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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [ericM35-39] [ In reply to ]
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10k is a better predictor of open marathon time then 5k. For triathlon it might follow the same pattern that an oly 10k is a better predictor of IM run potential then and sprint distance 5k.

I'd also say that an olympic tri 10k will be a much better predictor for a HIM then a sprint tri 5k.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [Matafan] [ In reply to ]
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TEST: The HR formula (180-your age +5).

This is an interesting way of writing 185 - your age ;)

LOL, I was thinking the same thing! Glad I wasn't the only one. :-D
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [HR] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, it did help.
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [ericM35-39] [ In reply to ]
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The advantage of an occasional prediction oriented workout is to validate that your training is going the direction you want it to go, also in the context of a race it provides an early pacing guideline such that one does not overcook their potential. I have used similar workouts in the past, and have found them to be valuable tools.

The predictor formula generally works well for me, and would suspect most people.
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [monty] [ In reply to ]
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This is not a new formula, but one I've been using for 10 years now as a coach. I believe I learned it from Mark Allen.//

No kidding it is not new. You may have heard it from Mark, but he got it from Phil Maffetone, probably over 20 years ago. It is as old and outdated as 220 minus your age is, and I believe even Phil has updated this, you should also. It is comon knowledge among coaches and athletes in the know that you cannot use a static mathmatical formula for all athletes. You have to find out at which end of the spectrum your athlete is on before you tailor any plan for them. It is true that any formula will work for a lot of folks, this one actually worked for Mark back in the day. He fell into the heart of it, but a lot of people will not, and you will be hurting them, not helpong them. Just keep in mind that HR's for individuals can vary +/- 50+ beats, or over 30%. That is a huge gap to try and piegon hole a static formula into. If it was just 5 or 10 beats, then it would have been ok, but it is not....

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Just curious, but have you ever had this conversation with Mark Allen? Curious to know why he would still use "outdated" coaching principles.
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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TEST: The HR formula (180-your age +5).

This is an interesting way of writing 185 - your age ;)


LOL, I was thinking the same thing! Glad I wasn't the only one. :-D


Fair enough - the reason is for females it is 180-your age +10 or yes 190 - your age

Richard Pady
http://www.healthyresults.ca - http://www.race4kids.ca
Indoor Rider (weekly indoor riding videos)
Last edited by: HR: Feb 28, 10 18:34
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [HR] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
TEST: The HR formula (180-your age +5).

This is an interesting way of writing 185 - your age ;)


LOL, I was thinking the same thing! Glad I wasn't the only one. :-D


Fair enough - the reason is for females it is 180-your age +10

So . . . for females it's 190 - age? :-)
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [tsmagnum] [ In reply to ]
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Prolly cause he's OLD!

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Just curious, but have you ever had this conversation with Mark Allen? Curious to know why he would still use "outdated" coaching principles.
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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [tsmagnum] [ In reply to ]
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Just curious, but have you ever had this conversation with Mark Allen? Curious to know why he would still use "outdated" coaching principles.
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Have you read some of the stuff Mark has written about coaching, physiology and the application of in context of coaching. It's more of a he gets results, in spite of what he puts out there in writing in the past. Don't confuse success with knowledge.

While I haven't bothered to read anything he has written in the past few years, he communicated quite eloquently his lack of knowledge about the basics of physiology quite well.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [HR] [ In reply to ]
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I enjoy how this conversation went from hey here is what I noticed to & this is how I track progress over time for athletes, to a discussion of validation of what you observed.

What many people should think about in the scope of your post is the fact that you have a test that is repeatable that allows you to evaluate someones pace and provide them with guidelines to their IM run.

While I may disagree with your HR formula for numerous reasons, I like how you have come up with something that puts a hard cap on the upper end of someones pace heading into an IM, and allows them to track that pace race over race to help evaluate how their training is coming along.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: TEST YOUR IRONMAN RUN [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Just curious, but have you ever had this conversation with Mark Allen? Curious to know why he would still use "outdated" coaching principles.
-----------------------------------------------------

Have you read some of the stuff Mark has written about coaching, physiology and the application of in context of coaching. It's more of a he gets results, in spite of what he puts out there in writing in the past. Don't confuse success with knowledge.

While I haven't bothered to read anything he has written in the past few years, he communicated quite eloquently his lack of knowledge about the basics of physiology quite well.
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Hey Brian,

Thanks for the reply. I always enjoy reading the debates about proper coaching/training on ST because it is one of the only places I know where successful professional coaches call out each other's coaching system. It is very interesting to read about how/what the coaches think.

I have my thoughts on this, but I was hoping some of the coaches could give some feedback: Why, if many of these systems are so different, do each have so much success with their athletes? For instance, why does Mark Allen's athletes find so much success when his understanding of physiology is "wrong"?


Also, to somewhat keep things on topic...nice work to the OP. Please keep posting your future results. Very interesting.
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