Ai_1 wrote:
lightheir wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
It's not too complicated for you.
Keep it ALL EASY effort. Like literally being able to hold a short conversation easy.
And run 2-3 miles per day - shoot for more days of running rather than more volume per run.
Since you haven't run hard for quite awhile, err on the safe side and take a good 3-4 weeks to establish run volume of at least 25mpw. Ideally, you'd get to 30+mpw before starting to run faster. The 10% rule should work fine if in doubt, but at these low volumes, you can ramp up faster (by adding more days of running before miles per run) if you're feeling fine.
And whatever you do, do NOT go all-out on any of your runs. With your big cardio engine from swimming, you'll strain something in your legs really fast and sideline yourself for 4-8 weeks right off the bat.
I'd keep swimming for your 'real' workouts for now. You'll be frustrated with how wussy the run workouts are compared to your swim hammerfests, and it's really important for you to not apply your swim hammerfest mentality to running at this early point where your muscles and tendons will just get torn and strained.
That's what I need to hear. My natural tendency is to go hard, because that's fun, and I ignore warning signs (in the pool that's a sign that you are getting started). Then I get injured and can barely walk for 2 weeks...
I've tried re-starting a couple of times since I stopped running in '08. but each time it's ended like that...
I wouldn't call 3-4 weeks to get to 25mpw+ erring on the safe side!
I've occasionally taken several weeks off running out of season and just cycled. When I get back to running say after 8 weeks, my initial week might be something like this:
Week 1: Two 3-4km runs (~7km/4.5miles)
Week 2: Two 4km and 5km (13km/8miles & 86% weekly distance increase)
Week 3: Two 5km and 6km (16km/10miles & 23% weekly distance increase)
Week 4: 5km, 6km and 8km (19km/12miles & 19% weekly distance increase)
After that , I'll raise the distances roughly 10-15% per week and move toward proportions of about 18%, 34% and 48% for those 3 runs. If I add more runs they'll probably be the same distance as the existing shortest one.
I always allow recovery days between runs to allow for unaccustomed muscles, joints & tendons. There's always some imbalances and tightness when re-starting. A little stretching after a cycling warmup on the days in between seems to work well to quell those and they soon subside. I might be a bit more aggressive if I'd only been off for 4-7 weeks. If this is a return after several years as in your case, rather than weeks or months, and if you had pain before, I'd start even shorter with maybe just 1km or so on the first run. Maybe even make it a 2x500m or 3x400m at an easy to moderate pace with a short walk in between so you can check you're okay, remember how it feels and find a rhythm/technique.
I think your first couple of runs might benefit from slightly higher than easy pace but for very short intervals. At a very slow pace it can be easy to drop into poor form, especially when you're no longer familiar with running. I think there's some merit to re-establishing your technique with a few short intervals (moderate, not hard!) before slowing down to an easy pace just to try and avoid incorporating bad habits from the start.
I rarely run more than 3 times a week, which I know is less than most and after the first few weeks I absolutely recognise that there are many ways to do things but for the first month I really can't see it being advisable to ramp up to 25miles (40km) per week. I'm sure it's possible but to my mind that's a very aggressive schedule.
Building to 25mpw of easy running over 3-4 weeks is NOT an aggressive schedule.
Note that the key is to run as many times as you can in a week, keeping all the runs 3, max 4miles in length.
If you try and do it on a 3 run/wk schedule like you are doing, you have to run 7-8 miles per run, which yes, will be a setup for an overuse injury. However, at 3mi/run, you will feel any impending overuse injuries before they happen, and you can pull back the training as needed before you get injured.
Also note that it is REALLY hard to build run volume on 3 runs per week, for the volume limitations above. Sure, if 3 runs/wk of 2-3mi each is all you can handle, start there, but I suspect Jason will be a lot better than that - he should go for the 6-7 runs per week of short distance and see where he stands.
I actually bet if he actually commits to doing this, he'll EASILY be at 30mpw in 4 weeks without injury if he does it with all easy miles, with 7 runs per week.
I don't know Jason but from what he's said, and for someone who's been away for running for a prolonged period, I can't agree.
I realise you're suggesting 6-7 runs a week but even so, if they're all equal distance that's 4.2 miles per run with 6 runs or 3.6 miles per run with 7 runs to reach 25 miles/wk. If you were to do some longer and some shorter, you'll most likely end up with runs in excess of 6 miles. I'm not suggesting cramming more miles into fewer runs as you seem to think. I'm suggesting similar or perhaps shorter distances and fewer of them, initially. As I said in my post, once you're able to run comfortably again there's lots of options and greater run frequency is an absolutely sensible suggestion. I'm not criticising that route in any way. But I don't see how a plan to go from zero to 25 miles per week in 4 weeks is not risky when the guy has been out of running for years and was injury prone when he did run.
Can you outline how this schedule would develop over the 4 weeks? How many runs and of what distances each of the 4 weeks? Are you suggesting 6-7 runs per week from day one or building number of runs along with distance over the 4 weeks?
Remember - Jason is NOT a totally green, overweight, totally out of shape older guy.
He is a top nationally competitive AG swimmer, and he has run a 40min 10k in the past. Sure, he's been out of running for years (?) but he HAS run before, and pretty well - that muscle memory DOES stick around, just as it does for swimming, and comes back quick.
Point is, I'm not recommending EVERYONE who's totally out of running and/or has not run before do a 4-wk buildup to 25mpw. And sure, I don't even know if Jason can do it but my suspicion is high that he can.
And the buildup:
2 miles a day, super easy effort (even 12min/mile is fine), shoot for 5-7 days in his first week. Ease up and take a day off if he really feels it's too hard on his body. I'll bet he gets in 4 if not more days of running this week.
Next week - he will EASILY add 1-2 runs to get to 7 runs that week if he's got 4 the first week. Still 2 miles/run.
Week after that - the body wakes up and he's adding 3miles to a bunch of those runs.
And week after that, he's going 3-4 miles depending on how he feels.
I don't think anyone can give more specifics than that. The most important thing though, is that at 2-3 miles per run at easy conversational pace, he will definitely be able to pull back before he gets an injury that sets him back from the buildup.
I also doubt it'll be a linear progression as I suggested - once his legs 'wake up' and acclimate to the minimal volume, it'll be a faster rampup to 'real' running speed and volume (which is when he needs to start thinking of a structured plan to avoid injury when he's going hard and/or long on the run.)
Also note that I'm assuming Jason isn't biking 100+mpw or something like a significant beat-down bike load for him. In fact, I'm not assuming he's biking at all based on what I know of him right now (which isnt much!) I do think he can handle the run + swim combo given how good he is at swimming. For an AGer who's biking hard, 25mpw of easy running added on top is a significant load. Without that significant cycling load, 25mpw of running alone broken up is pretty easy to do. My wife is a sporadic nonracing runner, def NOT talented whatsoever at running, and SHE can go out and start up at 20mpw pretty much immediately without injury. (She runs 14-16min/mile, which is her happy pace!)
