When he did this...what last week, two weeks ago? there was a bunch of sh*t talk speculation that the moto was cutting a hole in the wind for him. Maybe....maybe....maybe he's just a really, really fast cyclist.....on top of being a great swimmer and lighting on the run.

Ian

How about this morning at 70.3 Liuzhou? Super fast swim as well. Maybe a current?

http://ap.ironman.com/triathlon/coverage/athlete-tracker.aspx?race=liuzhou70.3&y=2017

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Keren
https://www.triathlonintokyo.org/
https://quintanarootri.com/ https://en-jp.wahoofitness.com/ https://www.worldtriathlonstore.com/

Haters gona hate. Tim Don is a beast, he has been working his tail off AND perfecting all the small details. Just look at his bike for starters. Add his slippery new suit, helmet and new form, it's no surprise he's coming out of the gate swinging.

19 minute swim and a close to world record 3:37? 1:11 run from Thomas? Jeanii Seymour runs a 1:17. Seems like a short course.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Could be short. Two of my athletes did big PBs, especially on the swim. Waiting to find out more.

Tim Don smashed it!

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Keren
https://www.triathlonintokyo.org/
https://quintanarootri.com/ https://en-jp.wahoofitness.com/ https://www.worldtriathlonstore.com/

He's been working with a British TT specialist turned triathete, Matt Bottrill, focusing specifically on his bike... paying off big time!

Absolutely!! I saw he ran a disc at the last race (not sure if it was on for this one or not), and he is now with ceramic speed, I'm sure all the little bits are adding up. Would love an in depth write up on his bike, more details than the ST one that was done.

And he is 'only' riding an old shiv... imagine all the time he could save on a P5-X or an andean.

Not sure if anyone posted this yet but

Jesse Thomas Strava for shows 55.9 bike and 12.8 run. FWIw

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Merge Multisport Founder & Head Coach
USAT Level 2 - Short & Long Course
Ironman Certified
Brevard, NC

And he said it was a downcurrent wetsuit swim.

Dang

I also noticed only 930 some odd feet of gain on the bike??

Make it easier to make it popular, I guess.

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Merge Multisport Founder & Head Coach
USAT Level 2 - Short & Long Course
Ironman Certified
Brevard, NC

Brad was 9th with a 3:52. Wait to see if he chimes in on this thread.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

I thought he was still riding a Shiv, hmmm.

I'm glad someone else noticed. Tim Don has been an excellent athlete for a long time and was one of tbe best ITU athletes pre-Brownlee era. It is, however, eyebrow raising to see the major improvements to his cycling leg compared to his previous peformances in such a short time period at this point in his career. I think the eyebrow raising regarding his cycling improvements is valid and should not be unexpected by Don or any other pro or amateur athlete alike. With that said, not every ITU star can adapt quickly to the physical demands of long course non-drafting triathlon. My hope is Don's improvements are entirely due to training, equipment and position changes that have finally allowed his talent and body to meet the demands to produce a top tier cycling leg in long course triathlon where in the past he wasn't able to.

Just a quick edit. I'm hoping Don or his team do video or an update on how Don has improved his training and position to realize his potential on the bike, which his recent results seem to demonstrate. I have always been a fan of his.

Thought I'd create a profile and chime in on this one.

I've been working with Tim for the last....10 months? ish? During that time I have gotten to know him pretty well and I can say he pays attention to all the small details. No stone is unturned in relation to the bike/dialing in position (the bike is the only thing I can speak about as I don't know much about his other training), and I can only imagine his attention to detail is on the same level with his swim and run training.

I like working with Tim because of this attention to detail, it meshes really well with my standards and I get to push the envelope with the bike builds and other things trying to find hidden speed, no matter how small it may be. Marginal gains add up for sure, but I know he has been putting in a monster effort and I'm happy to see him have a strong start to the season.

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CeramicSpeed
Technical/R&D, Americas.

What I don't understand about comments like this is that you seem to be saying that Tim leaves no stone unturned,but the logical question is why weren't these stones turned years ago then? Arguably they were more important back then because the time value of his career was higher.

Regardless, I think one reason people are such fans of Lionel, Jesse Thomas, and others is they are so transparent. I don't know why big name pros aren't putting their data out there. People want to see data. If someone is working with a pro, they should be chronicling the improvements. This is the most authentic way to actually plug sponsors.

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Hi Thomas, I hope you are doing well.

As you can understand, I can't speak on the questions you present as I do not know. I was just inserting my two cents on the matter. I do not collect data from the athlete(s) nor do I have the resources to do so. I'm just a mechanic.

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CeramicSpeed
Technical/R&D, Americas.

thanks whistlepig, interesting..

here's Tim's bike from his 2006 ITU champs win.. sure it's improved since then..

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Love it!!! It's cool to see how frame design has changed so much from then (not THAT long ago) to now. Thanks for sharing!

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CeramicSpeed
Technical/R&D, Americas.

Well, the bike isn't as important in ITU racing. They don't even race on TT bikes, or in the TT position or actually care at all about aerodynamics or efficiency on the bike, at least compared to you guys. Sure, he has been racing long course for 4 years or so but maybe he thought his athleticism/natural ability would bring him through.

There was probably/maybe a certain lack of respect towards his competitors when he started racing non-draft stuff. This is a former ITU world champion and as an athlete is far better than anyone else from his era doing long course. he beat all the guys winning the long course stuff (most were rejects at the ITU level) and he might have thought he could waltz in. Frodeno shows that a good (but not great) ITU guy (which he was with one big win (Olympics) and only 2 others at ITU WCS level (individual)...http://www.triathlon.org/...lts/5692/jan_frodeno) has the ability to wipe the floor with most current long course athletes. Tim Don was a far better ITU athlete than Frodeno (15 ITU Championship level wins...http://www.triathlon.org/...results/5305/tim_don) but he is older (only 3 years though). Now he has put the effort into the non-athletic side of things his natural talent (and hard work) is now showing his true potential at this discipline. 70.3 is also not a giant step up from what he spent his career doing in terms of distance/time.

Since we're comparing ITU credentials and abilities, I'll just add that Frodeno was known on the circuit to be a very strong cyclist, Don wasn't. People can change and improve, of course; but I thought that was worth adding.

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Jason Pedersen
RunPd.com - Running as fast I can since '93
@jasonpedersen

Just want to comment that I'm not a fan of the disrespect and skepticism being tossed Don's way. His ST interviews have always been incredibly transparent and forthcoming. He trains with others in Boulder which can be deemed as transparent.

His cycling was never slow. His times on the bike the last couple of years have been awesome. And, his runs have slowed these last two races as a result of killing the bike, which makes it in the realm of being human. Yours and other's skeptical comments suggest foul play - maybe you could be more transparent in your skepticism and come out and say where your skepticism is coming from. I'm just not seeing improvements not in line with Don's results these last several years and this is a guy who ran 28 for the 10k on the road; I don't think it's unreasonable for him to get his bike into the 4.2 w/kg range and he's small, so his frontal area has to be tiny.

He's no less transparent than Gomez or Frodo. I'm all ears for objective, sound reasons to publically cast skepticism on Don.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Hey Colin- Been watching this but haven't had time to write anything yet. But first I would like to reference a few of Cody Beals thoughts from the Campeche "Tim Don" thread: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...che_70.3_P6255541-3/


That first point is what I want to highlight first off, because I have the utmost respect for Tim, was a big fan when I was an AG'er and am still a huge fan of his as a peer. " Lead vehicles impacting the race are not his problem and shouldn't cheapen his win in any way. This is Ironman's and race directors' responsibility."


A couple addition thoughts:
- The counter argument from race organizers will be that we need the media coverage, it is good for the sport, etc. I find it hard to believe that the technology in video cameras fail to have "Zoom" features to where they couldn't go out to 25-50m up the road and still get "decent" footage. What would have been better coverage would have been Tim and Jesse running side by side on the run duking it out.
- If you look at the splits, Tim put time into Jesse on Splits 1 & 2 (which was lap 1), and then Jesse pulled back some time, not nearly as much as was put into him, on splits 3 & 4 (lap 2).
- To the point above, Tim only had a moto with him on LAP 1, that was it. Jesse had a moto with him for Lap 2, although not sure how long it was with him, I do not believe it was the whole lap though, I believe it was a short period (but not positive).
- I only saw Tim at the first out and back section, and from my perspective for those brief few seconds the moto was 5-10 meters in front of him, but staggered off to the left side. Where we crossed paths was only 1 lane each way.

About 70.3 Liuzhou:
- By far my favorite 70.3 in China thus far (I have raced all 3 new ones, and even raced Hainan/Haikou 70.3 back in 2009).
- Swim was CURRENT assisted, I lost ~2mins to Tim here, where in Xiamen I lost ~6mins to him and ~8mins to Josh (that swim had a strong current).
- I rode with Pat Evoe & Kaito Tohara. Pat and myself did most of the work bridging to the chase pack at mile 30. By that point Jesse Thomas and Justin Metzler had already gotten away. I got away from the chase pack at the last U turn, and then Pat bridged to me, and then about 10K later dropped me. I rode solo back from there to T2. Average Power was 287 / NP 296, first 1.5hrs were 295/303(faded bad the last 30mins.)
- The run was flat for the most part but had a few short "climbs", basically just on ramps and off ramps of the bridge that we crossed, and then those ramps brought us back to water level along the river.
Course Lengths:
-- Swim, take my Garmin for what it is worth: 1,937 yards (https://www.strava.com/activities/922716774)
-- Bike: 55.9 miles: https://www.strava.com/activities/922706801
--- Justin Metzler's File: https://www.strava.com/activities/922755700
--- Jesse's File: https://www.strava.com/activities/922732418
-- Run: 12.8 miles (some had it at 12.9) https://www.strava.com/activities/922716794
--Transitions: Both were quite long, from the Swim to T1 there were 82 stairs (I believe that is what we were told, it may have been 92). T2 was quite long as well.
-- My T1 Time: 3:53 / Tim Don's: 2:50
-- My T2 Time: 2:18 / Tim Don's 2:17

Not sure what other info you guys are looking for, it's a fast course, great road surface and the weather was great. As for Tim, he is riding strong right now, he has been putting in the work and lets stop putting the blame on the athletes for the "moto problem". And refer back to Cody's points to remember who we are talking about here "Tim is obviously a world class athlete...." and then see above where another poster pointed out his "historical" accomplishments.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

might be for another thread, but this race was just fantastic! compared to every south, central or north american race this one is my top 3 list.

incredible swim: besides having current, it was alongside beautiful waterfalls, monasterys on top of hills chinese style, typical old architecture styled house all over. and, on the other side of the river, modern and powerful chinese huge buildings (even for a small 2 million city). these guys are scary.

bike: new road, no turns (besides 2 laps), 100% closed, couple of small 2-4% climbs, get your disc, long sleeved suit and all that watt saving stuff and you'll get your PB. crazy fast!

run: almost flat as commented by brad, excelente temperature.

with 30 KQ, 50 for 70.3 worlds, excelent hotels for cheap... it's a must.

i qualified for 70.3 but didn't sign up: i'd rather come back here, have a great experience, than go to tennesee and place 135 in my AG. only downside was communication breakdowns all over. and real chinese food is for brave stomachs.

Yet again Tim appears to be breaking the laws of physics!

I am not getting into these debates and I don't want to call anyone out specifically, I AM NOT calling Tim Don out, I am saying it would help if all athletes were more transparent as it would easily silence any critics. If u see that as calling out Tim then I am sorry for the confusion.

On an aside, nearly every pro just wants a fair race. Do I personally think we should study the effects of vehicular traffic on the outcomes of races, yes I do. To blindly turn our backs on the subject is foolish. Fwiw, I did not ask about lead vehicles at the pro meeting at Galveston. Another pro did. Many of us know it can be an issue, the problem is nobody speaks about it or is afraid to because then people jump down their throats.

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Tim has always been meticulous with his training and racing. Why would you suggest he didn't have the "no stone unturned" approach in his ITU days?

Tim is also very open with his knowledge and data to some extent. There are a LOT of pros that keep some data close for obvious reasons. Why would Tim give out his methods, which are working, to his competitors? Just because Jeff is building Tim's bikes doesn't give him the right to advertise the changes he makes, unless Tim approves it.

As someone mentioned, he trains with different groups in Boulder, there's images and videos up of him training. So no secrets there. I don't understand your comment about data being the most authentic way to plug his sponsors. Don't you feel winning races does this? It's not like he hides when he's not racing. He's just doing his job, train, working with sponsors and wins races. You don't have to be an open book to plug a sponsor authentically.

Because people like data, people like to see what pros are doing. Hoffman is by far the most transparent and his strava has value. There are no secret sessions anyone is doing - this isn't rocket science.

Do work, be consistent, don't overtrain, don't get injured...

What benefit does Tim get by NOT putting this stuff out there. Other than like social media it takes some minimal effort to do so.

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Are you referring to training sessions or equipment changes/improvements? Either way Tim's new sessions and equipment modifications are working, so why would he offer this info to his competitors? Not saying he wouldn't, but why would he? No offense, but you're not on the same level as Tim and those other athletes you named, so of course you are going to want to see their data, their equipment, etc. But why would any of them offer those specifics up to athletes they are competing against. Makes no sense to me.
Tim posts some of his sessions online, if you want to see his sessions you can get them, but your original post sounded like you wanted to see Tim's and other pros documented improvements, which could come from a number of things. If you want to see know what products he's using or what general changes he's made, then follow him online, watch him race, communicate with him on social media. What does Ben Hoffman do that Tim Don does not in showcasing his improvements?

Since you have already quoted me incorrectly, specifically in the last post, I will clarify things further. First the previous post which I neglected to correct you on.

You said:

"Tim has always been meticulous with his training and racing. Why would you suggest he didn't have the "no stone unturned" approach in his ITU days? "

I never said in his ITU days, I said "years ago". Specifically I was actually referring to the start of his long course career and my point was that if he leaves "no stones unturned", then why was he waiting for so many years to make these changes? I have no doubt Tim Don is a professional, I was questioning why he was making these changes now instead of in say 2014.

Second, I really was referring to neither training sessions or equipment changes. I was talking about race files and I wasn't specifically targeting Tim Don. He just happens to be the person of interest in the thread, but I think for anyone that wins races, there is value there to show a run file with heart rate or a power file.

I don't really know who you are, personally it sounds like you are an acquaintance of Tim Don. Regardless I am not really sure if you know who I am. But why do I write things up like my Giro Empire SLX shoes: http://www.thomasgerlach.com/...es-aerodynamics.html. Are you aware of how many pros an age-groupers have no adopted something exact or very similar. I was just thanked twice at Galveston 70.3 during the middle of the run for this piece and I told both people they are "more than welcome" and I was "happy to do it". Frankly, I wrote it because it is interesting and I am happy to share with all. I don't want any advantage over my competition. I am an open book. I want to share what I am working on, what I am exploring.

But for the record there are for six pros that I can think of right that I look to myself for bike equipment stuff outside of subjective "feel" criteria. They are: Chris Lieto, Sebi, Jordan Rapp, TJ, Cody Beals, and now recently Jan Frodeno, after knowing how much he and his supporters are putting into his equipment. Do I look to Tim Don for equipment, no I do not, but if Tim Don puts together a Service Course sheet on his equipment, regardless of whether he is sponsored or not, don't you think people are going to hold his views of sponsor equipment higher instead of just assuming he is on the take if he also highlights non-sponsored equipment??? I realize his manager might not like giving free publicity, but hey if it continues to increase Tim Don's visibility I think it can make up for it.

In regards to training sessions or pacing within the race, I don't look at any files to replicate the training. I do my own training, the training that is for me. Frankly, a guy like Tim Don is not going to help me with my training anyway. Professionals understand this, people with coaches understand this, it is typically the people who are either fans or athletes who don't know what they are doing and those aren't the people Tim has to worry about beating him anyway. Frankly, every world class professional says they want to line-up against the best version of their competitors anyway, so why not try to spoon feed them if that is really the case.

What does Ben Hoffman do that Tim Don does not. Ben is active on Strava among other things. Many triathletes/race participants are active on Strava. They can go back and look at Hoffman's training and compare, NOT do, compare. They can also see what he did in the race. And one of the biggest perks about triathlon is that pros compete along side the age-groupers. On the Strava you can go back and view the FlyBys. It is incremental exposure but there is value there.

And no offense taken not being on the same level. I work hard at triathlon, I may not be Jan Fordeno and Ben Hoffman, but trust me, I am trying my best to unearth huge boulders beneath the surface.

Again, I will reiterate, I wasn't blasting Tim Don. I have a lot of respect for what Tim Don has accomplished.

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Maybe you weren't referring to Tim's ITU days but what makes you think he's just now taking the "no stone unturned" approach? He's ALWAYS take taken this approach, but he may have found new solutions after years of testing.

Because you were replying to Jeff, who works on Tim's bike I assumed you were responding to data about his equipment.

I know who you are and I personally don't care that you share your shoe lace knowledge. It's great that people thanked you for your discovery/creation, I am happy for you. As a side note, it sounds like you were just looking for a pat on the back by posting that. As far as being an open book and not wanting any advantage over your competition, that is a ridiculous statement if you are trying to make a living out of this sport.

I posted that because it conveys my point - an example of sharing the data instead of keeping it secret - but thanks for again taking any opportunity to cut me down. I have more examples and I have some new ones in the pipeline but yes, I like to try to back up my statements when I make them. I am sorry if in this instance it seems like I was "looking for a pat on the back". Believe me I don't need any pats on the back, if you have a better way to assert that specific point effectively without using myself as an example I am all ears

Are you by chance still upset that I slept in my own bed and went for a training day at Ironman Wisconsin a few years back. Is this what this all about???

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Nope, don't ever recall that thread. I'll have to read it some day though, seems interesting.

Well given that thread and the fact that you are making my exact same point about this thread in another thread (see below), I was beginning to believe I had another personal troll magically appear after PV disappeared...

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No idea who PV is or how you think that post relates to what you are saying in this thread about Tim.

I am insulted that you left me off that list, you are now added to my list that is top secret ;)

People I will focus on always outbiking, no matter if it leads to blowing up on the run:
- Thomas Gerlach
- ...........
- ...........
- ...........

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

 "I don't want any advantage over my competition."

Really? This may be the most shocking statement I have ever heard from a professional athlete. In any sport. Period.

I don't think you get paid for 26th in a 70.3 so calling TG a professional athlete may be a stretch

Well I'm not here to take shots at him just shocked by the comment. I wouldn't even say that as an AGer.

Man, that is pretty brutal. You realize I am just getting over a month with mono? I went to support a friend but thanks for piling on :)

Does it look like I went to the well or does it look like I was out there to get some aerobic fitness??? https://www.strava.com/activities/925470726

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I will never understand comments like this. He is a professional without a doubt. Hasa pro license, races other pro's, makes a living racing. So what if he took 26th? It doesn't make him any less of a professional. Let's use teams that are the worst performers in the NFL, NBA and MLB as examples. Are they not still professionals? Still much better then 99% of the population. Plus, i think the guy deserves a break it isn't like he hasn't had good results. Triathlon seems to have this strange Ricky Bobby complex "if you're not first you're last"

My point exactly. I am shocked to hear that from a professional athlete.

I see Tim is not far off 40. Anyone know how much age impacts on speed and recovery as you approach your fifth decade?