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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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You read the whole thread? Sarcasm TG. Some expert commentary on the first page.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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No bro. Typical witch hunt. That link is fake news.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
You read the whole thread? Sarcasm TG. Some expert commentary on the first page.

We all know this topic is difficult for me. Honestly if a pro told me 5 years ago how it really works I would have never started down this path. The amount of time I spend swimming in relation to biking/running is sickening. Getting faster swimming helps u in so many ways ;)

But I am going to duck out. This topic just makes me angry. 15 min interval startin in 30 seconds...


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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [tilburs] [ In reply to ]
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I mean, this topic means a lot to me. I am passionate about it. As someone who has lead smaller races I understand how truly impactful race vehicles can be. I have lots of ideas and I didn't put a lot of thought into that response as I was banging away while riding, but my point is we aren't even trying to address the topic. Similar to an Athlete's Biological Passport we should be building an Athlete's Physics Passport as well.That is in conjunction with education of all parties about how they may be *unintentionally* affecting race outcomes. Believe me, I get a bad rap from a lot of my peers because I am vocal about this stuff. I realize I risk sponsorship dollars, friendships, etc, but I just want the fairest race possible for myself, fellow competitors, the fans of sport, and society.


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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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First of all, I'm glad to see pro races generating so much discussion!

I've been hesitant to comment publicly on the issue of lead vehicle interference for a number of reasons. Only fellow pro athletes, those who follow the sport closely or those with some background in aerodynamics appreciate the severity and prevalence of this problem. Discussing this issue immediately following a race can come across as unsportsmanlike and unprofessional.

I've been on both ends of the vehicle advantage/disadvantage. As a relatively weaker swimmer and stronger cyclist, interference by vehicles has had an overwhelmingly negative effect on my racing. I'm confident that it has cost me fastest bike splits (and bonuses), if not higher finishes on more than one occasion. In the past at local races, I can point to some incredible power-speed relationships thanks to lead vehicles. The good news is that I believe that most Ironman races are very fair and problems with vehicles are the exception, not the norm.

I feel that Trevor's comments in his recent Slowtwitch interview were honest yet tactful. I couldn't resist adding a few statements and disclaimers:

-Tim is obviously a world class athlete, not to mention an athlete I like and admire. Lead vehicles impacting the race are not his problem and shouldn't cheapen his win in any way. This is Ironman's and race directors' responsibility. I by no means wish to suggest that the outcome at Campeche would have been any different.

-Word has it that Tim has been working on his bike fitness and aerodynamics. That could quite conceivably account for a good deal of his dominance on the bike.

-Based on what I observed during the race and post-race discussions with other pros, I don't doubt that the motorcycles at the front of the race provided some advantage. How much, I can't say.

-I was fit and reasonably well rested in Campeche. I rode well and generally had a good day. I'd give myself an A- for overall execution.

-Unfortunately, I don't have power data since my head unit was stolen at the airport. My best guess is an average power a little over 300W, in line with my other good 70.3 races, based on fitness, perceived exertion and comparing numbers to other pros. Typically, when I've averaged over 300W, it's been enough to set 70.3 bike course records and outride all but a small group of uberbikers, especially when the field is fragmented into small groups like at Campeche.

-Trevor and Jordan are both very strong cyclists. Sometimes I outride them, sometimes they outride me. I consider us all in the same league of "strong cyclists" a rung below the uberbikers.

-Developing a better understanding of how lead vehicles can impact the pro race has dictated significant changes to my training and tactics.

-I've been corresponding with Ironman and other pros about this issue. I would like to see Ironman take stronger measures to ensure that the influence of vehicles on the pro race is minimized. I appreciate that it's a complex issue balancing factors like fairness, athlete safety and quality media coverage. One simple measure would be for Ironman to issue clear and quantitative guidelines for best practices for vehicles on the course to all race directors. These guidelines would then me passed on to every single driver (officials, police, media) at a briefing prior to every single race. In the meantime, I plan to raise this issue at pro briefings.

Anyways, I need to avoid getting drawn deeper into this discussion. Among other reasons, I need to focus on racing again in Galveston next weekend.

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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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Lol. The first part of the video I clicked on was about 12 minutes in and the film crew might have as well been inside his bottom bracket. Non-cyclists don't know how much just being close to a car helps; the rider doesn't have to be 3 feet directly behind it. We see wacky race execution stuff like this all the time in countries that don't have a huge middle class and cycling culture. Not enough people bike recreationaly/competitively to know what's right and wrong.

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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:
I honestly thought the comment by Trevor was very unwise. Basically, on no evidence, other than I was going hard so there is no way someone can have been going harder than me,he calls another athlete a cheat. He even admits he didn't have the visual on it.

1) Why is anybody surprised that Tim won this race. This is a class above the others at this distance. Lets remember when on form he was 3rd only to Javier/Jan at the WC.
2) He is quite small so maybe he has a lower drag.
3) Perhaps the course suited Tim more. Trevor own words "It starts off with a steep little climb and decent, then you hit rolling highway. Pretty solid rollers," I would guess this course suits a smaller/light biker like Tim?
4) Maybe he has made a step up.
5)Maybe he pushed the bike hard than normal.

Typical ST witch hunt.

See what Brooks and I wrote. No one is calling Don a cheat. Trevor did not either. If you are leading a race, and the motos can't get out of the way and have less power than your legs, its not your responsibility to slow down. This is all on the race organizer, not Tim Don assuming the motos got in Don's way. If Tim Don was just more aero and powerful with no moto interference, good for him, but if the motos interfered with his riding, that's not his problem.

As I said previously I am a Tim Don fan and feel he got the short end of the stick from UK selectors for the London Olympics (there were countless threads on that topic back in 2012 on here).
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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the snippet I saw. Granted it wasn't like this for very long, but shows at times the moto couldn't out run him. By the way, that is 100% Tim Don behind that moto.
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Re: Tim Don - Campeche 70.3 [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with every single thing you just said. I'd even strengthen one part of it. Instead of "best practices", I think it should be "mandatory practices." If we leave it at best, people won't follow it in the heat of the moment.

Good luck, Cody!

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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