I am, but I'm also not.


2. Prize money is too heavily weighted for the win. $50K win, 25k second then counting down with 10th getting more money or paying deeper.
As it is, $2,500 for 10th means expenses aren't even covered. I think this would attract much deeper fields and you'd have athletes whom were perhaps really strong cyclists but talented enough to win trying to thow down in their individual strength which would liven the race up a bit.

2a. A "Prime" for first across in each leg / segment / whatever could be exciting, as with intermediate sprint points in stage racing.

It's exciting but 2:30 a.m. here in the eastern US is either a bit to late or early for ideal real time enjoyment. My forecast is that Alistair and Javier will put on a clinic.

Hugh

It's not that complicated. I think you and others are just used to the super standard stale formats we have had for a while now.

Super League is about bringing back the glory races from the 90s, which had every pro excited and ready to race. Look up F1 triathlons in Australia, and other super sprint races in the States from that time. Some were done in a velodrome - 25m temporary pool in the middle, ride on the track and run laps at the base. The switch up in order also promotes different kinds of racers and tactics. The fields were totally stacked and the racing super hot.

So only US option is to watch live? Or will there be replay available online at any time?

Sounds too much like Super Friends

B_Doughtie wrote:

Thx

Should be fun. The one thing I like about this league is that it atleast seems like it's athlete focused. Another website article stated appearance fees are $10k-$250k so that helps lock the athletes into the league. I know some of the itu federations give reimbursements to athletes when they race well. And yes some of the big names are funded regardless of race result. So I like that this league is forming around the athlete.

I've thought itu is getting a little too big by 2 races these days, especially when you can sit out 1/3rd of the races and still win the whole thing. That to me means too many events. but it's problay helpful financially to make more events so 5000 AGers can race day before and help offset costs.

There's a reason BS every telecast always mentions the "thousands of AGers who raced....Abu Dhabi/Gold Coast/London/Madrid etc". It's a huge way to help w costs. But I also think that's factor in adding more and more events over the past 4-5 years.

I followed them on twotter a couple weeks ago, haven't seen a single piece of media related to ladies, so tweeted them and asked if it were a sausage-fest or not. They've chosen not to reply.

Whats the story, have I missed something? Are there female events?

Flora Duffy was on TRS and she responded that she was invited... but then Super League came back with some excuse saying how they couldn't make a women's field happen this year. I wonder if its because many of the top women were not available... Thats really all i heard on the women's side.

Didn't look all that closely at the specifics of the events, but I'll take Cam Dye in every non-draft bike segment (if there are any).

eta: what time is the event starting?

In a few hours right?

What does "all goes well" mean? TV numbers? Good reviews? Is there a barometer of success to determine future events?

eta: what time is the event starting?

In a few hours right?

Will there be a live stream on their website?

Guess they aren't streaming the time trial online (in US?) I am refreshing the page and still getting a replay on the live screen...

not according to their event site. time trail at 6am AEST (4pm US EST).

Part 2 of the Equalizer is at 14:30 AEST

just saw on instagram the first guy is off on the TT

I'm guessing only 1 bike was allowed if organization was footing entire travel bill for athletes.

Alistair will be in danger of getting lapped on the bike and eliminated. This is certainly going to be a kick up the arse for him, probably what he needs to realise he can't just stroll long course.

The white uniforms are the 2 junior athletes. I guess they got the late call up due to couple out with injuries as weren't in the original line up.

I sorta like the juniors in the white unis to stand out especially when they are among the top 10. Excited for the race coming up soon or maybe like 6 more hours to go?

After watching Super League the last 2 days I am forever spoiled as to what triathlon should look like on TV. I wasn't bored for one minute. I thought I liked watching ITU, but now I'm not so sure.

After watching Super League the last 2 days I am forever spoiled as to what triathlon should look like on TV. I wasn't bored for one minute. I thought I liked watching ITU, but now I'm not so sure.

Only thing I'd like to see is if we are stoked about the different race formats creating different race winners...for the individual race wins to actually matter more than the same time as each segment bonus. If s/b/r/ segments are 5s bonuses, then give the winner 20s bonus, etc. But that's only addition I'd add to it. I dont think a race win equals a segment leader if you are giving time bonuses.

The grand final is September 16th, but then Island House is on November 17-18th. Island House will surely have to up their game in terms of broadcasting the event considering how well Super League did here.

There are so many ways to make the long course races more interesting, that won't cost a fortune.

So to the people that mentioned ITU and "rolling peloton...I've watched both day 1 and day 2 and for the most part every bike segment (except for the ITT) turned into a rolling peloton.

2) Introduce bonuses every 5k. Not money, but hit the line in the first 3. And you get to short cut some of the course. Or just regular time bonuses

3) Introduce a joker card that you can play twice a season if you are dropped on the swim so you can get back on terms on the bike.

You should never be able to "coast" in the final race and win overall. I think they even said on the telecast after the bike "yep Murray knows he has it now". Point system could work to get top 10 and then it's simply final race, winner take all.

You should never be able to "coast" in the final race and win overall. I think they even said on the telecast after the bike "yep Murray knows he has it now". Point system could work to get top 10 and then it's simply final race, winner take all.

Someone could cross the tape third overall in the race and still win. That's ludicrous.




So... hold the lead bike pack up to wait for the slow poke?

The ITU need to have a serious brainstorm and see what they can come up with. What about replacing some of the stale, flat bike course Olympic events with back-to-back sprints - so S (750m), B (20k), R (5k), S (750m), B (20k), R (5k)?

There really isn't a format they could do that would allow for separation on the bike. Even a swim-run bike or run-swim-bike will end up with 75% of that field in a group on the bike. The athletes are just that good and the distances are too short really.


Brooks,

I wish people and (triathletes in particular) would just get over this - it's the dynamics and physics of bike riding and racing in a group. Good grief - 291 km of hard racing at Milan San Remo on the weekend created only 5 sec of separation for the eventual 3 podium placers at the end of the race from the main field of contenders.

I like where you are headed with at least one stage ending on the bike. However, I think the bike being non-draft would present a real challenge at the finish. How would you officiate if you had a Kona no-draft train of 10-20 athletes that all want to go for the win 400-800 meters from the finish? If you made just the last 800m or so draft legal, then do you have a safety concern as most athletes would probably be riding TT bikes and the last 800m would potentially bunch them together for a sprint finish.

I'd like to see the triple mix actually be a triple mix:
Race 1: SBR - draft legal
Race 2: RSB - draft legal, uphill finish
Race 3: BRS - non-draft, TT bike start with leader going last. This rewards high placement in the two above phases with more rest/recovery time.

Biggest thing I learned?


Ali Brownlee must be getting sick money from Adidas because every interview and in any tv time for him if he wasn't wearing that SL uni he was wearing adidas gear. Every other athlete in the pre race interviews had on SL sponsored shirts and Ali is wearing adidas gear. I thought that stood out every time i saw him getting interviewed when not in race gear. #3stripes

Ali and Jonny are both quoted as saying they don't actually buy many clothes since Adidas send them truck loads of stuff regularly.

Fair play to them. They are both millionaires. Estimated (for whatever that's worth) at around £3M. I'd wear Adidas all day, every day for that money too :D

What I find more surpiseing uis that Gomex hasn't (afaik) got any blue chip sponsors? Even Mola has Nike

I might have a bad memory but I recall there were gaps on bike coming into transition in more than one race

I think that the reason none of the events ended with a bike is very much a safety issue. Almost all these guys race for their federation and needed to feel pretty confident of finishing the series in one piece and in form for the next wts race. Bike sprint finishes have a bigger risk of carnage and many federations may not have given approval for their athletes to race if the risks were any higher. As it was these guys were taking enough risks, flying down that hill at 85km getting airborne coming into that corner.

Would be no different to finishing on the bike.. they would still be going all out jostling to be first into transition, they take enough risks at this stage already, everyone wants to be first in and out of transition.
I don't understand why so many of you believe anything needs to change. This was awesome as it was, a triathlete needs to be great at all 3 legs, not just the bike, otherwise they are a cyclist.

Didn't we have a bike iTT that was the only event not televised out of the 3 days? And what did we find happen? There really isn't all that much separation at that level, which was my original point to you. I dont care if you do S-R or R-S and finish with a bike leg. You are going to have that group of athletes finish in a group finish, or atleast 80% of them at this sprint distance. Unless you forced them to ride non-draft, which sorta takes away the "exciting" part of it. Also you will never ever be allowed to ride a TT bike and mass sprint finish, just completely unsafe to even suggest.


If you suggested olympic distance and finish with a bike, yes they'll have much more separation. I'm not sure which format would break up the pack more S-R or R-S and then bike, but that would be the only distance that would actually allow for "fairness". Because at these super sprint distances, you may have a strong bike breakaway from a peloton but your not going to have a final bike leg and finish with it all blown up. Maybe a few take flyers but most will still be able to stay on the wheels for a 8k bike leg. How many times did we see the big bike pack finish together every race? A short swim-run or run-swim isn't going to change that.

So what you are suggesting wont make much difference at this level. Now would it be cool to see them finish one of the races with a bike finish + 100m sprint run finish (like they did with the swim finishing last but you still had to run to finish) absolutely. But it's not going to cause great TT'ers to breakaway. Too much talent and too short of time at that level, especially for a 20 min race.

Didn't we have a bike iTT that was the only event not televised out of the 3 days? And what did we find happen? There really isn't all that much separation at that level, which was my original point to you. I dont care if you do S-R or R-S and finish with a bike leg. You are going to have that group of athletes finish in a group finish, or atleast 80% of them at this sprint distance. Unless you forced them to ride non-draft, which sorta takes away the "exciting" part of it. Also you will never ever be allowed to ride a TT bike and mass sprint finish, just completely unsafe to even suggest.


If you suggested olympic distance and finish with a bike, yes they'll have much more separation. I'm not sure which format would break up the pack more S-R or R-S and then bike, but that would be the only distance that would actually allow for "fairness". Because at these super sprint distances, you may have a strong bike breakaway from a peloton but your not going to have a final bike leg and finish with it all blown up. Maybe a few take flyers but most will still be able to stay on the wheels for a 8k bike leg. How many times did we see the big bike pack finish together every race? A short swim-run or run-swim isn't going to change that.

So what you are suggesting wont make much difference at this level. Now would it be cool to see them finish one of the races with a bike finish + 100m sprint run finish (like they did with the swim finishing last but you still had to run to finish) absolutely. But it's not going to cause great TT'ers to breakaway. Too much talent and too short of time at that level, especially for a 20 min race.

Curious why 3k swim (which is very long) compared to a 5k bike (8 min effort) and 5 min run effort? I think if you want 2 legs super fast intense, you make the swim 500m etc, not a 35 min swim- 5 min bike-5 min run.

But I like the idea. Itu actually does what you are suggesting at one of their events in Kitzbuhel. They don't let the athletes pick the heats but they have short heat racing that leads to elimination and small field final. But it's DL for each race.

My guess is that at some point our USAT junior nationals will be a semifinal/final heat process. I think we can have the demand for it half dozen years or so.

Specialised, Roka are both massive sponsors of Gomez.

But also why, these formats were awesome to watch.. if a longer tt added then other events would need to be cut, the weekend appeared gruelling enough as it was without extending the distances. Remember these athletes need to fly in, race, then back to training to keep their federations happy. Also from watching I believe finishing with a bike would still be same result at end of day. Those runners would just break away instead of allowing the pack to come together, And In case you didn't notice the runner who won the final race on day 3 was also the guy only 2 seconds behind Dye in the TT. No matter what you do in this short,TV friendly formatt the cream rises to the top.

Are you suggesting this for WTS itu level racing or all star style events (which is what I consider Island House/SLT). Wts events have too large of fields to organize 6 person heats as it would be far too much on the organizers to have 10 heats just to get everyone through the 1st round. So then how many rounds do you want to have? Your heat/final idea could work for a much smaller field just not at wts level when it's 60+ athletes that factor in.

Lets say ITU.....

...
the ITU could have a super sprint distance, lets say 300m swim/ 5K bike/1.5K run ....if you read what I wrote everyone does a solo TT super sprint triathlon to qualify for the heats....lets say you have 60....top 30 qualify....the rest go home....BOOM (who said anything about 10 heats????)

now you have 30...do heat as I described above. Lets make it non drafting to make it "fair"

you could do top 20 if you want less rounds of heats....

If the ITU cant figure this out they can send someone to the Nordic sprint world championships and they can explain it to them....


Itu I don't think is necessarily wed to any event as they've changed over last few years from strictly Olympic distance to now sprint distance races. I just haven't really seen a format that actually can be implemented. Now I do think S-B-R and DL are locked in but that's because it's the actual most simple, 1st to the line wins, no rules on drafting etc. DL actually does create an "easier" race where there isn't "judgement" calls from officials. Did you cross the mount line yes or no? That's easy to decide. But an non draft official has a much much harder decision on actually knowing with absolute certanity that athlete is drafting or not.

Yes its easy.......as well as unbalanced and not "fair" (also boring to watch them roll around in a pack with little to no action on the bike) ....Going to sprints was massive creativity (sarcasm) .....

ETA: I say I haven't seen any formats that can be used to replace the current setup, unless you want to simply do like F1 double style S/B/R/S/B/R etc. But your not going to get an organization to have non draft and DL rules for the bike, like was earlier suggested. And you also aren't going to get 6 person heats when the field is size of current WTS level. Now some people have actually lobbied for WTS races to be cut down to 40 or so athletes, which would have impact on current racing dynamics. DL actually takes out the judgement and pretty much turns it into a more pure "just race", 1st to the line wins. Don't have to worry about your position you just ride your bike.

Since when was a non draft bike leg or tt more exciting than a road race or draft legal bike leg with people attacking? You did catch the people attacking on bike at super league didn't you? Also at rio and Athens Olympics? In a sense the stronger cyclist you are in a drafting race the more potential you have to be less tired for the run. The brownlees cycle as many hours as many ironman guys over the course of a week

Since when was a non draft bike leg or tt more exciting than a road race or draft legal bike leg with people attacking? You did catch the people attacking on bike at super league didn't you? Also at rio and Athens Olympics? In a sense the stronger cyclist you are in a drafting race the more potential you have to be less tired for the run. The brownlees cycle as many hours as many ironman guys over the course of a week

Run 4K/Swim 750 meters/Run 4K/ Swim 750 meters/ Bike 40K/ Run 2k.....can you at least concede this would be: more exciting than the Standard ITU oly format with more places switching up during the event and the bike would require people to have to bike hard (and try to work with some others but not likely in a huge pack) to get to the front??

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If you are trying to push for "exciting" and multiple disciplines it's going to have to have each leg done equal amount of times. You can't preach exciting and then say the bike is one continuous hour long stretch....that will create boredom.

Run 4K/Swim 750 meters/Run 4K/ Swim 750 meters/ Bike 40K/ Run 2k.....can you at least concede this would be: more exciting than the Standard ITU oly format with more places switching up during the event and the bike would require people to have to bike hard (and try to work with some others but not likely in a huge pack) to get to the front??

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If you are trying to push for "exciting" and multiple disciplines it's going to have to have each leg done equal amount of times. You can't preach exciting and then say the bike is one continuous hour long stretch....that will create boredom.

e reason the current format is boring is because a large group of the filed rolls around for 55 minutes on the bike with very small probability that any attack will have the probability of working....

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Yes that was my last post point. It's not the format that needs revamping. They don't need to have 8 transitions to make it exciting. They can have a ton of excitement in a 50 min sprint race if they add technical elements to the course. Just keep improving the courses, which itu did at Abu Dhabi.

But if you want 8 disciplines there is no way your going to get it established that your format will have 3 run 3 swim and only 1 continuous bike. It's going to have to be equal bike/swim/run legs.

The other thing you are missing is that ITU racing is just that, ITU racing. This means Olympic style, be it sprint or Olympic distance, it still has to follow the format. That is how the Olympics work, you couldn't have a 400m track running event and throw in a few hurdles and call it 400m, or chuck in a triple jump just to mix it up. ITU is Olympic format with Olympic selection points, it has to be the same racing as would be happening at the games or that triple jumper who managed to qualify is really going to struggle when he makes the team and another athlete who is great at the standard format misses out.

e reason the current format is boring is because a large group of the filed rolls around for 55 minutes on the bike with very small probability that any attack will have the probability of working....

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Yes that was my last post point. It's not the format that needs revamping. They don't need to have 8 transitions to make it exciting. They can have a ton of excitement in a 50 min sprint race if they add technical elements to the course. Just keep improving the courses, which itu did at Abu Dhabi.

But if you want 8 disciplines there is no way your going to get it established that your format will have 3 run 3 swim and only 1 continuous bike. It's going to have to be equal bike/swim/run legs.

Your the one that is complaining about boredom and then propose as part of your solution to keep the bike the same 1 40k length? And you wonder why I'm suggesting that *might* be a tad boring when all the other disciplines are done many other times.

Look if you want s-r-b-s-r-b-s-r etc, simply make it where you do 2 bikes 2 runs 2 swims. Simple. But don't complain about not enough excitement and then proceed to have your "new" format include 1 hour of the same discipline. That's why I say it needs to be more in line with the number of swim/runs.

Do I like the multi discipline events, yes. Do I think it's much easier and applicable to all star style events like SL that is done what 1-2 times a year....that's the thing.

Itu is on a whole different level of accountability. Whether Gold Coast WTS where millions will tune in to watch or CC in La Paz that no one has ever heard of, the same standard of officiating/support and racing occurs. So I think when you say itu is idiots for not changing you have to keep in mind the water safety ppl that are required to be part of swim when you talk about having 2 or 3 different swim legs all 1hr15'mins apart.

So when it's a very sterile and controlled environment like SL with small field things can go great. When it's an format that you then have to apply across 200 races in every country of the world, where there in lies some push back problems.

So you can say that's grand standing all you want but there are factors you aren't even considering and you are comparing 1 annual events to a international standard.

Your going to think I'm BSing you but when I was talking about previous the current DL S-B-R is easy on the athletes. Who it is even easier on is the race staff. When you have to use water safety personal, right now it's over in 1 go. For olympic distance, in 25 mins the swim is completely shut down. In your format, you are going to have them wait around for 2 swims AND the 2nd swim they are more fatigued after 2 hard runs and 1 hard swim. So I'm not saying it cant be done. WTS level event, no problem at all. But it's why I asked you specifically what ITU events you want your multi S-B-R format to take place at. But I'll ask, have you been to a CC in a "poor" country? The race standards/venue there are well let's just say "different". And I'm not knocking those races, we as a developing sport needs those races. What I'm trying to say is that I dont think ITU would want to put any more hardship on those race officials/volunteers.

So again, it's why I asked, and it goes back to ChrisB's point. ITU isn't just a race organization. It IS the olympic pipeline format, and that encompasses much more than what SL does, or wants to do. SL can pretty much dictate who they want to race, what they race and how they race it. Did you notice they simply shortened the bike to fit the broadcast timing?

So could you have a few one off WTS events that you suggest? I think they could. Could you have the "format" change from current DL S-B-R to DL S-R-S-R-B-R (or whatever multiple format you wanted), not across the board. So I love your format ideas. I think you are barking up the wrong tree to forcing your format on though. I think your format is great for 1-2 event organizations. But the new "standard"....nah I think it has too many varibles at play. And when you are in a controlled environment with multi million dollar investment, works great. When you are in the middle of nowhere in Chad Africa or Columbia racing a CC with people speaking 3 different languages...eh I think you'll have some major concerns.

How many events are in the olympics for nordic skiing. Has the updated race style also translated into new racing format at the Olympics. I know the olympic format is completed controlled by each sport's governing body. So if the sport *changes*, it'll change the olympic format (see what ITU is trying to do by making the olympic race a sprint distance).

yes, on all counts.....

I wonder how financially viable Super League is long term. Everything about this event was of the highest calibre but obviously it's not going to be permanently bankrolled by a Russian billionaire as a loss making venture.

I'll be very interested to see how Birtwhistle goes in the Gold Coast in a few weeks' time, his swim held up really well over this shorter distance whereas he usually lags behind.