A picture of your fit on the Tribike would be essential in trying to help.

---

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Have you tried replicating the fit of your road bike on your P3? Seems like it's worth a shot to see if it eases the tension on your hamstrings and allows you to keep riding the P3.

---

"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."

N = 1 experience. I had similar issues 4 to 5 years ago (high hamstring was a mess, both legs), not sure what it was that I read in the interwebs, in fact it might have been something here on Slowtwitch. Anyway, I lowered the saddle on my tri bike a good inch, if not more. Problem solved fairly quickly. Again, N = 1 experience.

---

"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt

Sounds like a fit problem.

I've had high ham and glute issues as well. I do believe that one of the contributing factors was my saddle being too high. After posting a video here, a few folks recommended dropping my saddle by 1 - 2 cm. I'm still trying to get used to it, but it def pulls a bit less on my hamstring.

Your seat is too high. Or you're "powering the upstroke". Or both.

I've had similar flare ups when my seat is too high.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Thank you very much for the comments. Greatly appreciated. I will take some new photos/video and post them.Interesting that my seat could be too high. You would have thought in the 4 bike fits I have had done, someone would have caught that!

What saddles have you tried and what saddle are you currently on? Also, posterior pelvic rotation is critical.

---

blog

I feel you. Training injuries are utterly frustrating. Do you have any discomfort in your glute or calf areas as well, or is it exclusive to the hamstring?

---

---------------------------------------------------------------

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

I had/have the same issue as you. My road bike doesn't bother my hamstrings at all, and even though I tried to replicate my road bike position on my tri bike, they just inherently are different, and the way I ride them are different. I use a combination of things to resolve this:

1. Like others have said, I lowered my saddle a bit. It seemed strange to lower it SO MUCH more than my road bike, so I didn't do anything drastic.
2. I moved my seat forward. I realized I naturally wanted to sit on the tip of my saddle, like power-wise that's where my body wanted to be, but saddle comfort-wise I'd want to settle more towards the middle of the saddle. This was probably the biggest factor issue, because I realized I was really stretching my hamstrings to sit so far rearward.
3. I constantly do eccentic hamstring exercises with actual hamstring curl weight machines. I can't find a good/effective way to do these at home with dumbbells, body weight, or resistance bands, unfortunately. I try to go to the gym 1x per week to do these, in season and out of season.
4. I do a lot of my training on my road bike to switch it up, so I'm not just aggravating all the same muscles all the time. I do do a lot of road bike racing though, so it makes sense for me.
5. Stop stretching and foam rolling my hamstrings. That just made them worse.

I'm sure you've already heard a lot of these suggestions, but this is what I've found to work for me. The saddle fore/aft position was the big "ah hah" moment because it's something that my bike fitter didn't realize because he never sees me in my "tired/sore towards the end of a hard workout" position which was causing problems that my "fresh and I know I'm being watched" position didn't.

---

http://trainingwheelsrequired.wordpress.com
@KellyNCollier

Does it manifest as pain right at the ischial tuberosity?

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I'm curious--what does that pain signify? I continue to experience occasional pain at the ischial tuberosity following high hamstring tear a number of years ago.

---

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

being playfully snarky: stop riding your bike

:)

I've had this twice and both times continued riding exacerbated the situation. I've also advised a few folks (pros included) on this injury. IIRC in all cases staying off the bike for a week or two at the least was part of the prescription.

As for physically what it means... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can only guess inflammation at the attachment point and sitting and grinding on it is doing the healing process no favors.

ETA: If you're on an ISM saddle then place even more weight on not riding to get this healthy

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

For those of you that lowered your seat, can you give approximate resultant knee angles (extended) or, even better, upload images? Thanks!

---

---------------------------------------------------------------

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

i did triathlon all out for 8 years with no injury, then bought a new bike that was bigger and higher saddle, which i did start riding faster with, and got hht a few months later, i think it is just too high of a saddle, my career is over, wont go away after three years, i wouldnt risk getting back into it now if it still hurts

Yes it does. Feels like I am sitting on a golf ball.

I have tried ISM Prologue, ISM PN 1.1 and SMP T3. I am currently using a Fizik Mistica.

The pain is mainly in my glute but also in the bicep femoris (just up from the knee).

Nobody can fix this for you. You need to toughen up your tendon. You can ride your tri bike again. Check the HHT rehab protocol thread (i bumped it).

---

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Thanks. I will check out the other thread. I have been doing hamstring exercises prescribed by a chiropractor/athletic therapist for 2+ years now. I get to the gym 3x a week to do them. Everything was good until I got back on my tri bike again.

your seat is too high...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Have you had any imaging (xray, mri) done? In my case, I have CAM/FAI in the hip which causes one side to not move as well, which I think caused a cascade of issues. But saddle height was also one of them.

Anyway, I would -also- get pain in the bicep femoris just up from the knee, but it would be the next day. So the pain -during- exercise would be at the isch tuberosity, then the next day (doms?) it would be the lower femoris that was sore.

Anyway, aside from lowering the seat, one of the big things for me, was doing a -lot- of strengthening of everything around the hamstring, perhaps to take up some of the work that was hurting the ham previous. A lot of glute exercises, calf exercises, etc.
I'm still not cured and maybe never will be due to my hip issue, but the exercises have helped a lot. And I think that is what someone else mentioned above with the rehab protocol, exercises.

I had some version of this throughout last year, tried all the various exercise recommendations from slowtwitch threads with no success or healing and then finally got my stubborn ass into a running oriented PT in Dec. She diagnosed a strain at my hamstring attachment point, but said my lack of hamstring flexibility was severe enough that the tension was preventing the attachment point strain from being able to heal. Her regimen for me was all about long steady stretching of hamstring as well as groin and glutes, and gluteus medius strengthening (e.g. clamshells with a band). I asked that shouldn't i also be strengthening my hams, and she said it's totally optional for now and if i do it, focus on lightweight, eccentric contraction based exercises. point is to increase flexibility and range of motion as the primary goal.

long story short, the healing massively kicked in within three weeks and i'm now back on the run pain free. can also sit in my office chair again. it's pretty glorious. throughout 2017 i had held off from stretching and just foam rollered, because stretching seemed like it would worsen a strain. boy was i wrong.

May or may not be relevant for you, but seemed worth a share.

Experiencing some hamstring issues aswell lately. Stretching seems to make it worse, so i stopped it. Started doing excentric exercises but seemed to aggravate it aswell.
My hamstring are massivly short, so it seems like a similar story.
Thanks for the info, might try the slow stretching approach again.

I have had two MRIs done that showed the partial tear 3.5 years ago and then the second was done in the spring of 2017 showing the HHT. Years ago I had an x-ray and was told I have coxa profunda (deep acetabular socket) and have wondered if it was a contributing factor?


As for hamstring flexibility, I actually have pretty good flexibility. The rehab exercises I have been doing for a long period of time were given to me be a chiro/athletic therapist/conditioning specialist who is well regarded where I live. He works with elite Canadian athletes so, I honestly feel I have done all the right things....there is just something about my position on my tri bike that really doesn't agree with me. I will post some video/photos on the weekend of my tri bike position but for now I am going to stick with my road bike.


I greatly appreciate all the feedback.

KellyNCollier wrote:

3. I constantly do eccentic hamstring exercises with actual hamstring curl weight machines. I can't find a good/effective way to do these at home with dumbbells, body weight, or resistance bands, unfortunately. I try to go to the gym 1x per week to do these, in season and out of season.

I wanted to touch on this. I've run the gamut of saddle discomfort, also had high hamstring discomfort that showed on an image but what we were primarily looking at was my hips (I'm 10 months PO from labrum/FAI repair). A thing I've learned is that I don't or at least certainly didn't engage my transverse abdominus very well. I've been focusing on that now for months and in doing so I notice a difference in how my soft tissue feels on the saddle and a difference in the amount of strain I feel in my hamstrings. I've been told I have overly flexible hamstrings but a stiff lower back. Basically I'd say I've had un-ideal pelvic tilt. (I ponder the influence of this on my swimming, wicked tight hip flexors, ...).

As another poster said, I find I want to either move my saddle forward or bring my bars back, and possibly up <gasp> as I'm not so good about holding the pelvic rotation over long efforts. Will re-engage with my fitter shortly.

Oh, and as a PS to the OP, I was also on a Cervelo (P2C). I could never have engaged my TA the way I'm trying to now while on my prior bike, the reach was just too long. And I was fit on the Cervelo many times. I'm unsure how good all fitters are at understanding our complaints on saddles, and again as already stated, they can't know what we look like as we fatigue.

---

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

My layman's (but, *sigh*, excessively experienced POV) is that the insertion point from the hamstrings (either of them could be the culprit) is pissed off. Everytime you ride and ESPECIALLY if you are riding on a sitbones saddle (ISM style) then you are really aggravating it and re-inflamming it with every ride. Saddle too high is a symptom but you also have history so not the clearest picture. You need to get that inflammation down and treated. It can be a very humiliating thing getting PT in that area. The first time i encountered this I went months with the issue before it finally healed itself. The second time I went right to my PT and, yeah, his massaging the area in hopes of breaking up scar tissue is embarrassing but the time off the bike was only a week or two and treatments every 3rd day or so. Good luck!

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

do you have any race/fit pics during this time period? i'm curious if it's at all visible "how" you were riding your saddle. either rapp-style (i.e. basically no anterior tilt) or with tilt. i'd assume that a person sitting with tilt is putting less stress on the immediate area of the insertion point but when browsing what pics are available online it almost looks like the more forward you are on your seat bones (i.e. more tilted) the more stress you impart on that specific muscular insertion.

I'd argue tons of tilt. Fitting one another at Austin TriCyclist 15 years ago we all wanted to be "steep and deep" so it was always slam the saddle forward, put on the longest stem you could find, and take out all the spacers. I don't believe I've ever sat "square" on a tri bike.

It'd be interesting to try to aggregate this injury along with athlete fit pics. I wonder if a correlation would emerge.

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I had reattachment surgery for hamstring tendonapathy three months ago and am so glad I did. Long recovery but I feel like a miracle. HHT a bitch of an injury especially when its chronic. Slow twitch has some great old strands that have good information that I used over the years as I battled this. A varieties of factors I believe contributed to mine: run form, tribike, bike fit, pelvic tilt, tight hip flexors, quad dominate, lack of lumbar hip flexion and a heck of a lot of iron training over the years. l had tears on both sides with complete rupture of 2 out of 3 tendons on one side. Over the years I tried everything that the other posters mentioned including: intense physical therapy with all the hamstring protocols, graston, acupuncture, rest, cold laser, ultrasound, cortisone shot when it was at its worst, and 2 rounds of PRP (2 years apart)with tenex procedure. I actually had good results from PRP. I would take off a couple months and do a lot of physical therapy and often get relief. One side remains pain free after 3 years and one side kept flaring up and I just could not get rid of the ridiculous pain. What causes and heals for one person doesn't always work for the next. One of the problems is you start developing scar tissue on the sciatic nerve from this injury so during my reattachment ... two additional hours were spent taking the scar tissue off my sciatic nerve. My run mileage went from in the 40 mile weeks, 30, 20, 10 and pain was terrible running, biking, sitting at work etc. and still no relief. It is hard to find a lot of information on the internet for this but on Facebook there are two "priceless"groups: Proximal hamstring injury and surgery and proximal hamstring Tendinopathy support 2018. These are your people if you want to learn about how to deal with this. You do not want to stretch your way thru this. I'm not sure how competitive you are but perhaps going back to the road bike with clip on arrow bars and a good fit is the way if it really doesn't aggravate you. Many people in the fb group can't do road bike either so in that regard you are lucky. Good luck!