So you have no concerns that the seller may be trying to get to Kona through the IM Legacy program by getting other people to race for him?

That's ok to you?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

We actually don't know if this is the case or the person just gave his slot away so you are making assumptions here. Not saying if I think it is right or wrong, to be honest I have split thoughts on it. Yes it's breaking the rules so wrong but WTC should also offer a more flexible policy like they do in Europe these days. I've taken advantage of the policy in Europe and will be much more likely to race there in future because of the policy. In one sense they are their own worse enemy and creat situations where this sort of behaviour is likely to happen.

As a poll I'd like to know how many people who are so condeming on this thread have not either raced with someone else number or given their race number to a friend? Not just talking about WTC races or triathlon races but everything from local affairs to major events. I will hold my hand up and say I have done both and on each occassion it was not for any gain whatsoever but just so an entry didn't go wasted. I think sometimes we are on the look out for sinister motives when there may be none.

You are right, I am making assumptions, how about we change my wording to "that the seller may be trying to get to Kona through the IM Legacy program".

I would have a big problem with this if it were true.

And I do think that they could easily offer a more flexible policy on refunds but they don't.

I have given my race bib away to my brother for a half marathon. I didn't think much of it at the time, I probably wouldn't do this again.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

If it is the case of getting a legacy slot then I would have much more of a problem with this also but it just seems unlikely to me although OP may know better.

Re giving my slot to others, yes I would do for local races but not for major ones. Luckily most of the local races where I live are sensible about it and do allow a change in athlete if notified so it's not an issue for the most part. For a one off 10km race or tri sprint I really don't see the harm. Yes I know I will get shot down now by those who say rules are rules and we will hear about Health and Safety but remember these H&S rules vary from country to country. For anyone who does shoot me down I'd like you to honestly answer in the same way BLeP has if you have been involved in a number swap in the past or not

I wouldn't have thought of the Legacy scam if it wasn't mentioned that the seller has lots of money and frequently signs up for IMs then sells his bib whenever he "doesn't feel like racing".

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

So what place exactly is "placing high" and would make it worthwhile? Isn't having some random "high enough place" encouraging stalking? Kyra asked a simple question, unfortunately she forgot that many of the people here are very simple themselves.

And C|earwater's examples are ludicrous -- we are not talking about "government" trying to limit people, this is a corporation setting rules for voluntary participants.

The display of moral relativism by many in this thread is very disheartening.

The "inability" to transfer bibs for non-qualifying events is completely ridiculous. Ive used others numbers and i see no problem with giving or selling bibs and if he's doing it to exploit the legacy program then that's a convenient consequence of IM refusal to do transfers

My initial reaction is that medical issues could easily come up with the "new" bib holder and ALL kinds of crazy issues could play out if bib is not officially transferred. Races like Cherry Blossom allow for proper bib transfers within their system.

1) they don't know person's real medical pre-race conditions
2) original bib holder family could be notified, incorrectly, that "harry" is sick and they need to come quickly
3) under prepared "bandit" racers could attempt an Ironman on insufficient training and the WTC assumes the liability of that racer anyhow because they are there. ( i know...there are lots of otherwise insufficiently trained people on the starting line on race day anyway).

As far as the OP topic...I feel it's plain wrong and no doubt those involved are going to be outed one way or another. Running around bragging about your biking skills and talking publicly about the race assures that to happen.

AmaDablam wrote:

I am more worried about the stalking OP. Who the frick cares if someone who cannot use their entry gives it to a friend? As long as they are not placing high, it does not matter to the OP one bit. Cheating is someone using a slot that was paid for? Give me a break.

i'm kinda with you. i thoroughly enjoyed the T3 'twitch hunt (for its entertainment value)... but this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I'll now confess some of my cheating from this year.

• At my last race, my chin strap was caught on something in my helmet. rather than pull over, fix the problem, and start again, i let the chin strap sit below my bottom lip for a while. at some point, it came untangled an i resumed proper use of the chin strap. What can i say, i'm an adrenaline junkie.
• In April I unstrapped my chin strap before racking my bike in the heat of T2...not like as i entered T2, just as i was standing in front of my rack spot. I DO WHAT I WANT.
• In May i'm pretty sure i followed someone too closely as we passed a big group of people... that's a double whammy. LIVIN ON THE EDGE.
• Oh yeah, can't remember when this was but I went outside the cones to avoid a rider who didn't have much control of their bike. YOLO.

"cheating is cheating" doesn't really work. we're not God judging sin here, we're people calling out other people and we recognize some stuff is worse than others. So if we're saying "cheating is cheating" then i'm going to bet the OP's tabula isn't as rasa as she may think.

This one time i saw a dude running with earbuds during a race.
And i saw someone dismount a little too late into T2 (with no penalty)
At the last swim meet i was at, 60+ year old swimmer didn't touch with two hands on breaststroke.
Should I have gone and told officials?

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-Jason
______________________________________________
Is that all you've got? Are you sure?

[quote
At the last swim meet i was at, 60+ year old swimmer didn't touch with two hands on breaststroke.
Should I have gone and told officials?[/quote]
Yes. My 7 y/o was DQ'd twice in 4 swim meets (summer league) for the same infraction. She ALWAYS hits with two hands now. Right is right.

I wonder if they'll be able to tell who turned them in.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

LoDewey - Corporate civil disobedience happens everyday, and I'd be willing to bet you do it and don't even know it.

The notion that "with your dollars" is the only way to make corporations see their failings is rather limited. Some of the biggest issues in our generation have been solved or highlighted through corporate civil disobedience. So while you blow off what I've said as absurd, here's some forms that might hit a bit closer to home... sound familiar?

- Ever hear of the Greensboro Sit-In's (1960)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins
- Big Names in the Sportswear Industry Changing Because People Challenged Them On Sweatshops http://www.guardian.co.uk/...jul/06/activism-nike
- Have a doctor look at 2 separate things in 1 visit (According to insurance companies, this is to be billed as 2 separate visits)
- Split your cable in your house so that it displays on multiple TV's
- Record music or movies on cassettes, CD's, DVD's, USB drives, to be played in multiple places (at one time this was illegal, now there are fair use laws - guess why?)
- Enter a movie theater with food or drink from somewhere else (in your pocket)
- Holding a "Equal Marriage Rights Kiss In" in Chic-Fil-A to end the companies multi-million dollar funding of anti-gay rights PAC's in Washington DC http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eased_n_1896580.html
- Use your smartphone as a hotspot for your PC to connect to the internet without paying the more recently introduced extra hotspot fee

Please don't tell us these are ludicrous too (all forms of corporate/business civil disobedience). Maybe you don't know of this term for it.

Since we've found the WTC policy doesn't cover it's athletes from bandit accidents, and it's their policy of limited refund / transfer that is the majority factor in causing this activity, it is quite clear what needs to happen. Thinking that "voting with my dollars" by boycotting their races is going to cause WTC to consider fully covering athletes from all circumstances they face in a race is... well, I'll use your word, ludicrous.

I believe this is at least a 1 year ban from WTC races and USAT races. This is a serious issue and how slow someone is not a factor.

I've heard this a lot - "It's ok that my (entourage) is running with me... I'm not qualifying" or "It's ok that (breaking whatever rule) I'm not going to win".

Turn them in. They earned the suspension.

Breaking the rules=cheating=douche=smelly...the whole thing just stinks...

I fully expected this thing to be locked down when I logged in this morning. You guys are really slacking on this one!

ST, I am disappoint.

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VDOT O2 Run Coaching
Team INFINIT Discount Code: RowanJones

txtriathlete wrote:

Yes. My 7 y/o was DQ'd twice in 4 swim meets (summer league) for the same infraction. She ALWAYS hits with two hands now. Right is right.

yeah, there are two reasons for things under the cheating umbrella here: either it affects other people, or it simply violates regulations. One comes into play because it hurts others if you break them. the other just means one didn't follow the standard we all agreed to, but of no consequence to anyone but themselves.

Two-hand touches aren't really an ethical thing. there's no real competitive advantage to touching with your hands .5 seconds apart. but you're a good father and recognize the need to teach her to play by the rules at an early age because it has consequences later in high school and college swimming. Telling her to go have herself DQ'd is completely noble on your part. I personally wouldn't to tell the judges on either your little girl or the old man, however. if the judges missed it, they missed it. I'm not interested in either one of their turns next time they swim. Had they been caught, I too would have said "rules are rules". but there's no competitive advantage to touching asymmetrically. Now, if I had a little girl racing yours, and she was doing 2 dolphin kicks off every wall, yeah i'd tell an official... same goes for the 60 year old man. it made him faster than everyone else following the rules.

So anyway, in my opinion, nobody ever complains if every rule is enforced i.e. 7 y.o. get's dq'd for improper turn. . however, had she incorrectly turned and not been caught by the officials i don't think other parents would have been jumping out of the stands screaming at officials to dq her.

In the case of the bandit racer, i think we have to look at the consequences in hindsight since that's all we have. did he either KQ, do reasonably well in his AG, or cause a wreck? if no, then let's let a dead dog lie. it wasn't right but isn't worth raising a stink over now.

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-Jason
______________________________________________
Is that all you've got? Are you sure?

Thank you for the chuckle.

I'm very sure Kyra is not a cheater. ;)

"Hell no, we don't want a happy ending...we want blood. We want to see race photos. We want public humiliation..well, at least I do." (stringcheese)

Funny!

This ain't going to be popular but I don't know why anyone really cares about a Bib transfer in a Ironman unless it is done for the pure purpose of creating an advantage for the original owner or for the person who receives the transfer. I obviously know it is against the rules.....but really so what?

They will definitely know who turned them in, especially the person who raced. I really wanted to say something during the race, in fact I was just about to find an official when I ran into a friends former coach...I explained the situation and this person said not to bother, they (WTC/USAT) won't do a thing about it, so I dropped it. The sole reason for my post was stated in the first and last question... "What do you feel constitutes cheating....", by no means is this intended to be a witch hunt, if that was my objective I would have given more information so you all would have easily been able to figure out the "guilty" parties.

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"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Kyra: In 7th grade a friend said to me, "I know a girl who is cheating on her boyfriend, should I tell him?" And wouldn't you know it, the girl he was referring to was MY girfriend.

Most people grow out of this behavior. In this particular instance you appearantly have not. You wanted to turn the person in but you were afraid to do the dirty work. I am not sure if it is cheating or not, but I am sure that this was a petty post.

The worry about unexpected medical problems is why they need to allow transfers. You can say dont do it but it really doesn't stop anyone but the hyper righteous follow rules to a T people.

"unfortunately she forgot that many of the people here are very simple themselves." (LoDewey)



Blah, Blah, Blah . . . .!

Do you ever have a point to any of your posts?

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