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Couch to KQ in 7 years
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Couch to KQ in 7 years


It was Christmas time of 2010. At 36, I was starting to ā€œoutgrowā€ my size 34 jeans and I tipped the scale over 200lbs. I am 5ā€™-9ā€. My family is obese. I was never really into athletics and playing football in high school doesnā€™t really count anymore at age 36. I told my wife, Diane, that I wanted to start running to lose weight and get healthier. In Jan of 2011 I did just that. I signed up for a 26.2 so I had a goal to shoot for. I finished my first 26.2 in August 2011.
While I was absorbing as much info as I could about running, I would talk with an IM finisher that worked in my wifeā€™s office. She would tell me about how much she and her husband loved riding their bikes, so in Aug of 2011 I bought my first used road bike off of craigslist. It even came with shoes that fit, so I was set. This IM finisher also talked Diane and I into going to Madison to see IMWI that year. WOW! That was the coolest thing I had ever seen. All I needed to do was learn to swim, at age 37, the Monday night after IMWI 2011 was my first night of adult swim lessons.
I really was having a blast with s,b,r. I did a few olyā€™s leading up to my first 70.3 in the fall of 2012. I think I almost killed myself and I went somewhere in the 5:50ā€™s that day. Man that was a rough day. But as we all normally do, a couple days later, I was energized and wanting more. That year I signed up for IMWI 2013. I still remember a pivotal conversation in my development. I went to my weekly adult swim lesson. I never swam that night. Instead I had a great conversation with a Kona qualifier about IM and tri. She told me about a friend of hers that was a coach and that maybe I should talk to him. Heā€™s someone that I hold in very high regards still today. He's a great coach, person, and friend. My first coach was Scott Bowe. STerā€™s might know him as Sentania. My first conversation with Scott was basically this: Iā€™m new to all of this. I donā€™t know where itā€™ll go. Letā€™s see how far we can get me. Scott told me that he had 3 goals for me, get me to the IM start line uninjured, still married, and still employed. He did a great job with all 3. I think one of the biggest things Scott did for me was he kept me from simply training myself into the ground. I continued with my weekly swim lessons up to IMWI 2013 where I went 10:55 (1:22, 5:38, 342) in my first 140.6.
2014 was wash, rinse, and repeat. My guess is that a probably averaged 10 hours training per week for the entire year. I probably maxed out around 17 hours/week. I followed Scottā€™s planning closely. I was getting into multisport pretty deep now and loving every minute of it. I was doing running road races and duathlons as well. My adult swim lessons had come to an end and I was now swimming with a masters group and swimming alone, but following Scotts swim workouts. My swimming improved right along with my cycling and running. In 2014 IMWI I went 10:43 (1:11, 5:29, 3:54). I had experienced some stomach issues at this race again. I started the run feeling like I had just eaten an entire Thanksgiving Day dinner. It was bad. In the finishers shoot, I told Scott that I wasnā€™t going to do this again if we didnā€™t figure out my nutrition. The first thing I did was threw out all my trusted Hammer products. In this off season, I did a very big swim block. 2.5 months of swimming 5 and 6 days per week. This swimming was ā€œoverseenā€ buy a local swim coach that I had hired to help me develop into a competitive level swimmer. Those results were marginal at best.
2015 for some reason I decided it would be a good idea to do 2 IMā€™s. IM Coeur dā€™Alene was in June and IMWI again in Sept. I was really getting into the IM thing and bought my first used tribike off of Craigslist. We started the year with very detailed recording of calories and their stomach affects while doing long rides on the trainer. I was now using Carbo Pro. We found that anything more than 265 calories/hour would upset my stomach. This was tested and proven over many 3-5 hour trainer rides that winter and spring. Some may remember that 2015 IMCda was a pretty hot event. It was the hottest temp ever recorded in Coeur dā€™Alene for any day in June ever. My Garmin 500 said 116*F. That race was so hot I thought that no lessons could be gained from it. I was wrong. I went 12:32 (1:12, 5:53, 5:19). In retrospect I did learn some valuable lessons. I learned that I still needed to learn how to swim competitively. I learned that anytime you start with a plan for an IM that may be a little more than youā€™re capable of, than execute that plan poorly by overriding, the day will end with a lot of walking and suffering. Onto IMWI in fall of 2015. I trained very hard over this summer. I spent a lot of SAUā€™s (spousal approval units) units this year. By the time I got to IMWI, I was mentally on the edge. I had pushed very hard. I probably peaked out with a 4 week block of 18-20 hour/week leading into WI. Prior to IMWI I announced to Diane that the only 140.6 I would be doing the following year was Kona. It was all or nothing for me at that point. 2015 IMWI was a 10:17 (1:13, 5:15, 3:39). It was a good race. I had become a low 10ā€™s guy. I was mentally broken. I was done. I had pushed so hard. I wasnā€™t even close to a KQ. 13 minutes off the last KQ slot might as well be forever at that point. I swam my ass off in training, and now I am moving backwards in the water. Shorter races donā€™t allow me to make up enough time to overcome the loss in the water, and my competition is too strong in the longer races. Game over. I cancelled my pool membership. I declared myself a Duathlete. Scott (my coach) and I went separate ways. That next month was terrible for me. I was really in a dark place. I did some riding. Absolutely zero swimming. I ran a fair amount. Whatever. None of it really meant anything to me. Then I threw myself ā€œon the swordā€ and mentioned to Diane that I was kicking around signing up for IMWI 2016. That was not a very happy conversation. I was an emotional wreck.
I started swimming again, still on my own, about 5 weeks post IMWI. One of the costs to doing IMWI I had imposed on my marriage had been skipping a tandem cycling event the week before IMWI every year. I had promised Diane we would attend that event in 2016, so I registered for IMLou instead of IMWI. I needed to be registered for an IM. It has become part of who I am. I started 2016 being a self-coached athlete. I was training every day. I was using some of the old plans for me from Scott. Things were kind of going so-so. Diane could see that too. She told me one day that if I was going to continue to do this stuff that I should probably take it seriously and hire a coach again. This time I interviewed probably 5 different coaches. I decided on working with JonnyO. My first workout under Jonnyā€™s guidance was August 1 of 2016. My plan was to try to hit 2017 hard enough to KQ and figured that having an IM together with my new coach in 2016 would allow us to learn each other through a ā€œpractice runā€. Training in the late summer and fall of 2016 leading into IMLou became the life focus again. Big weeks and lots of hard work. Maxed out at 21 hours and 1100+ tss. 2016 IMLou was 9:53 (1:07, 5:02, 3:33). A pretty good race. A sub 10! 15 minutes from a KQ. I can run and I can bike, I canā€™t swimā€¦still.
Continuing to do the same things over and over and expecting a different result is insanity. After IMLou 2016 I searched out 1 on 1 swim help again. I found someone to work with. This swim coach and I had many 60 minute 1/1ā€™s. First we started twice per week, at $55 a pop. Then we cut back to once per week. I probably spent over $1200 on swim coaching. I also spent a whole lot of time in the pool. I have continued to visit him on occasion in a group setting for the remainder of the year.
One doesnā€™t get onto the train with JonnyO running things if youā€™re not driven to work hard and succeed. IMWI 2017 was now my life goal to KQ. Any and every decision made was to be based on how it would affect my A race. 2017 was going to be my year.
2017 Starts with IM Madison 70.3: I knew from the registered athlete list that some pretty big names in M40-44 were going to be racing. I also knew that if I wanted to KQ in IMWI 2017, Iā€™d have to prove myself as being able to race with these big dogs because they were going to be there as well. My coach (JonnyO) and I, put together a very conservative race plan because it was HOT that day. I finished 19 OA and 6 AG! That was a huge confidence booster for me.
Next up: Door County 70.3 2017: An absolutely beautiful race day temp wise. Soo windy that the RD shortened the swim from 1.2 miles to the day beforeā€™s sprint course of 400yrds. It was a very rough 400 yrds but I told myself that if I survive it, Iā€™ll never come out of the water that close to the leaders, so in the water I went. I pushed real hard on the bike. I had just caught #1+2 OA on the bike course at mile 35, hit a bump I wasnā€™t expecting, and over the bars I go at 35mph! BUMMER!! No broken bones, thank God, but a lot of road rash. My first DNF.
IMWI 2017: My A race for 2017. 6 weeks post crash. Swimming is swimming, Iā€™m on a new bike and running strong. I feel great. That is until my left hamstring flared up 2.5 weeks prior to IMWI. I didnā€™t freak out. I got help for it. I didnā€™t run for 1 week. My coach helped me through this difficult time perfectly. I rolled right into the taper and started to really feel good again. I was going to race IMWI hard and the hamstring would hold on or it wouldnā€™t. I had a pretty good day. The hamstring held on. I went 10:01 for #6AG. It was a good day for me, but still a little short for the KQ. I knew that M40-44 was stacked this year. I did the best I could on that day. Now what?
After a few days, I talked about the situation with my coach JonnyO. A 5 week turnaround to race IMLou would be tricky. I needed to rest and recover, but not lose any fitness. Iā€™m in.


2017 IMLOU race report
Recovery from IMWI was quick. I felt great 1 week post-race. 10 days post-race I was hitting hard workouts again and feeling strong. For those that like the numbers:

Week 1 = 4.5 hrs +321 tss

Week 2 = 13 hrs + 853tss

Week 3 = 14.5 hrs +994 tss

Week4=12 hrs+717 tss

Week 5=14 hrs +935 tss includes the IMLou race

I was very confident in my fitness 3 weeks after IMWI untilā€¦the last long ride on the Saturday 2 weeks before IMLOU. It was a great ride, .8 IF (240 NP)for 4 hours. I did it. It was a great ride. It absolutely sapped me. Week 4 I started to ease into a taper that continued and accelerated into week 5. I really mentally felt flat. I wasnā€™t burnt out or hurt, just lacking any pop about anything really. This is IM # 7 for me. I know the drill. I did Louisville last year. Just get it done I kept telling myself. Nothing really to note pre-race other than I flatted my front tire in the hotel parking lot heading to drop the bike off. Oh well, better today than tomorrow I tell myself. Writing down my estimated times for my wife, I tallied up a 9:40. I was almost shocked by that. I still doubted my capabilities to pull that off.

This year the swim start was changed from a first come single file line to one that was self-seeded swim time single file line. Even swimming a 1:05, that moved me way up in the line from where I started last year. That was a huge help with congestion for me on the course. My swim was pretty uneventful. 2.4 miles is a long distance to swim. I somehow managed a 1:03.

T1 was smooth. I grabbed my stuff without issues. I had a volunteer hold my bike near the mount line as I put my shoes on and off I went.

Bike: My plan was to ride 220 NP all day. We upped my calories a bit from WI to try to set me up for a better run. I had 2 bottles of Carbo Pro mixed with Gatorade and emptied salt stick capsules for a total of 1750 calories and a planned ride of 5 hours. The bike was normal for an IM. A few blatant drafters, that I always call out when I can, hardly any course marshals, a few people riding in the middle of the road, some wind gusts, some hills, and lots of people sitting upright on their TT bike. The bike was fine until my stomach started to feel just a smidge off around mile 100, so I backed off just a bit and road into T2 about 15 watts lower than the rest of the ride. Bike split of 4:54, 219NP, 214AW, all calories in.

T2 was smooth again, not crowded at all :) ļŠ

Run: Heading out onto the run course I knew one of the mistakes I made in WI was one that most of us do, I ran the first mile or 2 way too fast. I really concentrated on keeping the pace in check as most of the first mile at Lou is up hill to boot. I thought I could run a 8:00 pace for the entire 26.2, so I didnā€™t really want to go any faster than 7:45 for the first 13.1. I saw my wife at mile 1 and she informed me that I was showing as number 7 AG. That wasnā€™t really what I wanted to hear. I had hoped to had picked off a few more spots on the bike, but oh well. About 5 miles into my run, the expected front swept through the area. As I was trying not to be blown off the run course, my heart went out to the many people still out on their bikes. It had to have been scary out there. It was almost scary running with so much debris blowing, it was crazy. But thankfully the temp dropped around 15 degrees in 30 minutes, from a warm day to a great running temp day. Anyways, I was successful in keeping my pace in check. About half way back to the far turn around, mile 17ish, still feeling good, I decided that the time was right to take the chains off and run however my body wanted to run. Continuing to feel good into the low 20ā€™s I tried to push my pace a bit. I concentrated on driving with my legs and relaxing my upper body and NOT slowing down. It was hard, but I felt good for the entire run. This is a TT race, youā€™ve got to go hard all the way through the finish line, and I did just that. 3:23 run with a negative split!

Overall time of 9:30:44, that still feels weird to type and say.

I ended up #5 ag in M40-44. There were 4 slots and I very excitedly took a roll down slot and

I AM GOING TO KONA!!!



I didnā€™t write all of this for the purpose of ā€œLook at meā€. Iā€™m just some average guy. I wrote this to give anyone else out there who may be wondering how in the world can I ever get there, my story. What I did do, was I took the KQ process very seriously. I found great coaches and did what they said. I trained very seriously, every day, day after day after day, month after month and year after year. I also surrounded myself with very supportive and loving friends that share a passion for s,b,r. I have spent an awful lot of capital on this chase. It has cost a fair amount of $$. It has cost a fair amount of good will at times with Diane, who I am blessed to still be able to call my wife. I have missed things in life that I had no time for, because of a training schedule. I am very fortunate. I am healthy. I am very proud of my KQ. I am looking forward very much to the Kona experience. I am also glad that I can now allow myself to step off of the KQ treadmill. I love the sbr lifestyle, but sometimes trying to get to Kona got old.

I hope this helps anyone that might be on this journey. I say, find a great coach. Do what they say. Be honest with them. Time is too valuable to be training without a clear direction. There will be no shortcuts. This may take years. Try not to get discouraged. A goal that is easy to reach may not be worth it. Aim high and tri. Who knows where you may find yourself someday.
Feel free to ask any questions from this regular guy.





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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Mad props

Great result
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats. Thatā€™s a heck of a journey, you earned it.

Matt
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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key take homes:

you made life decisions based on your A race
you trained consistently year in and year out for 6-7 years
you hired a great coach
you had some sort of genetic "gift" seeing that you did your first ironman in sub 11 with no real swimming, cycling, or running background.

congrats man, but stop posting stories like this. you're giving other people hope and motivation, which subsequently reduces my kq chances lol
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome. Well done and mucho congrats!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Great work. That's quite a journey and commitment - you earned that one big time!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Ktri wrote:
At 36, I was starting to ā€œoutgrowā€ my size 34 jeans and I tipped the scale over 200lbs. I am 5ā€™-9ā€.

Congratulations. That is an amazing story and journey. I'm curious how much weight you lost in the process?
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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What a great post and story - thank for sharing! Appreciate the spirit it in which it is offered - you don't really know what you're capable of until you commit to finding out. And of course, congratulations on your Kona qualification!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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nice work, congratulations.

I went hard for a KQ in '89 and missed by 1 spot in 2 races (back then most slots were at "half ironmans").

I got my KQ this year at CDA - enjoy the "high" it IS worth it. You unearthed a talent for endurance sports, and, deserve to revel in the accomplishment.

I have to chuckle at your comments on '15 IM CDA. I was there and yeah, it was hot. Ironically it was my fastest IM (and my first). Still missed KQ by 4 spots. Last year I was "lackluster," Same for this year, but, gutted out a KQ anyway. I really sucked at Kona - oh well...

Enjoy the journey (ye ha!)

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Always love these threads! Congrats man.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations and you gave this regular guy dreaming of KQ someday a lot of inspiration!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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I got choked up reading this. Your perseverance, dedication, and fight are very inspirational. My hat is off to you. Congratulations!!



This is very good timing as I'm less than 2 weeks away from my first IM. Thank you for the inspiration.

blog
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [writhe] [ In reply to ]
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That first year was the biggest decline for me in weight. I probably lost 20 pounds the first year. It was kind of funny though, I hate clothes shopping almost more than anything and my wife would only let me wear baggy saggy stuff for so long so I was forced into a new wardrobe. The second year I lost another 10. Which painfully meant more new clothes :( But by then I was amassing a great number of race shirts which still make up most of my wardrobe now.
Weight has been something I have struggled with. Not because I'm "fat", but I believed that in order to race at your potential, especially on a hillier bike course, it would be best to be at ones lightest. I have floated 165-170 for probably 5 years now. This year I went so far as to stop bringing any money with me to work as that was the only way to keep me out of the vending machines or cafeterias. My packed lunch was appropriate for me. I saw 160.5 on the scale this year after a long hot workout once. I raced IMWI this year around 166. After that race I let my hunger drive my intake. I raced IMLou 5 weeks later at 170. I now think that there are some little things that make big differences and there are some little things that we may put huge efforts into that really make no difference at all. Weight may be one of the later.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Mixed feelings about this story. Sounds like you feel it was worth it but it sounds like you and your wife gave up alot. Is a KQ that great a thing?

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [len] [ In reply to ]
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I am being 100% honest with the posting of my story, and I'm not making any larger statement of fact for anyone else other than what my own experiences have been. I didn't write this story to get big props to myself. I wrote this to let anyone else out there that may be wondering about their own future thinking they are alone or wondering where to go next. Thankfully my wife hasn't left me. I have bruised our marriage along the way. You can say, well if its not IM it'll be something else. It could be, but it wasn't. For me, this didn't come easy. We don't have kids and my wife works from home. We go to bed together every night and we get up together every morning. For quite some time now, we were in bed 7:30-8:00 and always up at 4:00am. That was really the only way I could get in that morning workout prior to work, work all day, then be able to do another workout in the pm. It gets lonely. It got lonely for Diane as well. This was just the daily routine.
I am very proud of my KQ. I feel like I have squeezed every last bit of toothpaste from my tube. To get any more paste to come out would take an amount of cost that I am simply not willing to give. That cost comes in many different forms. I am going to Kona to enjoy my accomplishment. I look forward to using my fitness to do some other things that I haven't allowed myself to do. I am not going to Kona to try to win, or even be competitive. I have concluded that for me, those costs are simply to high.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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This is a really awesome story and congrats on your qual and upcoming trip to Kona. You made so many sacrifices along the way and really deserve it.

But it may or may not be applicable to everyone in terms of "hope". From couch potato you went to a 3:42 run at IMWisconsin in your first IM. This means that you not only had massive dedication, but you picked the right parents for a half decent genetic starting point for long racing. More power to you. Some people no matter how much dedication will ever get there. So for some the "hope" may be legit, for others, it may be impossible.

FYI, I went 10:30 in my first IM and it took me to my 12th to Kona qual. A bunch of near misses along the way (including one by 8 seconds), but I would say number 5-10 I did not really put the full heart+soul+dedication into it and for 1-5 I was mainly focused Olympic tri racing and just kind of winged the long day at the IM. 11 and 12, I went all in and got the qual. But I clearly had a good genetic starting point. I have sone friends who probably trained as much over that time and never came within 2 hours of a qual. Thankfully there is now the legacy athlete program for them and rightfully so.

Enjoy the trip to Kona and everything it has to offer.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome, Just awesome.

Well done. An absolute inspiration to read.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Really awesome, inspiring story. I am three years into tri...got into it a lot later in life than you, but also to drop weight and get a healthier lifestyle (smoking three cigars on a Saturday was not an achievement to be proud of). I've got nowhere near the times you've got, but 4 70.3;s and 3 140.6's into the journey has told me it's the journey as much as the destination...and each of ours is different and challenging in its own way. Thanks for sharing yours.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [globetrotterjon] [ In reply to ]
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Great read. Just finished my first year of racing and have been thinking (especially after Kona) about the time/commitment level that'll be required to reach that level of competition. Your story injects a good dose of raw, candid realism into it.

Congrats both to you as well as your wife! : ) Diane sounds like a serious champ!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [globetrotterjon] [ In reply to ]
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Nice work!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
key take homes:

you made life decisions based on your A race
you trained consistently year in and year out for 6-7 years
you hired a great coach
you had some sort of genetic "gift" seeing that you did your first ironman in sub 11 with no real swimming, cycling, or running background.

congrats man, but stop posting stories like this. you're giving other people hope and motivation, which subsequently reduces my kq chances lol

Dont give up hope! No more rock climbing! Only biking this year!

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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"Persistence will get you everywhere young man"

Gord Downie






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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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I posted earlier above, and again kudos for the great, sustained hard work. But as mentioned above, it's worth considering the counterpoint as well despite being ST-approved to train 18-22 hrs per week as an AGer. There's no way I could commit to that many hours training while working a 8-5PM job and with a young kid in tow.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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To give you some perspective. 18-21h was is peak weak during the ironman build and it was only for a couple weeks.

if we take the year avg hour....we are around 11h week. that include week off etc. So a more realistic avg was in the 12-13h.

is it possible to go to kona with a family, kids, and professional job. well, if you have some kind of background we can exploit... it make it a lot easier. if it s starting from zero.... it as to be a 5-10 year plan because it s definitly a long term project. if you are a hard working and disciplinated person....genetic isnt a big factor in this equation.

but in the case of kevin...now that he is at KQ level.... he dosnt need to do as many hours to hold that level anymore.... he could ride that wave for a few years on less hours and a bit more normal life. It s the improving and breakthrough work that take the big hours...

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Last edited by: jonnyo: Oct 22, 17 21:38
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Hi, great story.

My story is somewhat comparable, especially concerning the focussation and the frustrations underway, although I needed 10 years until I finally KQd last year (M55) for Kona 2017 (which I did thus 10 days ago).

I found since 3 years the solution to the stagnation I had before. I found the solution myself and in the years before I tried it which coaches which did not help though but costed me (besides money) only time because they did not see what I did wrong.

Congratulations, and have a lot of fun preparing for Kona.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Preface: there has to be some factors that just make it almost impossible. Iā€™m not sure of this individualā€™s make up (weight, height, athletic ability), but it has to (Iā€™d assume) to fall within a range to make this possible.

To add: I have zero ambitions to go to Kona, but...

Question: Iā€™m 5ā€™11ā€ 220lbs (muscular) with a hockey playing background (high level). Currently have been ā€œtrainingā€ for about 3 years. Not ā€œeliteā€ level (or even really competitive level: 25mpw), but getting in shape (weights, running, biking, very little swimming). I can swim (in a pool) a mile in 30-35 minutes (no flip turn). Run 4 miles daily, and my average is 8:30/mi. Iā€™ve put down faster (7:50min/mile over 10km). Biking is decent (did 2:40+ in NOLA 70.3 in SHITTY wind).

Is there a hope for someone built like me, or are we (big guys) basically fucked? (Or would I have to lose a shit load of muscle to drop weight to have a chance...cause that ainā€™t happening)?

From a coaches perspective, do you hate to see someone of my build walk through your door and say ā€œ I want Kona!ā€ ? How long of a ā€œplanā€ would someone of my build need?
Last edited by: Culley22: Oct 22, 17 22:14
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
To give you some perspective. 18-21h was is peak weak during the ironman build and it was only for a couple weeks.

if we take the year avg hour....we are around 11h week. that include week off etc. So a more realistic avg was in the 12-13h.

is it possible to go to kona with a family, kids, and professional job. well, if you have some kind of background we can exploit... it make it a lot easier. if it s starting from zero.... it as to be a 5-10 year plan because it s definitly a long term project.

^ These are also exactly my figures.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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For a hockey player...meaning not fat but muscle build
-clean diet
-high mileage running (progressive)
-no weights

your body will melt and change significantly over the years. would it be enough to be competitive and KQ? well, that, we simply dont know and i cant give any guaranty on this. That why we focus on loving the process.....and hopefully the outcome will be good!

But that s rarely something i would ask a potential new athlete, i dont care about body build...i m a big driver of ATTITUDE. if you have the right attitude, commitment, dedication.... it s gonna be fun! And those personality characteristic is what KTRI as......very strongly ingrained in him,

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing your story! It really gives us the guys with some good gene but not a natural superstar some hope! Me too started my triathlon ā€œcareerā€ in 2010 by learning swim and joining a run clinic. 2013 I did my first IM (mont tremblant) in 11:13. And I have done 1 full IM a year since. And my best time and ranking was IM Muskoka 10:34 (10th in AG).

But then life (3 kids) and work (9-5) got into the way and I couldnā€™t commit as much training hours as I did in 2015. After 5 full IM, I was almost ready to call it done. But the. Watching this yearā€™s epic KONA got me thinking about KQ again.

Hereā€™s a specific question for you. How do you interview the 5 coaches and decided to go with JonnyO? And how did you choose your 1:1 swim coach? Iā€™ve always been self-coaching myself in terms of triathlon and have hired a private swim coach to help my strokes occasionally. But never had a long term tri/swim coach like you did. And I truly believe thatā€™s what holding me digging into my potential.

Hereā€™s a little bit about my best performances so far: 1:09 swim at IM Whistler last year, 5:26 bike at IM Muskoka 2015, 3:46 run at Whistler last year. My best open marathon was 2:49 in 2015, but I could never run well in an IM.

After reading this inspiring post, I believe I still have a shot in my future. Iā€™m open for any suggestion from anyone. Thanks!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:

For a hockey player...meaning not fat but muscle build
-clean diet
-high mileage running (progressive)
-no weights

your body will melt and change significantly over the years. would it be enough to be competitive and KQ? well, that, we simply dont know and i cant give any guaranty on this. That why we focus on loving the process.....and hopefully the outcome will be good!

But that s rarely something i would ask a potential new athlete, i dont care about body build...i m a big driver of ATTITUDE. if you have the right attitude, commitment, dedication.... it s gonna be fun! And those personality characteristic is what KTRI as......very strongly ingrained in him,

Thanks for taking the time to respond (itā€™s one reason I love this place), and it is a great response: ā€œlove the processā€.

Iā€™m not interested in Kona, but now some my size have an answer!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting read! And very honest.
FIrst off huge congratulation on the achievement!

Second: I know anything could take its toll on marriage, e.g. being lazy on the couch all day, not being romantic/doing stuff with your wife/husband etc. but i really feel like you need an incredible support from your closest to do this, not only support but also understanding. Because why should someone be with a person that uses the weekend on training instead of doing fun things with you SO? (not saying you should do that all the time, but it also compromises e.g. taking 3 weeks off travelling around the world). Thus nice with a realistic story! Hope you enjoy it and have a nice Kona race!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on your achievement. I have similar goals in mind and we share a similar story as well, although my IM attempts this year have been well.. underwhelming (self coached). Your story gives me renewed assurance that in this crazy competitive AG 40-44 it can be done! Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome story dude, congrats.

Also I'm stealing this: SAUā€™s (spousal approval units)
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Culley22 wrote:
Preface: there has to be some factors that just make it almost impossible. Iā€™m not sure of this individualā€™s make up (weight, height, athletic ability), but it has to (Iā€™d assume) to fall within a range to make this possible.

To add: I have zero ambitions to go to Kona, but...

Question: Iā€™m 5ā€™11ā€ 220lbs (muscular) with a hockey playing background (high level). Currently have been ā€œtrainingā€ for about 3 years. Not ā€œeliteā€ level (or even really competitive level: 25mpw), but getting in shape (weights, running, biking, very little swimming). I can swim (in a pool) a mile in 30-35 minutes (no flip turn). Run 4 miles daily, and my average is 8:30/mi. Iā€™ve put down faster (7:50min/mile over 10km). Biking is decent (did 2:40+ in NOLA 70.3 in SHITTY wind).

Is there a hope for someone built like me, or are we (big guys) basically fucked? (Or would I have to lose a shit load of muscle to drop weight to have a chance...cause that ainā€™t happening)?

From a coaches perspective, do you hate to see someone of my build walk through your door and say ā€œ I want Kona!ā€ ? How long of a ā€œplanā€ would someone of my build need?

I love it when I get someone like you with a massive athletic background (high level hockey) and what looks like a very very decent engine if your runs at 8:30 at 220 lbs at 5'11'. Over a multi year plan, this is the exact person who ends up going to Kona after the muscle gradually comes off with all the endurance training. If I get another person who is 5'11" and 165 lbs and he's running 8:30, this is going to be a bigger (and maybe impossible challenge). The 220 lbs guy, is like being given a diamond mine where you know there are diamonds, you just need to mine it. My 2 cents is that you are at one of the best starting points to eventually get to Kona. Also need to swim a decent amount over the next bunch of years. You can't swim 90 min for an IM and qualify for Kona without being the fastest bike-runner in your age group. But you're exactly the type of athlete who can get into the right range.....then it is executing the perfect race and cross fingers on who else shows up or not.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [tie3] [ In reply to ]
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tie3 wrote:
Thanks for sharing your story! It really gives us the guys with some good gene but not a natural superstar some hope! Me too started my triathlon ā€œcareerā€ in 2010 by learning swim and joining a run clinic. 2013 I did my first IM (mont tremblant) in 11:13. And I have done 1 full IM a year since. And my best time and ranking was IM Muskoka 10:34 (10th in AG).

But then life (3 kids) and work (9-5) got into the way and I couldnā€™t commit as much training hours as I did in 2015. After 5 full IM, I was almost ready to call it done. But the. Watching this yearā€™s epic KONA got me thinking about KQ again.

Hereā€™s a specific question for you. How do you interview the 5 coaches and decided to go with JonnyO? And how did you choose your 1:1 swim coach? Iā€™ve always been self-coaching myself in terms of triathlon and have hired a private swim coach to help my strokes occasionally. But never had a long term tri/swim coach like you did. And I truly believe thatā€™s what holding me digging into my potential.

Hereā€™s a little bit about my best performances so far: 1:09 swim at IM Whistler last year, 5:26 bike at IM Muskoka 2015, 3:46 run at Whistler last year. My best open marathon was 2:49 in 2015, but I could never run well in an IM.

After reading this inspiring post, I believe I still have a shot in my future. Iā€™m open for any suggestion from anyone. Thanks!

Tie3.....if you can swim 1:09, ride 5:26 in Whistler and run an open marathon in 2:49, you have the tools to get it done. Can I ask if you are relatively faster on Olympic and Half IM (those two straddle the duration of your 2:49 marathon) vs IM? Height-Weight-%fat? Also what age group?
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Durhamskier wrote:
Awesome story dude, congrats.

Also I'm stealing this: SAUā€™s (spousal approval units)

It's been an Endurance Nation term for a while. I use it all the time too.



Ktri, mad props for doing what many of wish we could do. Thanks for sharing. I think the common theme remains the
commitment and dedication needed for consistent training. Injuries and setbacks happen to us all, but you need to persevere.
The weight loss started with that mindset to get the hours in and keep at it. Consistently getting up early day after day can break you mentally
but getting the workouts done when you can is necessary for the improvement.

Interesting to note the fact that there were plateaus and breakthroughs. Curious as to what the perception was as to 'why' they breakthroughs
happened...

You cannot downplay the need of having a support system that allows for the process, otherwise you will break a marriage/relationship.

Life always involves choices between risks and benefits. You made solid choices. Well done.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Hard work pays off.

Congrats!!
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Tie3.....if you can swim 1:09, ride 5:26 in Whistler and run an open marathon in 2:49, you have the tools to get it done. Can I ask if you are relatively faster on Olympic and Half IM (those two straddle the duration of your 2:49 marathon) vs IM? Height-Weight-%fat? Also what age group?

Thanks, Dev! My fastest 70.3 was 4:41 on a pancake flat course last year (38 min swim, 2:28 bike and 1:29 run). I'm 5'6", 140 lbs this year (5-10 lbs lighter when I ran the 2:49 marathon). Fitbit Aria says my body fat is around 9% (not sure how trust-worthy that is). And I'm in AG M40-44.

(The 5:26 bike split was from Muskoka 2015, I bonked in bike at Whistler last year coming from Toronto area unprepared for the real mountains.)
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Great story and nice writing! I would think about half the people who KQ have similar stories.
I shared your post with a few friends who need the inspiration.
You've also mastered the Slowtwich Kona brag. Welcome to the club, you earned it.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Hi JonnyO, great coaching and dedication from your athlete=great results.

I will be training for mi first Ironman (IM Hamburg in July 2018) and was wondering how many hours/meters are the recommended avg. for swim training.

I have done 5 70.3's so far (best swim 37 mins) and avg. swim training is 7000m spread in 3 sessions.


Love the Pain!

Quito-Ecuador
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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so in Aug of 2011 I bought my first used road bike off of craigslist. It even came with shoes that fit, so I was set.

Imagine how much time you could have saved trying to qualify if you had bought a $5,000 bike, top of the line sunglasses and an aero helmet...

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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Great story. Huge congrats! You never gave up. My story touches your CDA.

2014 first IM, IMCDA 10:33, was 13th M40-44
2015 second IM, IMCDA 10:27- I know what you mean by HOT, was there, funny I never felt hot, just put my head down and did what I have to do to get through, was 13th M45-49
2016 third IM, IMAZ, 9:57, at mile 16 on the run, tore left adductor longus, rectus abdominis and hip labrum, still ran 3:42

Year off and PT. First 3mi run two days ago. Kona is the reason I want to come back. Kona keeps me going, not sure if it will ever happen but I will try until I no longer have anything left to give.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [tie3] [ In reply to ]
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I will say this for me, I NEVER would have been able to accomplish what I have without a coach. NEVER EVER, EVER. There are just too many training nuances and pitfalls and wasted time for me to have been able to do it myself. I don't think it's about putting in the time. I think it's about putting in the time at the correct intensity for the appropriate duration for the workout, again and again. All this in a rhythm and progression. That was way too many moving pieces for me to figure out and do everyday.

The tri coach search went like this. I made a list of questions, some like these: Have you fired an athlete, why? Cost? Contract? Openings? TP, Excel, Race Day? Weekly scheduling? Limits on contact? Train with HR? Is a PM required? I used the search function here on ST. I asked around locally for referrals. I probably compiled a list of 7-8 names. I contacted them all via email to set up phone call appointments. I had one email me back saying he had no openings, great, one down. After narrowing the list from the interviews I used the search function and read probably 50 pages of posts from Jonny. I determined that we shared training philosophies. A friend of mine, Matt Barcus, had met Jonny at a training camp and told me that he was very impressed by him. Jonny had an opening and we decided to team up.

The swim coach thing was a little more trying. I had done 3 one hour swim evaluations that didn't really produce any results. I hired one swim coach a while back. She taught me how to swim a swim workout, but really didn't teach me how to swim. I have swam with an all inclusive tri team weekly in the winter, but receive no technical input there. Knowing that swimming was my weak link, prior to IMLou 2016 I started to amass a list of names from local referrals of swim coaches. I was going to find one that helped me. I'm black or white, no gray area for me. I asked a really nice Olympic trials swimmer for help, he in turn referred me to a swim coach. That's how I found him. He helped a lot. I also reached a point of diminished returns with him. I had kind of blown off the video review offer that Jonny had made to me. I figured how could he see anything that my coach on the deck was missing. Ya, I should have sent Jonny a video way prior to when I did. Live and learn. Be methodical.
Last edited by: Ktri: Oct 23, 17 15:56
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you so much, Kevin! This is really helpful! You send me onto the right track.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure of the font color, sarcasm or not?

That road bike introduced me to cycling. It was an activity I hadn't been exposed to before. Funny thing is that I live in an area of excellent cycling. I still have and ride in those shoes. That bike has been sold. It was a smidge too big for me. Once I realized how much I had fallen in love with cycling and how I wanted to become competitive in multisport, I bought my first tri bike, again off craigslist. It was a used Transition that was pretty well tricked out, it even had a PM. It cost more $$ than I ever imagined me spending on a bicycle. A few years later after not riding my road bike, I decided it was time to upgrade that. I bought another real nice used road bike off craigslist. All was great and moving in the right direction until my crash this year. My Transition suffered no structural damage to the frame. What it did suffer from was a loss in confidence from me. Being that I was all in on the KQ thing, I once again returned to craigslist for a new used tri bike. I found an awesome P5. Being all in, I shrugged off the cost($5000+).

I believe that to KQ in M40-44 you need to have good, modern equipment. You need to have a setup that is fit well and aero. I do have aero skewers. Are they required, no. Do they help, maybe. Are they worth it? That's for the individual to decide. I will say that I made the decision to shelve my disc and use a wheel builder cover for both IM's this year as my P5 came with a ENVE 6.7 wheelset. I ran my Knight 95 up front. After my crash, I bought a new aero helmet and trisuit. I used a UFO chain I got on clearance from the TriSports fire sale. Most importantly of all, I made damn sure that I didn't come up out of the aero bars unless I was going slow enough for it not to matter. I do think equipment matters.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [tie3] [ In reply to ]
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You said:
Hereā€™s a little bit about my best performances so far: 1:09 swim at IM Whistler last year, 5:26 bike at IM Muskoka 2015, 3:46 run at Whistler last year. My best open marathon was 2:49 in 2015, but I could never run well in an IM.

I believe best performances in individual splits may mean a little something, but one can have a huge impact on another. Would you tell us what the full split story of the IM's in 15 and 16 were? A 2:49 is nothing to sneeze at. What AG?
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Ktri wrote:

I believe best performances in individual splits may mean a little something, but one can have a huge impact on another. Would you tell us what the full split story of the IM's in 15 and 16 were? A 2:49 is nothing to sneeze at. What AG?

2015 Ironman Muskoka, 10:34 (1:10, 5:26, 3:50), 10th in M40-44;
2016 Ironman Canada, 10:48 (1:09, 5:46, 3:46), 11th in M40-44
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [tie3] [ In reply to ]
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tie3 wrote:
Ktri wrote:


I believe best performances in individual splits may mean a little something, but one can have a huge impact on another. Would you tell us what the full split story of the IM's in 15 and 16 were? A 2:49 is nothing to sneeze at. What AG?


2015 Ironman Muskoka, 10:34 (1:10, 5:26, 3:50), 10th in M40-44;
2016 Ironman Canada, 10:48 (1:09, 5:46, 3:46), 11th in M40-44

If you are 10 lbs lighter than your 2:49 marathon, then 3:30 marathon SHOULD be achievable. It would be interesting to understand what your big swims look like and same with your bike weeks and FTP and what NP you rode at. Not sure if you are over swimming and it is biting you during the tail end of the bike or if you are over biking and it's biting you, or if your energy expenditure/nutritional strategy is not panning out. By the way, I have seen a lot of peers our size (5'6" and 140ish lbs) really underachieve the IM marathon relative to sub 2:50 open marathons. Or maybe that's my excuse, but I've seen lots of us underachieve on the IM run. I am probably the poster boy for my IM runs never getting anywhere close to what should happen based on open marathon, half IM and olympic runs.

In any case based on the splits and background I don't think you are in the camp of someone with a ton of low hanging fruit where you can shave a ton of time with better training and optimizing body fat composition (you don't have 30 lbs to lose). So your path to Kona is becoming relentless on every marginal saving you can get to and minimizing death in IM by small cuts. Your transition times need to be the fastest in your age group, you need to get on the best feet you can get on with a really fast opening 200m of the swim, take every aero gain possible, draft every bigger athlete on the run if you can avoid pushing your own wind on the run and of course gain every aero advantage and Crr advantage that ST gurus can give you. Basically your task is to gain 20x 30-60 seconds all over the race wherever someone else is giving it away....basically the wealthy barber approach to getting faster in racing....nothing magical, just shave time everywhere possible....and picking really hilly courses is to your advantage....just don't bonk coming back from Pemberton next time!

If you can put together slightly faster than your Whistler run with your Muskoka bike and then do the above mentioned savings all over the place during the race, then it feels like you are in the range. Basically every day of your life between now and next year, for everything you do inside and outside sport ask yourself, "How can I do this with less effort, or with the same effort go faster"....it could be something as simple as shopping for groceries, or filling in some admin form at work, or taking every shower faster or putting your shoes on for everything (dress shoes, bike shoes, running shoes, sandals) as fast as possible. Until just doing everything humanly possible faster all day every day becomes mechanical. Then you don't even have to think about this on race day. You just do it.

Overall, I don't think you have a ton of low hanging fruit to take off massive chunks of time. Unless you can take that 1:09 swim down to 59. Maybe that is possible, but it MAY be a massive lift.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Love it Ktri. Great story and commitment. Best of luck with the year ahead. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

P
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Overall, I don't think you have a ton of low hanging fruit to take off massive chunks of time.

Thanks for the death sentence, Dev! :-(

I knew what I lack is structured systematic triathlon specific training leading to all my IM races. The 2:49 open marathon I ran, I trained all winter long very hard with a good plan. But because of life circumstances, I've never followed a plan to prepare any of my IM. My usual weekly training is like 3 - 4 times swim (under an hour each time), some commute rides (25 km one way), some commute runs (10 km one way). And then a long ride (80 - 140 km) or a long run (30 km or so) every other weekend.

If I can squeeze out enough time to put aside for training, and if I can find a good coach to prescribe a specific IM plan, I do believe I can improve a lot on my bike and run a good IM marathon relative to my open marathon.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [tie3] [ In reply to ]
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i think you touch the important point, with a good plan, you ran a very solid marathon.

that kind of open marathon should enable you to run in the 3:10-20 range in a ironman. So i m not sure why dev dost see a low hanging fruit but i see a giant one right in front of you.

the challenge is every day life, if you can find a way to build a solid weekly routine and put the work in... you have a good 30min on the run to take off without even mentionning the bike. Of course, none of this is easy but 2:49 isnt pedestrien by any mean...that is solid fitness.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for giving me hope again, Coach Jonny!

Even though I came from mountain biking background before I learned how to swim in 2010, I've hardly done any systematic cycling training. So, I believe if I can structure my cycling training better, then I might come off the bike with a faster split and fresher legs to run.
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
i think you touch the important point, with a good plan, you ran a very solid marathon.

that kind of open marathon should enable you to run in the 3:10-20 range in a ironman. So i m not sure why dev dost see a low hanging fruit but i see a giant one right in front of you.

the challenge is every day life, if you can find a way to build a solid weekly routine and put the work in... you have a good 30min on the run to take off without even mentioning the bike. Of course, none of this is easy but 2:49 isnt pedestrien by any mean...that is solid fitness.

I see less low hanging fruit in him than someone who is 50 lbs "heavy". His body composition is optimized. Now that he has posted his bike training, I see low hanging fruit there to get better bike fitness to not necessarily bike faster but to dramatically shave time off the marathon. But he does not have the no brainer low hanging fruit of the overweight athlete! Not sure he would get to the 3:1x though. I've seen very few 2:4x age group smallish marathon runners who run 3:1x. But it might be because they have been training more like pure runners than swim-bike guys
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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Really great read. Thanks for taking the time to write it all out in detail and congratulations on the KONA spot!!!

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Couch to KQ in 7 years [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
jonnyo wrote:
i think you touch the important point, with a good plan, you ran a very solid marathon.

that kind of open marathon should enable you to run in the 3:10-20 range in a ironman. So i m not sure why dev dost see a low hanging fruit but i see a giant one right in front of you.

the challenge is every day life, if you can find a way to build a solid weekly routine and put the work in... you have a good 30min on the run to take off without even mentioning the bike. Of course, none of this is easy but 2:49 isnt pedestrien by any mean...that is solid fitness.


I see less low hanging fruit in him than someone who is 50 lbs "heavy". His body composition is optimized. Now that he has posted his bike training, I see low hanging fruit there to get better bike fitness to not necessarily bike faster but to dramatically shave time off the marathon. But he does not have the no brainer low hanging fruit of the overweight athlete! Not sure he would get to the 3:1x though. I've seen very few 2:4x age group smallish marathon runners who run 3:1x. But it might be because they have been training more like pure runners than swim-bike guys


Are you saying a 2:4x is not sufficient to run a 3:1x in an IM marathon? Or just that most of these types of athletes don't end up achieving this because they haven't put in enough time towards IM training? Surely some of the dudes running in the 3:1x for IM are in the 2:30s for open marathon but I doubt most...
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