también. ¿Qué está demostrando en este momento?

Ole!
Quote Reply
Re: Worlds AG race: Colom by 6'? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
NJSteve wrote:
dogmile wrote:
You are naive.


ahhchon wrote:
call me naive here but what's the issue?

john


Agreed. "If it doesn't impact me, it is not my problem" implies you don't care about the long term success of the sport.


way to assume that i don't care. in all sports, folks cheat and are given a second chance. not to mention they have never cheated in triathlon. or if it makes you feel better i will say they have never tested positive in triathlon.

if you cheated in football should you be banned from all sports for life? if you doped to be an olympic distance runner should you be banned from all other sports in life? i personally don't think so. i think that it is ultimately up to each sport to make sure that the athletes are not cheating.

the fact is, it doesn't matter if colom is cheating or not. what matters is what triathlon is doing to keep cheaters from racing. if he's cheating and racing then it's triathlons fault (not fully of course). look, i don't think folks who have been cheating in triathlon be allowed to race. i don't know if a lifetime ban is the answer, but it is certainly in the right direction. but you know what? you can't give a lifetime ban if you don't have during and ooc testing.

make sense?

john

He doped while riding a bike. The training and gains he made while doping didn't go away when he stopped (like Rapp said). He sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to enter a competition that involves riding a bike. I personally wouldn't let him do any sport professionally, and wouldn't let him take AG spots away from those who earned it the hard way.
Quote Reply

Prev Next