Is Nevada an option? It's not just about gambling anymore.

3) At least one of us needs a good job. All in w/ bonus right now we are combined 270K gross, so would like to end up in an area where we can gross 150ish combined

Yikes, that is a big drop! Do you own your home in Livermore (any equity)? I wouldn't kick out Oregon (or any location) due to taxes, if you are going to take that kind of a monster hit on income. If you can find good jobs in a low tax area, fine, but that is always less important than getting good job(s).

Add: If Livermore is a problem (heat), then Phoenix is out!

Boise, ID is full of rednecks, skinheads, ignorant no good fools, and whores. Do not under any circumstance consider moving to Idaho!

We also have a standing order from the Governor to repel the Californian incursion, shoot on site orders have been issued.

Durango, CO

Yes. I initially called out Carson City, admittedly I know nothing of the town. All I know it is < 50 miles from lake tahoe and that would make my wife very happy. Housing looks to be affordable, but uncertain as to what industry is there, though as the state capital there has to be something going on in that regard.

They better hope for telecommuting jobs.

Of those you listed I would choose Salt Lake City. Growing economy, job opportunities, housing market still reasonable, good weather, quick access to the mountains, good weather. The airport is convenient and accessible and the commute won't be bad, good freeway and train system. Lots of active people, and you won't feel too out of place. There are a lot of Californians moving that direction.

Denver, Boulder, Ft. Collins, jobs yes. Commutes yes. And if you like the mountains, get used to spending a lot of time in your car. Colorado is overrun. I've told my wife, if we ever have to move back to the city Denver is out. We'll head west to Salt Lake.

Boise, ID is full of rednecks, skinheads, ignorant no good fools, and whores. Do not under any circumstance consider moving to Idaho!

We also have a standing order from the Governor to repel the Californian incursion, shoot on site orders have been issued.

Colorado is getting a bit crowded. I-70 up to the mountains can be challenging on most weekend. But, pretty good weather year-round and the housing is not quite as bad as CA (except Boulder and the mountain towns).

You could try asking your current company if they would be willing to let you work remote. Might be an easy transition to a new location and give you a little flexibility on income for a bit.

drn92

Just curious, why a western state if you family is in the east? Having close family is really nice when you start to have kids.

And with you income $800k is well within your price range. At about 3X income it would be the same if you moved to somewhere else with $400k houses while you make $150k.

I do not have $200K of non-retirement assets laying around to dump into a mid-century 3/2 that hasn't been remodeled.

Were you trying to discourage people from moving there? If so, you might want to edit your list.

we don't want to go back to Georgia, we left for a reason. we have enjoyed our time out west and want to stay out here, but outside of california. would rather pay for childcare and build our own life where we want, vs settling on our location because of cheap childcare. if grandparents want to be near their kid, they can sell their homes and move to us. As an aside, I find it interesting more don't take this mindset. Why do the people starting their lives together "typically" end up moving home, vs other way around?

you are partially correct on $800K, we could afford the monthly run rate currently assuming the appropriate down payment was made. I do not have $200K of non-retirement assets laying around to dump into a mid-century 3/2 that hasn't been remodeled.

SLC is nice. I think I could live there. The mormon thing and the air quality are the only things that would cause me considerable difficulty about SLC if I had to live in a big city. Utah is beautiful.

I think you may have answered your own question... "most" people don't make anywhere near $200K+ and child care is fucking expensive. There were probably a couple brief periods when we spent more on that than housing. The support can also be more than simple logistics/financial, depending on how close-knit the family is.

Also, just from that little snippet, it doesn't give the impression you're very tight w/ your fam... I have at least one set of friends who had the job wherewithal to afford living just about anywhere, but they chose to relocate closer to where their kids could grow up seeing their cousins more frequently (whereas being closer to the grandparents was considered more of a 'cost' in that transaction rather than an added benefit).

I read this board a lot and hardly ever post. But this topic is close to my heart, so here goes. I strongly suggest against SLC. I grew up in upstate NY, spent time in MT, SoCal, and ended up in SLC for the last 18 years. The local culture has no desire to protect or even slightly regulate their outdoor recreation activities/areas. They build and build like they will never run out of space or water.

The Mormon issue is as big as you want to make it. If you can ignore it, it won't bother you much. Individually, for the most part they are great people if not a little fake. Collectively its typical mob mentally at best and a straight up scary cult at worst. I don't have kids but I work in the public schools. I can tell you most of the older non-mormon people I know who raised kids in this area chalk that decision up as their single biggest regret in life.

What I personally have the biggest issue with is this place is basically a cesspool of pollution and nobody seems to give a shit what-so-ever. We have a serious air quality issue. People talk about the winter inversion but the real nasty secret is the air quality is usually worse in the summertime it just doesn't look as bad so no one talks about it. We have a sizable fresh water lake just south of us (Utah Lake) that is been closed since June for a toxic algae bloom and then just this week it found to levels of E coli that where off the charts. That lake drains into a river that feeds a lot of little ponds and waterways in the valley and eventually to the Salt Lake. That body of water allows a wonderful stench to drift into the valley and ton of dust from the areas that have dried up.

I suppose the housing is affordable compared to other areas but if your looking from something newer they are all built in big subdivisions about two feet from one another.

Other random shit, traffic is not as bad as other areas but it is definitely getting worse. Utah drivers are aggressive and people tend to be pretty quick to anger so that makes it seem worse? Summer is hot and long, this one has seemed especially hot. So I'm pretty much just bitching at this point...

I could go on, but what I'm trying to say is do your homework. On paper Utah looks great, the application doesn't really live up to that.

we don't want to go back to Georgia, we left for a reason. we have enjoyed our time out west and want to stay out here, but outside of california. would rather pay for childcare and build our own life where we want, vs settling on our location because of cheap childcare. if grandparents want to be near their kid, they can sell their homes and move to us. As an aside, I find it interesting more don't take this mindset. Why do the people starting their lives together "typically" end up moving home, vs other way around?

you are partially correct on $800K, we could afford the monthly run rate currently assuming the appropriate down payment was made. I do not have $200K of non-retirement assets laying around to dump into a mid-century 3/2 that hasn't been remodeled.

I live in Colorado Springs and it meets everything on your list except for maybe #3. I'm not familiar with the local pay rate for your fields. If you can find the right job this is a great place. I moved here from the Chicago area 37 years ago. Traffic is starting to be a problem, but nothing compared to what it was like in Chicago...even 37 years ago. We have a decent triathlon community despite no local races. Biking is good, both road and MTB. Running is awesome and there are a good number of world class trail runners. Economy is stable, education is good. Plenty of access to the mountains and skiing without going through the crowded Denver area.

Fort Collins is great as well. It's like what Colorado Springs was about 40 years ago.

I live south of Denver and Denver has become a traffic nightmare. I agree with the other poster that something should have been done 20 years ago. I went to the mountains this past weekend and we left around noon to come back and traffic, while moving slowly, was pretty much bumper to bumper from the tunnel to the front range. Denver was great 20-30 years ago and now is just sprawl and too many people have moved here. When I retire, I'm moving to the other side of the mountains, maybe Durango, Steamboat or western slope.

If skiing along the I70 corridor isn't important, then I would suggest Fort Collins. Springs in nice by the Broadmoor and a few other places.

I live south of Denver and Denver has become a traffic nightmare. I agree with the other poster that something should have been done 20 years ago. I went to the mountains this past weekend and we left around noon to come back and traffic, while moving slowly, was pretty much bumper to bumper from the tunnel to the front range. Denver was great 20-30 years ago and now is just sprawl and too many people have moved here. When I retire, I'm moving to the other side of the mountains, maybe Durango, Steamboat or western slope.

If skiing along the I70 corridor isn't important, then I would suggest Fort Collins. Springs in nice by the Broadmoor and a few other places.

This is excellent news.. we are rednecks from Jawja. and attended public school there, a state ranked in the bottom 3-4, so we are also ignorant. Sounds like a winner.

We came back thru Alamosa and Pueblo to avoid the traffic as much as possible. That seems like a decent area.

I live in Colorado Springs and it meets everything on your list except for maybe #3. I'm not familiar with the local pay rate for your fields.

Hopefully you didn't stop! Lot's of nicer areas other than Alamosa and Pueblo in Colorado. Pueblo has a super high homicide rate - lots of gang activity. Alamosa, is a farming/tourist stop in the middle of nowhere but they do have a good motocross track!

A traffic nightmare compared to Denver a few years ago, or a traffic nightmare compared to SoCal? :)

It's all relative.

A traffic nightmare compared to Denver a few years ago, or a traffic nightmare compared to SoCal? :)

It's all relative.

Another vote for Spokane making the list I suppose. It's come a long way in the past 20 years or so and hits on most of your criteria.

Now that we have that out of the way if you really want to look closer at this shit hole which aarondb4 is deterring you from...start off in Moscow, ID (about 6 hours north) and work your way down from there. We in N. Idaho have standing orders against Californians as well but we know they are still coming..might as well just get you all down there anyhow..it's practically CA already ;).

Those rednecks are always looking south...they will never see you coming!

Questions about Denver......

I agree that the traffic and the housing costs have made the suburban commuter lifestyle unmanageable in Denver.

But are there other possibilities....
1) How about a house or condo in centralized area where car commuting could be kept to less than 10 miles/day.
2) What about that RTD system?

Boise, ID is full of rednecks, skinheads, ignorant no good fools, and whores. Do not under any circumstance consider moving to Idaho!

We also have a standing order from the Governor to repel the Californian incursion, shoot on site orders have been issued.

This - We will repel all liberal Californians who attempt to invade our way of life. Besides...there's no handouts here. You'll hate it!

For those of you in and around the Front Range who are complaining that something should have been done decades ago, what is that something? Expand I-70 to 4 lanes in each direction all the way to Vail? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just curious. The problem seems to be that it's a fun place to live so the population is growing quickly. I don't know you fix that problem (border wall?) now or 20 years ago.