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THANKS FOR ALL RESPONSES!!! Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend?
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Please be gentle. My ego took a big hit yesterday, but I'm always looking to get better in the 4th discipline.


Projected temps: 90's
Water temp: 73 yet everyone said it felt colder..but still okay. I thought mid to high 60's.
Air temp at start 82 degrees.

I arrived at race at 5am, start time 8:20. Arrived early to help out in VIP tent

Two hours before a sports bottle with only one scoop of Inifite Go Far. Cliff bar..another cliff bar 90 minutes before race (I was hungry)

One hour sports bottle again with two scoops and gel. Also took Sports Legs which is typical for my mountain bike race, never tried for triathlon (worked in practice). This part is normally one scoop but did two to prep for heat.

Start: water, gel and salt tab

Bike: water with a salt-tab at turn-around (30 mins approx). Thus about an hour since last intake of last nutrition. No real issues on bike. Felt good.

Entering T2: Gel

Run was the worst I've ever had. Calf muscles would not loosen up at all, which I have had an issue with in the last three 10k races I've done as practice. Run was everything to get to finish. I even walked...I NEVER walk during 10k. Heat was unbearable. Felt lathargic the whole run. Nutrition: water cup first mile, gatorade next three miles, pepsi the last two miles (I needed sugar to finish). One salt tab at 3.5 mile mark.

What could I have done better to combat the heat and do better on run? My run pace was 11:00. Historically I run an 8:15 pace during an OLY. I won my AG in the last OLY did in August 2016, so I had a lot of confidence. Not so much now.

No stomach issues during race other than somebody handed me mountain dew instead of pepsi. I HATE mountain dew. Blah.

On a side note, I had my first flat tire during a triathlon. I've practiced changing. Per my video, from the moment you hear the tire pop to the moment i get back on the road, it took 4:10 to change. I'm pretty happy with that, other than almost crashing (front tire blew, wheel control went AWOL). Watching me change on the video there are a couple of things I could do to speed up another 30s. Still finished with a 21.5 MPH average and hit all power targets.

THANKS EVERYONE...IT REALLY HELPED...

1. I SHOULD HAVE PAID MORE ATTENTION TO MY BREAKFAST WHEN VOLUNTEERING 3 HOURS BEFORE RACE.
2. BETTER HEAT ADAPTION, WHICH IS TOUGH IN MICHIGAN WHEN THE SPRING WAS SO COOL
3. MORE RECOVERY TIME
4. REEVALUATE BIKE PACING...ALTHOUGH I REDUCED IT FOR THE HEAT, IT WASN'T ENOUGH.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
Last edited by: Economist: Jun 13, 17 6:33
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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You overbiked.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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You weren't ready for the heat. It's been pretty cool this spring. You could have bundled up in training to create some heat or backed off on the bike/run and keep yourself wet to help with cooling. Lots of people had a rough day yesterday.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly. He "hit his power numbers" on the bike, and it was hotter than he was used to.

Overbiked....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Why are you taking salt tabs for an Oly? Do you have known issues? This seems pointless, although it probably had nothing to do with your issues.

***
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds like you might have overheated on the run.

To avoid overheating my priorities would be:
1) Pay attention to how you feel.
2) Cool off- once you start to overheat. (In humid conditions- it is very hard to cool off).
If you start to get "too hot".... I would slow down, and get water ON me and (perhaps in me).
3) Try not to get dehydrated.
A) Start the race hydrated
B) Drink a decent amount of water, and perhaps, electrolytes on the bike. (Any sports drink has electrolytes).


Simple:
Stay cool + Don't get dehydrated.

It sounds like you are putting a lot of thought into what you eat and drink during the race, and during training.

Most Olympic Distance athletes would be faster if they spent less time thinking about what they should eat, and more time on training and weight loss.

Seriously- I drink one bottle of sports drink on the bike (mostly for the electorates) + some water.
That's all the thought I put into "fueling".
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [ In reply to ]
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Any chance you saw Brownlee crater and DNF a week ago? Heat really wrecks some folks, pros included. Don't get too down on yourself.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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Overheating is about:
1) Pacing
2) Cooling
3) Adaptation/ Experience racing in the heat
4) Hydration
5) Electrolytes

Name brand "sports nutrition" is not very high on this list.
Except that it makes one fatter and poorer (if you use it a lot).
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Hate you say it, but you showed up early and volunteered. I volunteer a lot and it takes a lot more out of you than you think it does.

Guessing the heat didn't help either.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Did you have a few Decent breakfast?
Sounds like you did not
Feeling hungry prior to race is not good
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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There were so many houses that had peeps in the front yard with hoses and sprinklers. I took advantage of every single one. I took to cups of water at each aid station and dumped over me.

Some of you are right, it's been a cool spring.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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All my power numbers were dialed down for the anticipated heat. I also got a nice 4:10 break in the bike to change a tire. But could really be a main factor since I've only had one mountain bike race this season (out of 4) where the temps were over 65 degrees.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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To be honest, looks like a lot of fluids pre-race to me.. Overhydrating could result in what you experienced, even if it was sportsdrink and electrolytes.
Other than that, the breakfast theory sounds pretty legit. Being hungry and having to grab some bars is not a good sign.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
It sounds like you might have overheated on the run.

To avoid overheating my priorities would be:
1) Pay attention to how you feel.
2) Cool off- once you start to overheat. (In humid conditions- it is very hard to cool off).
If you start to get "too hot".... I would slow down, and get water ON me and (perhaps in me).
3) Try not to get dehydrated.
A) Start the race hydrated
B) Drink a decent amount of water, and perhaps, electrolytes on the bike. (Any sports drink has electrolytes).


Simple:
Stay cool + Don't get dehydrated.

It sounds like you are putting a lot of thought into what you eat and drink during the race, and during training.

Most Olympic Distance athletes would be faster if they spent less time thinking about what they should eat, and more time on training and weight loss.

Seriously- I drink one bottle of sports drink on the bike (mostly for the electorates) + some water.
That's all the thought I put into "fueling".

I think it sounds like I put too much into nutrition, I just tried to list what I took for yesterday to get feedback. I add the electrolytes prior to start and then water on the course. Two gels. one on bike one on run. One salt tab at end of bike. I added second tab on run because I was hoping it would help. The majority of my thought into nutrition is to make sure I don't over do things.

Most of the run was I dizzy and at mile 5ish, I actually ran into a mailbox. Of course right in front of a crowd too.

Somebody made a comment about my breakfast which is a very good point. Two cliff bars.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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I'd tend to agree with the others and say you over-biked. Any chance you have heart rate data?
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Economist wrote:
Most of the run was I dizzy and at mile 5ish, I actually ran into a mailbox. Of course right in front of a crowd too.


Sorry, but I had to LOL at that one.

Ran a Sprint this weekend. Didn't hit any mailboxes, but I could totally imagine doing it myself had I done an Oly-length event, instead.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Jun 12, 17 14:21
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Are you (as three possibilities that I have experienced and that I haven't seen here yet):
1) under-trained (and I'm just saying, it is kind of early in the season)
or
2) over-tired
or
3) under-prepared for heat?

Your race numbers are like my race numbers, and I often suffer on the run. In general, it's due to the heat and my low training hours in general and low run mileage in particular (I'm not implying yours is low, this is just my experience).

September is great for me: a little cooler, and I round into shape by then...

Last year, I addressed both low mileage/load and heat strategies and improved performance significantly in about six weeks, even as the summer got hotter.

ETA: I just remembered the mailbox issue. See my sig: happens to the best of them.

Andrew Moss

(By the way, I race this Saturday, and if I dial back the bike, I should have a good run. I'm just not in race shape yet and it will be hot. But I guarantee I'll overcook it and blow up on the run. [I'm a scorpion, that's what I do, I just can't help going as fast as I can on the bike.] If I can remember, I'll share the misery with you in a few days.)

__________
"At the end he was staggering into parked cars and accusing his support-van driver of trying to poison him." A description of John Dunbar in the 1st Hawaii Iron Man
Last edited by: apmoss: Jun 12, 17 12:57
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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By my count:

Pre-race:

420 cals = 3 scoops of 'go far' (split between two bottles)
500 cals = 2 cliff bars
100 cals = 1 gel
--------------------
1020 cals

Start:
100 cals = 1 gel

T1:

none

T2:
100 cals = 1 Gel

Total calories 1220.

That's a lot "pre-race"---At least it would be for me. Every time I consume 2 clif bars in less than an hour I end up just like you describe. Eg, my long ride/brick on Saturday. Didn't have time for lunch, so I grabbed two clif bars on my way out the door. Ate one right away, and the second about 45 minutes later. Drank two bottles of water during 2.5 hrs (IF=0.8). Water was sloshing in my belly during my 3 mile brick-run. Temp=95F (dew point 70F).

Also seems like a lot of calories in total. Especially for the intensity of an Oly. I don't like gels and solids when going that hard--they seem to just sit in my stomach. I know I would end up with a sloshing/bloated belly on the run from that plan---doubly true when in heat I'm not acclimated to. I would cut your pre-race in half.

In reality, I'd eat a decent dinner with a reasonable amount of carbs. Then I'd sleep in and just drink sports drink pre-race--and skip sold food all together. I'd also drink sports drink on the bike instead of gels+water...to spread the calories out more and dilute them so you don't get one blob of gu all at once.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Overbiked and too high a concentration of calories. I would also never do Cliff bars as the solids need water to process. Dilute your calories much more in heat and keep electrolytes in check. I'd also ask what you ate the night/day before. An OLY race should not take much for extra nutrition, so go in hungry and lean.....
Last edited by: ggeiger: Jun 12, 17 15:27
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Just don't think 3 cliff bars is a good breakfast.
Would never have done me and I am small and did not do volunteer stuff before racing
Honestly think you should look at more solid breakfast before you get into the more complicated stuff
Here is what I would have:
Bagel with ham, small cartoon of milk, pear
Then bannana, sport drink, power bar or whatever during race check in.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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I would have had a plain bagel and a cup of coffee at around 6:00 AM, 20 ounces of water during the bike, and a few cups of whatever they were serving on the run.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I'd tend to agree with the others and say you over-biked. Any chance you have heart rate data?

Okay so I did go and look at HR data. The bike is below my average, but again I dialed it down in anticipation of heat and I did have the small break to change flat. But I've taken some notes to reconfigure my pace when temps get this high.

Run HR is more interesting.

OLY 10k run: 145 BPM average at an average pace of 10:58 (ugh) - 90 degrees temps
10k race the prior weekend: 148BMP average at an average pace of 8:30 - 70's temp.
10k race two weeks prior: 152BPM average at an average pace of 8:30 - mid 70's temp

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [sidelined] [ In reply to ]
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sidelined wrote:
Just don't think 3 cliff bars is a good breakfast.
Would never have done me and I am small and did not do volunteer stuff before racing
Honestly think you should look at more solid breakfast before you get into the more complicated stuff
Here is what I would have:
Bagel with ham, small cartoon of milk, pear
Then bannana, sport drink, power bar or whatever during race check in.

I have cliff bars for breakfast every day during the week so I think I was on cruise control and didn't reconsider. If I'm going to volunteer at the beginning, I need to plan for the breakfast better.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [apmoss] [ In reply to ]
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apmoss wrote:
Are you (as three possibilities that I have experienced and that I haven't seen here yet):
1) under-trained (and I'm just saying, it is kind of early in the season)
or
2) over-tired
or
3) under-prepared for heat?

Your race numbers are like my race numbers, and I often suffer on the run. In general, it's due to the heat and my low training hours in general and low run mileage in particular (I'm not implying yours is low, this is just my experience).

September is great for me: a little cooler, and I round into shape by then...

Last year, I addressed both low mileage/load and heat strategies and improved performance significantly in about six weeks, even as the summer got hotter.

ETA: I just remembered the mailbox issue. See my sig: happens to the best of them.

Andrew Moss

(By the way, I race this Saturday, and if I dial back the bike, I should have a good run. I'm just not in race shape yet and it will be hot. But I guarantee I'll overcook it and blow up on the run. [I'm a scorpion, that's what I do, I just can't help going as fast as I can on the bike.] If I can remember, I'll share the misery with you in a few days.)

My training numbers are elevated compared to the last seven years I've done this race. I've even done more bricks, which I rarely do this early in the season. Much like you, come late Summer and I'm faster (August I even won my AG in an OLY with multiple podiums during a sprints). I track my TSS, TSB, etc. and my TSB was higher than any other OLY I've done.

I may need more recovery and certainly more preparation for the heat.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Do you train in the mornings?

I find doing my usual breakfast plus a little bit extra (ie. Extra egg and maybe some honey on my apple) to make sure i dont hit empty is enough to keep me going, but not weigh me down.

Also heat adaption can be crucial.

Strava
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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Just looked at results. Still took 20th in AG despite being damn near dead last in run. Top 10 in swim and bike and top 3 in transition times. If I had the same time as last year, I would have taken third so EVERYBODY was a slower this year (no course changes)....although the winner did do a 20 minute swim. That's four minutes faster than the 2nd place. wow.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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gmh39 wrote:
Do you train in the mornings?

I find doing my usual breakfast plus a little bit extra (ie. Extra egg and maybe some honey on my apple) to make sure i dont hit empty is enough to keep me going, but not weigh me down.

Also heat adaption can be crucial.

I swim in mornings and bike/run in late afternoon. I always try to run at peak heat times to help with adaption but this Spring has been very cool.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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ggeiger wrote:
Overbiked and too high a concentration of calories. I would also never do Cliff bars as the solids need water to process. Dilute your calories much more in heat and keep electrolytes in check. I'd also ask what you ate the night/day before. An OLY race should not take much for extra nutrition, so go in hungry and lean.....

Agree with this.

My Oly nutrition is like this:
Wakeup and each 1 package of oatmeal
Take a banana with me and eat on the way (plus coffee)
1 gel about 30 mins before race starts
1 gel in T1
Water on bike
1 gel in T2

I've tested with more calories and it doesn't end well trying to go full gas.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
Seriously- I drink one bottle of sports drink on the bike (mostly for the electorates)
"If you focus on electorates, you can lose the popular vote yet still win your AG"
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Jonathan22] [ In reply to ]
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Seriously.......

Why are we still talking about eating?

That's a 140.6 topic.

And even then it is over discussed.
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: Jun 12, 17 21:03
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Jonathan22] [ In reply to ]
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Jonathan22 wrote:
Agree with this.

My Oly nutrition is like this:
Wakeup and each 1 package of oatmeal
Take a banana with me and eat on the way (plus coffee)
1 gel about 30 mins before race starts
1 gel in T1
Water on bike
1 gel in T2

I've tested with more calories and it doesn't end well trying to go full gas.

Last year I did an Oly where my nutrition plan was as follows:
1 gel 20 min before the race
Infinit + 1 Gel on bike
1 gel in T2

Did the pre-race gel, and the start got delayed by about 30 minutes so I elected to take a gel in T1
On the bike, the gel slipped out of my hands, so missed that one.
In T2 I grabbed the empty gel wrapper from T1 instead of a fresh one, so missed that one too.
Took a little water on the run, but mostly just doused myself.
Had my best run of the year.

That experience caused me to rethink my nutrition. Now my Oly plan is a pre-race gel, liquid electrolyte/calories on the bike, and that's it. My stomach basically shuts down on the run.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
You overbiked.

/thread

----------------------------------------------------------------
Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne
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Re: THANKS FOR ALL RESPONSES!!! Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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you under-breakfasted..
;-)
clif bars aren't a breakfast especially if you have been up for 3 hours already before starting the race..
though if those are your usual breakfast it will probably be hard on your stomach to switch to real food just on race days.
The gut is trainable, start by fixing your daily nutrition.

my nutrition for an Oly is the Coke and water mix in the BTA water bottle on the bike. That's it, never needed anything more.

but - Breakfast is typically cereal with fullfat milk and/or yogurt, bagel with jam and cheese or PB and honey, coffee.
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Re: THANKS FOR ALL RESPONSES!!! Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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I said I'd reply with some n=1 data, so...

Sprint race this weekend, way overtrained for the swim, undertrained for bike, about average (for me) for the run.
My PR for a run in the past few years for a sprint is about an 8:20 pace. I am just a mid-packer, 45 years old, heavy (180 lbs.), and pretty slow on the run as far back as I can remember.

Temps: about 82, very mild for the week/month.
I have had NO bricks or training in the heat.
I run about 18 mi/wk.
I threw 2 handsful of ice in my suit to start the run.

Swim: was WAY overtrained for the swim and went out in a very conservative RPE and a had a very fast time for me (1st out of T1).
Bike: biked to a moderate RPE, but my time was super-fast (about 22mph) (for me) for my training.
Run: splits: 8:20 (felt like a jog), 8:40 (felt like a tri), 9:00 (felt like a death-march). I didn't run into anything, but I was in the red enough to not be able to think about splits/pace/laps, etc.

My HR was not as high on the run as it is in training for a 5k time trial, but my RPE on the third mile was un-chart-ably high. Just chaos and misery. No cramps, no thirst.

My takeaway is: I am just undertrained for the bike/run, especially the run, and my heat training still needs some work.

Sounds like you and I train and race different, even though it sounds like my run in any race is usually like the one your reported as an outlier. So, I think my experience isn't helpful/analogous, but I thought I'd follow up as promised.

Have a good season,
Andrew Moss

__________
"At the end he was staggering into parked cars and accusing his support-van driver of trying to poison him." A description of John Dunbar in the 1st Hawaii Iron Man
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with this, sounds to me like dehydration was a problem. If all the bottles were high in calories, they count as snacks, not hydration. Sounds like all the liquid consumed was used to digest all the late calories, instead of to hydrate.
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Re: Could I get constructive criticism on my OLY nutrition from past weekend? [Economist] [ In reply to ]
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You overswam & overbiked, likely due to the severe 90F heat that you mentioned. If you don't factor that in, expect to have either a hard day or a total meltdown on the run.

Nutrition is highly unlikely to be your limiter here, as it does sound you like got some fluids on the course. I'd say there's about a zero % chance that a lack of calories contributed to you walking on the run (vs a near 100% chance it was the combo of the severe heat + not pulling back your earlier pacing to account for it)
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