very cool. my first 'real' tri bike was an original KM40, and i still miss that bike dearly.

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

disc brakes

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Glad to hear it. I thought the brand was dead.

This. Plus an on-board oven to make fresh gluten-free kale/quinoa power bars.

---

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

If it doesn't have disc brakes, it will be interesting with the market shifting. Kestrel is a lot smaller company so maybe they just use stay with rim brakes.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I think you are correct about disc brakes.

A comment on a recent post:
"Disc brake road is the future. Get on board already. Be a leader, not a follower"

Kestrel response:
"Thank you. We think you'll enjoy what we have coming soon"

So no idea if this will be a feature of the new bike, however it seems disc brakes are on the radar.

---

Regards,
J. Smith

I just paused the video on the new bike. It's rim brakes.
https://www.facebook.com/...os/1341286315926157/

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

They're making a new one already?

---

--Chris

Good call, I just watched the video and paused through. Looks like the front brake could be integrated into the fork and the frame is an interesting shape in comparison to the 4000 or the Talon.

---

Regards,
J. Smith

Someone posted a full side shot picture on the Kestrel Facebook site a month ago. It disappeared very quickly but it was kinda sad. Nothing all that exciting, very much like the Trek but skinnier in places. So standard diamond frame, hidden rim brakes, thin tubes. I cannot remember quite how integrated the front end is but I don't think it was anything out of the ordinary.

Sad because many years ago the airfoil KM40 was the dogs dangly bits, and now they're playing catch up..

I paused the video at 0:07 with only the front wheel and the rider's arm showing. There is no rotor on the front wheel. I don't see this as a bad thing.

Looking forward to seeing what Kestrel has come up with.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

I know knowing about the new Kestrel bike, but I'm excited about this. I've speculated that skinny tubes are the future of triathlon bikes for a long time.

Are there any pics out there anywhere yet?

---

--Chris

tribike design, for all the recent developments, is still way more conservative than it was 20 years ago, and possibly uglier. the km40 airfoil was a stunningly beautiful bike.

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

And the original km40 was gorgeous too.

I've generally thought kestrels always looked good, from the original 4000 onwards. The 200sc was my dream bike back when I raced bikes, but I got a trek OCLV instead because the top tube was a little longer (and it looked good too)

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

[/reply]

Still ride my 200SC & still loving it! I would love to see a new an competitive Kestrel tribike!

and ahead of its time: the original km40 had aero tubes, a faired rear wheel, internal cables, and steep geometry.

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

but why?

Less surface area to move through the wind. But getting the shapes and strength right is the tricky part.

hmmm, not sure I buy that, but I'm interested in hearing your case.

The rear end of this new Kestrel looks like an old Talon. Are they going to shoot for a sub $2k fully built etap build? We all know that's not the case, but that's the only way I see this bike squeezing into the market.

I've written this elsewhere, but I'd like to see a sub $3k bike with the P5x/enve style adjustable front end. That'd be a winner.

---

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

For what it's worth, Cannondale tried your theory with the last Slice and Slice RS "narrow is aero" and they didn't come up with anything better than a P5 or Speed Concept. In the case of the Slice, it was actually markedly slower. If you read the white paper on the Serios, you'll see that narrow seat stays actually stalled rather dramatically. You could argue that friction drag would be lower but friction drag of the frame is really quite miniscule.

My first kestrel was a 4000 in 1991. Got a replacement 200SC in 1991 due to a Crack. In 2000 got another replacement due to a small Crack. I rode that one as my primary till 2005, so 15 years on the original spend. Then I retired it to my trainer in 2005. It is my full time trainer bike and for 12 years my primary bike Oct to April!!! So 28 full or partial years and going strong on the original spend!!!

You can pop along to their Facebook page to see an outline of the frame. To be honest, it looks fine. Nothing revolutionary but all very nice and tidy and no doubt easy to deal with. Aero results and costs are the determinants here, assuming you don't want to get on the disk brake bandwagon.

SteveMc

https://www.facebook.com/kestrelbicycles/photos/a.126142109759.105858.58488719759/10155009461199760/?type=3


That looks fine, but it doesn't look like it will take Kestrel back to their status in the triathlon world.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Confirmed the pic is the 5000. They have now posted a flyer advertising a ride / demo session in California. GB is on the front riding this frame.

---

Regards,
J. Smith

Nice...

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Looks like a definite upgrade to the lineup
nonetheless...meh

---

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Planet X did it first.....

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...net_X_EXO3_P6040388/

---

Alex Arman

Strava

Wow, that is pretty exact.

---

--Chris

Unless this bike is radically different from the pic it's DOA and won't help Kestrel be anything more than the afterthought of an afterthought in the tri bike world

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Good call

---

Regards,
J. Smith

This is what was posted about the 2015 Cannondale Slice in reference to aerodynamic drag:

Yup. The Speed Concept and P5 would be about 5waats faster out to 10 degrees. I consider that "markedly slower".

I feel like I've seen that fork before...

Not a bad looking bike but also nothing new. Hopefully they compete on price.

Looks like my Cannondale and my Felt went behind the middle school got pregnant and had this Kestrel.

The new slice was no better than the old one? What was the point then.

I'm on a phone so not a big screw to see that chart but it looks like the Cannondale is faster up to about 8-9 degrees. According to Flo, the majority of riders are <10 degrees of yaw so maybe the Cannondale is real world good? Or I'm reading the chart wrong. Both are solid possibilities.

http://www.flocycling.com/aero.php

---

--Chris

See also Jamis on Bikerumor:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/05/01/soc17-prototype-jamis-tttriathlon-bike-integrates-bar-stem-brakes/

Decent but faster bikes exist. The Shiv is a pretty well-known relative to other bikes (E.g. SC/P5) but the big unknown here is how the bikes were tested (e.g. did they standardize the basebar, cranks, etc. Given their notation I'm going to say "no")

Edit: oh hell I didn't see the new slice was on there twice. Huge bomb. Not real world good.

Man the main triangle looks nearly identical.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/tt-and-triathlon-bikes/exo3
I dont think kestrel made their own bike...sad to know...

Holy shit. I think Kestrel is pulling a fast one.

Not 100% sure, but it looks very suspect:




vs.

P4, Diamondback Andian, and Venge Vias are good examples of the narrow-is-aero school of thought and in the 0-5 degree yaw range they pretty much rule, even though the P4 is at least 6 or 7 years old. It is probably a lot harder to come up with an airfoil shape that I has a 20% lower Cd, but you can design a 20% narrower bike.

Different bikes. I kbow makers but need to keep tight lipped as respect to other brands.

I tried to sell my Legend design to kestrel but they passed n favor of what seems this bike.

So you're saying that this might look like the Planet-X but isn't. Good to know for price comparison as it really is very very similar looking.

With the reports coming in on how difficult the Andean is to build, how bland the Super Slice is, the more annoying it is that you didn't get the Legend off the ground. Lacking tubes would have made so much sense for Kestrel.

SteveMc

Looks like an open-mould frame with Kestrel livery.

---

29 years and counting

If you scroll 3/5ths the way down things start to make sense: https://cyclingtips.com/...-coverage-day-three/

^^ this.

I've been talking with my fitter who gave a refreshing perspective since I'm a Kestrel fan and have been in a bit of a honeymoon phase over a new Kestrel tri bike.

The pic that accompanied this quote from the TCS was a bike from a company called "Edge Bikes" and it was the exact same frame mould:

"There are many brands at the Taipei Cycle Show that have hardly seen the light of day. Are Edge bikes any good? This TT/Tri machine certainly looks the business, but there’s no way to know just by casually observing. That said, this identical frame with a more recognizable name on the down tube would likely elicit a much different response."

He also posted the specs in which a 60cm version exists, it's just that nobody stocks it however Kestrel could (has not confirmed what sizes they would sell) which would give them an edge on the "tall rider" market for this style of bike. I've always struggled with options due to my height.

My question came back to the QC of it all. I refused Chinese carbon years ago, mostly from advice on here, not because it's all crap but because most of it goes through an unverified quality control check and returns and exchanges are a nightmare. With Kestrel using the model, QC and customer service likely improves 10 fold making this a much more enticing purchase.

---

Regards,
J. Smith

That looks like a pretty cool show to attend.

---

--Chris

http://www.trisports.com/...e-sram-red-etap.html

Delivering insane speed with a boost of compliance and control, the Kestrel 5000 SL SRAM Red eTap Triathlon Bike will ignite your performance. The 5000 SL starts with 800K high modulus carbon fiber and is strategically molded to possess geometry-specific tube shapes, a fortified bottom bracket, tapered top tube and aerodynamically contoured stays, seat and down tubes. The end result is an incredibly aerodynamic triathlon bike that offers unmatched torsional rigidity, efficient power transfer, confident handling and superb ride quality. A2 wind tunnel designed, an integrated fairing shrouds the front brake for a cleaner leading edge while the rear chainstay brake fairing sheds turbulent air under the bottom bracket shell.

Piloting the superbike reaches a new level with the full treatment of SRAM Red eTap and Oval Concepts controls. As elegant as it is simple to use, the 11-speed SRAM Red eTap drivetrain is completely wireless and delivers precise, reliable, effortless shifting. To enhance comfort during long events, an integrated seatpost clamp and saddle rail clamp work in unison to provide 40mm of position adjustment fore and aft. The Oval Concepts 980 carbon clincher wheels are stiff, lightweight and aerodynamic, making them the perfect accompaniment for your time machine. From the lava fields in Kona to the backcountry training rides in your hometown, the laser-focused Kestrel 5000 SL SRAM Red eTap Triathlon Bike delivers powerful results.

Does anyone else think this bike looks like an open mold?

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

It is. There's at least 4 bikes now with the same mold, 2 others in this thread alone.

PS The Planet X version with Etap is $2k cheaper.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/...ap-edition-selcof-56

---

--Chris

Interesting that they claim A2 tunnel designed unless they are just talking about the fairing on the front brake.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Or maybe whoever designed the open mold tested it there and all 4 of them can claim that.

---

--Chris

Is it possible that Kestrel designed/developed this frame, and then the Asian factories ripped them off? I'm not asking you specifically Bryan, but someone in-the-know might have some insight.

Planet X has had their version on their website for a few months now, so it seems that if anything it was Kestrel that did the ripping off.

---

--Chris

Unlikely.

I haven't seen this frame on aliexpress, so it's not available (yet) for the average joe to pick up. The possibilities are;

1. Kestrel did not design the bike. A carbon frame producer is making the frame and licensing it out to anyone who is willing to pay. In this case, Kestrel is using misleading A2 wind tunnel claims to imply that they developed the bike.

-or-

2. Kestrel did design the bike. The A2 claims are accurate. However, they negotiated with the frame producer to share costs of production with the understanding that the manufacturer would have the right to license the frame to other companies.


...The aero/development claims are nothing new. When Planet X first released the Exocet 2, they made some bold claims about the frame being 'their' design, but the frame had already been on aliexpress and available to the general public to buy for some time. Now with the exocet 3, Kestrel is making the claim.

The guys at Flo cycling once described the process of #2 when first getting into business. IIRC, they opted to not share the costs and maintain all rights to their wheel designs and distribution.

Wonder why they are not selling a frameset?

It's practically identical to the Exo3, or is. Similar to the FM086/87 but definitely is not the same, the down tube gives it away.

Where Planet X's "XL" is the 57, Kestrel is actually putting out the 60cm - as a tall athlete I appreciate that, it's good to see another large bike on the market. If you ride a 54 the world is your oyster, but at my height it can be slim picking.

I'm out on this bike for 2017, LBS talked me down, plus I don't want a bike I want a frame. Hopefully some reviews will come through later in the year.

Thoughts on GB riding this to a 5th fastest split of the day at Alcatraz? Seemed to have performed well.

---

Regards,
J. Smith

You are correct. A lot of factories will give you the option to share your technology/save on mold cost, OR pay more but keep your technology private. We have always opted for the paying more option.

---

Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Open Mold framesets look much better without any lettering on them. Be it Kestrel or Planet X.

So if Kestrel designed this bike, (or PX), would it still be appropriate to call it "open mold"?

Depends on who actually designed this? Do we or will we ever know.

Some people will know and can't confirm or deny out of respect for competitors.

I was reading this thread again and realized that the Kestrel Talon is actually the best selling bike from a certain large retailer. So, Kestrel is doing ok probably. They make what is essentially the cheapest carbon tri bike and sell them like hotcakes.

Hey Sweeney. I saw that you got your kestrel from Boca. How do you line your 4000?. I'm new to the sport and was talking to the owner of Boca and he suggested the new 5000sl but I was also considering the shiv expert. You comments would be greatly appreciated

Yes, it would.

Open mold isn't defined by who created with, but rather how it is made available to other companies to use it. ...I guess you could say that Kestrel designed this open mold frame (if that is the case).

I got my 4000 after having tested the Shiv. I thought the geometry on the Shiv was to up-right for me. The 4000 was just right, letting me get into a nice long and low position. Last year I got a Felt IA. The 4000 is now my travel bike because it's so easy to break down and set up. And I've kept using it for American Zoffingen because it's pounds lighter.

None of us know anything about the 5000 yet, but you can't go wrong dealing with Raul and his people at Boca Hawaii!

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Those two bikes have nearly identical stack/reach measurements.

No they don't

Kestrel;
55536418
Shiv;
M5404056360814int7580L565425

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Can you translate that pls?

---

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Kestrel 4000, size 55, stack 536, reach 418

Shiv

size M, stack 540, reach 405
size L, 565, 425

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Aren't we talking about Kestrels new bike, the 5000? Stack of 543 and Reach of 405 in M(55). The geometry chart is available in the link the OP shared, or at http://www.kestrelbicycles.com/...-shimano-ultegra-di2

I was answering a question about my K4000, when someone else wrote ''aren't those two bikes virtually the same''

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Ah, I see. My mistake.