The TAL report was very well done - it highlighted the problem of children on SSDI - if they get better the family loses a major source of income. Although TAL, and 60 minutes, tend to focus on the sleazy lawyers getting rich rather than the freeloaders.

I am surprised that no one has connected the dots on a number of these issues - record low participation in the workforce keeping unemployment percentages down, record high numbers of SSDI participants, one party looking to reform the entitlements. With 9M people of voting age on SSDI and the last presidential election being decided by ~5M votes, how many votes is a candidate that threatens these benefits going to get?

Thanks for the informative post.

To speak to that, I had a lady that helped me clean the house and she started complaining that I was paying her with checks. She wanted cash. I told her checks or she could clean elsewhere. I am not going to be a party to someone's fraud.

What percentage of folks vote, especially from this demographic/socioeconomic group?

I'm going to guess no where near the 5/9th it would have taken to swing the election?

One would think that due to this the percentage of population on disability should be going down, in fact quite the opposite.

IIRC, the This American Life episode (see my other post) interviewed consultants working for states to convert state welfare recipients to Fed disability recipients. IOW, states pushing their costs over to the fed.

I want to watch more, but that video is 33 sec. long. Anything longer?

Here is the entire segment: http://www.cbsnews.com/.../watch/?id=50156574n

Cracks me up how 60 Minutes is being attacked for this story. Unreal.

http://www.latimes.com/...1007,0,7195237.story

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

All in all, 41% of all applicants end up with checks. Sound easy to you?

Uhhh...yes. 41% of applicants end up with checks? Yes that sounds ridiculously easy to me considering anyone can apply. I could apply, this means I have almost a 50/50 chance of getting a check.

~Matt

"Uhhh...yes. 41% of applicants end up with checks? Yes that sounds ridiculously easy to me considering anyone can apply. I could apply, this means I have almost a 50/50 chance of getting a check."

41% of all applicants receive checks doesn't mean that 41% of all people would receive checks if they applied.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Yup. Pretty clear that since the Federal Government can't get this right, we should kill the program, and all programs that help people and have fraud associated with them- like medicare, and give the job to churches where it belongs.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we are screwed.

What a foolish, ignorant, uneducated (and completely expected) response.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I did listen to the 60min show. I kinda' got the impression that, given your libertarian views, that you were holding this up as an example of another thing that the government shouldn't be doing, because they cannot transfer money without a leaky bucket. So- did I get that wrong? What was your intent with this post?

I thought I was pretty clear in my OP -- burn it down and re-build it from scratch. It is beyond fixing, but, I am not taking the position that it should be an eliminated function of govt.

EDIT TO ADD: I would take a large portion of the function away from the feds and give it to the states.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

41% of all applicants receive checks doesn't mean that 41% of all people would receive checks if they applied.

Yes, and? I'm saying that 41% of people that apply for a cash benefit that has no prerequisites to apply seems to be a very high number. I'm not saying that this number would stay the same if EVERYONE applied for it.

~Matt

Because killing the program is better than refining the law to try to stem the abuse? I'm sorry- while i'm no expert in our disability laws, I'm guessing that would be a huge mess.

and- giving it to the states would be better, why again? So individual states could decide if they even want to support people with disabilities? So, all the disabled people would move from AZ to CA? yeah- great idea. you're a friggen genius, whereas I'm uneducated.

That's Hale County, a small (pop. 15000) and very poor county. About a year ago, I was driving in a lower class neighborhood in Birmingham, AL and was flagged over by a lady. Gave her a ride to Walmart. She was stone drunk. Asked me what I did, and I just said something like, "not much" as I didn't want to talk to her. She said, "Are you on disability?" (I look healthy and not-disabled). I had no clue what she was talking about at the time.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Between this:

and stuff mentioned in the LA Times article:

Is it any wonder we can't get anywhere on entitlement reform? As Coburn said, this is a good program with good intentions, but without proper oversight it can be taken advantage of, especially since once you're on the gravy train it's almost impossible to be thrown off. I don't believe anyone can walk into one of these lawyer's offices and get SSDI, but I do think a little desperation and a little back or knee pain or frequent headaches might convince someone they're worthy of disability insurance, and the lawyers being paid by the federal government are all too happy to oblige.

By the way, the piece linked in the Times article above? It first mentions how anyone trying to save Social Security for the long run is attacked (no surprise there, since the Times writer somehow read the Daily Beast article and concluded that Coburn is 'hostile' toward SS), then lays out his simple plan: increasing the retirement age--no brainer there, people live longer and are largely healthier in their 50's and 60's than in the past--and targeting those who need it, means testing of a sort that should be a slam dunk for liberals. But I guess that's 'hostility' to the Times...

"Yes, and?"


And, that means that it's incorrect to assume that just because 41% of applicants get benefits, that you would have almost a 50/50 chance.


"I'm saying that 41% of people that apply for a cash benefit that has no prerequisites to apply seems to be a very high number. I'm not saying that this number would stay the same if EVERYONE applied for it. "

There's hardly anything that you apply for that has a prerequisite for you to apply. You can apply for anything you want. You just will probably get disapproved for many of those things. For SS disability, anyone could apply, I suppose. But you still have to provide a bunch of info, and the SSA has to check your medical records, determine if you qualify, etc.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

As GOP members go, Coburn is often a terrific voice of reason. I like him.

i did not say kill the program. Twice now, I have clearly and unequivocally stated that the system should remain, but, needs to be stripped down and rebuilt. Many states have done similar with other programs. Yeah, it would work.

You think the states could not handle it? How do you think Medicaid works? Yes, you are ignorant. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or feels like a personal attack. No, I am not calling you stupid. Google the definition of each word.

States are much better equipped to deal with their own populous. Smaller local units run more efficiently and can screen for more abuse. It still would not be perfect, but, would be a huge leap in the right direction.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Anyone know how much a person can make per year being on disability? I think 30 years ago it was a very small amount somewhere about the poverty line. Is this still the case? If so you probably have to live with mom and dad to afford this lifestyle choice.

You think it is that difficult? I have clients whose former employees now live off SS disability. Wifey is a rehab director for a long term care facility. Every day, she sees people who live off SS disability. Every. Day.

Here you go: http://www.ssa.gov/dibplan/dqualify.htm

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'm not sure how it is done all the time and the different states, but when my sister applied it was based on her work history. Just the same as SSI benefits are, so if you worked a lot and made good money, you could get a couple grand a month or so. And in CA it was very difficult for her to get on disability, took her two years before they let her on, and just barley. I won't go into any details, but she died 6 months later in her mid 40's from one of many things that should have been evident and fast tracked her onto this program.

For sure there is a ton of abuse and it should be weeded out and prosecuted. It was shameful to watch that guy squirm when asked about his rubber stamping doctors. But lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here, always seems to be that kind of attitude when some little group is found out in a huge program. If everyone in ca had to go through what my sister did, i cannot imagine that many have fallen through the cracks. But of course there will be groups that band together and just steal, those are the hard ones to ferret out. Perhaps some sort of group that main job is to follow up after the approvals. I know in the old days in workers comp they would try and catch folks doing some heavy lifting or other things that they were supposed to not be capable of.

Workers compensation is abused, but, not nearly to the extent of SSD. I wonder why that is? Could it have anything to do with the fact that workers comp is run by the states (rather than the feds)? Hmmm....

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

"Anyone know how much a person can make per year being on disability?"

I think max disability benefit from SS is around $2400.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)