Squirt looks great.

But to get the most out of it I think you're going to have to strip your Ultegra chain, assuming you've been using non-wax lubes on it. For wax, I don't think there's any way around the stripping stage (to get the most benefit).

If you don't want to strip a good strategy would be to buy one of the wildly expensive boutique chains then relube with Squirt as needed.

I've just been waxing all of mine. It's easy once you get set up. If you don't like the teflon powder post-treatment, don't use it. Squirt is fine lube and nearly as fast.

It looks like both of those companies are basically doing the Friction Facts treatment. A mix of moly and teflon in plain wax, with a teflon treatment after. But maybe ICE is doing something different with their post-treatment because my waxed chains look clean with nothing on them, nothing like this:

I have used ICED chains. One of my favorite things is that I clean my chain rings before flying out - my cassette is a race day cassette so it is already clean. Since the chain is ICED it has no gunk and picks up no gunk. Anyone that knows me knows I like a clean bike and dealing with greasy hands and a dirty chain is just one less thing to worry about, especially when you have someone that is kind of enough to invite you into their house, the last thing I want is to look like I am a dirty mess. Highly recommend them. My roommate uses a UFO chain, as does a training partner here in town. It seems like a great option as well.

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What chain and lube is that?

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That's an ICED chain in that pic.

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I will say though, the "ice" rubs off quite easily if in touches anything. I have no idea how this affects the ride or claimed watts savings but it took me by surprise .

The ice on the exterior is supposed to rub off, it is the pins and rollers where you want the ice. They tested TJs chain I believe post IMAZ and it tested very well if I recall and that was a rainy day.

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For those that wax chains, which masterlink do you use? I am assuming you re-use it at least a few times.

What are all the materials you need to perform this at home for yourself? I read in a thread somewhere where you (if I recall correctly) laid out all the items needed. I've begun purchasing these for my own personal use and so far I've gotten:

• 2qt Slow Cooker
• 2L Ultrsonic Cleaner
• Simple Green HD
• PTFE Teflon Powder
• Paraffin Wax (Clear)

For some reason I thought there was another item on the list that I'm missing here but I could be wrong.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

ICE Chain - $145 http://rustersports.com/product/icefriction/
Ceramic Speed Chain - $139 http://www.trisports.com/...himano-10-speed.html

I'm still on a 10 speed bike. The Ceramic Speed chain is appealing because of the USAT discount.

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Check this out if you are waxing your own chain. https://moltenspeedwax.com/

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They write it as if you bought their wax though .... I'm looking to make my own MOLTEN WAX, not purchase it. I read that somebody on here had done the same and I thought it was rruff but I could be mistaken. I also think I have found the missing item

MoS2 Powder was the other item in the recipe if memory serves me

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

What is the USAT discount? If you want you can always request a 20% off one from me for Trisports. They expire at the end of 2016 so you have all year to use one. Just pm if ever interested.

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It's the discount code on the back of your USAT card. 15% off

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gulf wax, moly powder and teflon.

I do all my own now... I figure if it lasts 300-400mi between each coat (and I coat a few at a time) it's costing me around $.50 per coating (if you count chemicals to remove everything from the chain between coats... some guys get away with just dropping the used coat back in, but in that case you'll dirty the pot a lot faster so it's probably a wash.) most annoying part is waiting on the slow cooker to heat up. ( I bought a $10 one at Wal-Mart...)

For non-race chains I skip the final coating of teflon as it does make a bit of a mess. Also the first few miles you shouldn't adjust your derailleur (it will shift like crap until the links break free) and you'll throw excess wax for the first ~10mi. Not alot, but a bit.

Your drivetrain will be sparkly though.

I've also used Squirt (before I diy'd) and it is good if a bit nastier than other lubes I've used in the past.

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Like I said, the photo is an ICE chain. Looks a mess if you ask me.

I use the one the chain comes with and keep reusing it til the chain is dead.

Ceramic Speed is 200 miles and ICE is 600 miles. Decisions....

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Any real world data for time savings from these chains versus a regular new chain that is cleaned and lubed?

There is an entire collection of reports showcasing that these method is proven to be more efficient

https://www.friction-facts.com/test-results-overview

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

l should be getting my ICED chain this week! A lot of my teammate used them before we partnered with them with great feedback. I am going to run the same thing as Thomas and use a race only cassette which will keep the lifespan to the upper limit. Even if it only gets half of the claimed 9 watts that is still a good amount for relatively cheap. Well not cheap but worth it I think! My teammate did tell me he took his chain off any time he had to rack his bike over night to keep the moisture off.

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• 2qt Slow Cooker
• 2L Ultrsonic Cleaner
• Simple Green HD
• PTFE Teflon Powder
• Paraffin Wax (Clear)

My setup is $10 1000W hotplate. Much faster than slowcooker, but you need to make sure you don't overheat.
Stainless dog dish. Easy to pop out old wax to scrape dirt off the bottom.
Gulf Wax from Walmart. Think it was $2.20/lb last I bought it.
IR thermometer.
No ultrasonic cleaner. I use the Molton protocol on new chains and don't clean them after that.
No moly or teflon. I figure they will settle to the bottom of the pan with the dirt anyway, and Friction Facts reported very marginal gains from using them.

Wipe chain off with alcohol, take it off the bike and hang it on the dipping wire to dry.
Fire up the hotplate on low.
5 minutes later stick chain in molten wax.
5 minutes later, check that temperature is ~200-220F. Wax melts at ~140F but I like it hotter so the wax will run off easily and leave the chain clean and free of residue.
Pull out the chain and and wipe it off with a folded paper towel, then hang it up to cool.
Dip the quick link in the wax and take it out to cool.
5 minutes later, put the chain back on the bike or store it if you are rotating chains. If you wait too long the chain will be very stiff.
Remove wax bowl from hotplate after it has cooled.

I'm lazy, and this is easy, cheap, and effective. I redo a chain after ~200 miles but I'm sure they'd last longer. Haven't bothered testing it.

BTW, if you can't stand a "dry" sounding chain, then waxing isn't for you.

I don't really believe the ICE claims. I know their watt savings are bogus (comparing to absolute worst case) and in dry conditions most people report getting >500 miles out of a waxed chain before it squeaks.

What do you mean it's bogus? Have you seen data?

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Even if it only gets half of the claimed 9 watts that is still a good amount for relatively cheap.

Compared to plain old wax, you might gain 1W.

I saw that too. But does that take into account chain wear and even a little bit of gunk? I ALWAYS clean/lube my chain before races but am never sure if I am getting it 100% ready. Either way, it'll be a nice piece of mind to have a race only chain, I know I could get a spare, but it won't have the cool ICE on it!

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As I recall these are broken in, thoroughly cleaned, and thoroughly lubed. Velonews also compared used/dirty chains in the first test and I think the wax fared the best in that as well (least degradation).

Here is a newer test: http://www.squirtlube.com/.../VeloNews2014-01.pdf

Ahh ok. I use Rock N Roll based off that chart so I guess I will just have to wait and see! And who knows, maybe I will get some placebo effect on top of any gained watts! Those are just as good.

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I ditched Rock N Roll for Squirt lube

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Molten Speed Wax sells the YNB master links. Each one can be reused 5 times and they work on any chain.

I wax my chains using the Molten Speed wax and then use the wax-based Squirt lube between waxing. Easy, fast, clean and effective. I will never use a petroleum based lube again.

I just ordered another bottle of Squirt lube from Trisports.com. No more grease on my hands or legs!

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I wondered; Good to know- thanks for the info!

Should I just lube my chain with Squirt lube or buy the Ceramic Speed chain? Hrmmm....one is much cheaper than the other.

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Depends on how much your time is worth to you. The difference between Squirted chain and CD in therms of friction isn't huge, but the price is. With Squirt you'll have to degrease the chain yourself and with CS you just put it on.

Thomas,

What is appealing about the ICE chain is the fact it can be re-treated later. Did you like your ICE chain?

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Would be nice to have one less hassle..

Pre last -race i cleaned chain and casette as spotless as I could get them (using unleaded gasoline as that was the best degreaser I could find while at IMSA), then applied Squirt. But after the race the chain feels a bit sticky, almost like it has a thin coating of glue, not sure it is normal? Does teflon help lube effect stay longer?

And at least the claimed lasting effect of 600 miles as opposed to 200 for ceramic

I love my ICE chain and will be running a new one for Wildflower. My old one is on the way back to ICE to be re-coated and tested. I hear good things about the UFO chain as well but I have never used one.

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I ordered the ICE chain today to use at Ironman 70.3 Raleigh!

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I just switched over to Squirt at the recommendation of my LBS and paid them to clean my drivetrain for the conversion. I can't tell if they did a thorough job as it seems like there is a lot of black gunk still on the chain and the pulleys. What should I use to clean it further?

Then they didn't really clean your drivetrain. I'd get some Park Tool degreaser and make them redo it.

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Acetone is the single best option, if you are really lazy you can grab some brake cleaner from the auto parts store which is just acetone in a can. To really remove all lubricants you need a strong organic solvent, acetone is the cheapest and safest option.

I would recommend mineral spirits. To really clean your chain will require removal. See the directions that Moltenspeed wax recommends ahead of waxing a chain. Getting factory grease out of a chain is a challenge.

Just wondering...did anyone tried automatic transmission oil to lube their chain?
It's a little thinner but still oily.

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-shoki

Yeah, it makes me think it would have been cheaper and faster to just buy a new chain for $30...or do new chains have to be cleaned as well prior to a wax based lube?

Any major arguments for using mineral spirits versus acetone? Can I wipe down the chain and pulleys with a soaked rag or does the chain need to be soaked in the solution? The shop told me that they were going to soak the chain in mineral spirits but I'm not sure if they did.

Question for the group- I dont have a race chain / cassette and most of my drivetrain is fairly new (last couple months). Id be interested in exploring these options, but I dont want to do so before my race this weekend. I was planning on de-greasing and lubing the setup in the next day. Would that be the best plan of attack? Is there a lube that is better than another?

Thanks!

Based on my (llimited) experience I would soak it to degrease it. I use parafin as my chain cleaner - cheap, great cleaner, won't corrode stuff if left to soak in it and I figured any residue it leaves wouldn't have a detrimental effect on the parafin based waxes.

I did a new dura ace / xtr chain for my mtb, let it dry and then lubed it with slick. It ran 'clean' immediately.

My tri bike came with campag and the chain was joined so I left it on the bike and cleaned it 'very' thourghly with parafin and then lubed it with slick. It ran dirty after 40 ish miles. That repeated upto about 300 miles when it then started to run cleaner.

It's one of two things - either the factory applied campag lube is very tenacious and the shimano stuff is crap or the soak is by far the best method for cleaning / prepping the chain ...

WD :-)

You need to remove all the lube from a new chain.





Acetone is incredibly flammable and also quickly absorbed into unprotected skin. I would never use it over mineral spirits.




The chain needs to be removed and vigorously shaken, stirred or vibrated within the mineral spirits. Some ues an ultrasonic cleaner. I go through several changes of fluid in the course of a deep clean.




Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

New or old chains both need to be soaked and agitated to get the factory lube out. The Moltenspeedwax site I mentioned above gives you the extreme clean version. Using a plastic jug helps because you can shake the chain around in the solution. They do multiple phases using mineral spirits and finish with denatured alcohol. For Squirt I would recommend at least one round with the mineral spirits. Soaking alone doesn't get everything out of the links.

On the other posters question of factory lube veracity, Friction Facts testing showed that from the factory Shimano chains exhibited the least amount of friction. This might indicate their lube was the lightest. Once factory lubes were removed there was t much difference in chain performance ahead of relube.

Yea i went the wax way, and yes the process the first time to strip the chain is a pain but after that I use the ultrasonic cleaner and have been very happy
I started offering that service locally so people can try it out and it helps pay me a little for the ultrasonic cleaner

let me know if anyone has questions or lives in/around Nashville TN i can show you all the set up or do your chain

chris

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What happens with ICED chain (or Ceramic Speed for that matter) after that 600 (200) miles? Can I still use it if I lube it with Squirt, or do I need a new chain?

ICE Friction chains can still be used as a regular chain.

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Just a quick update on some longevity testing with your method. I decided to see how far my chain would go on its second DIY wax job. I'm using plain paraffin plus finely powdered teflon but not moly at the moment. Today after careful tabulation I'm showing 450 miles and the chain still feels nicely lubed. No squeaks, rust stains or other there signs of loss of lubrication. Rather than continue the experiment any farther I decided to rewax as there was time today to do it without a rush. None of the 450 miles were done in the rain or severely dusty or dirty conditions. So take that into consideration.

YMMV,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Thank you, I knew they'd mention this somewhere...

What do you do with the cassette and the chainrings? Strip off the grease using the Molten Method with Mineral Spirits or straight to the ultrasonic cleaner?

mineral spirits the first time and then cleaner from then on

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Once you're running a paraffined chain the cassette and chain rings stay remarkably clean, So if you clean them up really well as you more to a waxed chain they will stay nice for many hundreds of miles.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

thanks! Was hoping for a different response, but no such luck :-P

yea it is a pain but have been very happy to be honest, just buy new and start from there :)

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Thanks for starting this thread. Lots of nuggets in here. My takeaways:

Waxed chain conversion
~Remove existing chain
~Clean cassette, chainrings and derailleur pulleys with mineral spirits (https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/clean-your-chain)
~Buy and install ICE Friction Chain (http://www.icefriction.com)
~Race and subsequently ride 600 miles
~Lube as needed with Squirt (http://www.squirtlube.com)
~Buy and install second ICE Friction Chain and send old chain back to ICE for re-treatment
~Race, train, rotate

Downsides
~Cleaning drivetrain with mineral spirits is a PITA
~Doesn't work when wet! Someone mentioned pulling the chain when racked overnight. I can't imagine installing a chain race morning. And, what if it rains?
~600 miles isn't much

Did I miss anything? How is it going for you?

Scott

My training chain is lubed with Squirt lube. My ICE Friction racing chain is only used in races. I like how I can send it back to be relubed.

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Makes sense, simple.

What about the drivetrain? Did you give it the Molten treatment when converting to wax?

Scott

All I did was wipe down the pulleys and chain rings before putting my training chain on with Squirt lube.

When it's time to race, I do the same thing and put the ICE chain on. Thus keeps lubes from being cross contaminated

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I have no experience with any of the commercial paraffined chains but I have been running rruff method DIY chains on my own, my wife's and a gals chain who we coach for most of this season. My wife and the gal both did the Muskoka 70.3 where it rained a good bit while the bikes were in transition the evening and night before the race. The chains were fine for the race and ridden several hundred miles afterwards with no problems. No squeaks, no rust just nice smooth action. This past weekend the gal and I did a 90 miler where it rained for a couple of hours and at times torrentially. We had no obvious problems during the ride or in the 150+ miles since.

I'm running 400+ miles between treatments with not lube added in between. Handling the bike is so much cleaner now. Cassette changes, wheel changes no worried about oil on furniture, rugs.......lack of novice marks it's all up side changes.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Thanks, that helps. That leaves the initial cleanup as the only real barrier to entry for me. I've cleaned plenty of cassettes and chain rings. Is the mineral spirits "bath" much different? I have three cassettes to process (trainer wheel, training wheel, race wheel). Or, as Bryan D suggests, perhaps it is just a simple wipe down?

Scott

I sat and did the cassettes while watching TV. I use an old tooth brush and Lestoil as it's a good solvent for the dirty oily mixture you find on a conventionally lubed chain. Rinse off with water then dry everything off well with a rag or paper towels before reassembly. It takes me about 5 minutes each even while following a TV show. Just be careful where you're working as the brush bristles will fling the dirty wash product off in the direction you're brushing. In my case I do this down in the bottom of a sink. I've run the cleaned cassettes more than 1500 miles so far without any need for additional cleaning. They stay sooooooo nice with a waxed chain.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

you know I was thinking a little more and research, next time I plan to just use a rag with mineral sprits on it and then just use a brush to get the wax on......

i think that might help you out

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I ended up doing the full Molten method to clean the drive train, incl. taking the pulleys out and putting them in a few mineral spirit baths. I couldn't see much residue in the second bath for new chains and cassettes, but I did the old chain and cassette I had on the Kickr (0 miles outdoors) and the dirt just kept coming. Makes me think that the process of cleaning and relubing is more important than the actual lube used (ie pure Paraffin, Squirt, Paraffin + PTFE + MoS2, Molten).

I have decided to use simple Paraffin and do what the guy from Friction facts did for the Velonews test (ie. Hot wax bath in the ultrasonic cleaner for 10 minutes), maybe do this twice or each chain. Doing this with Squirt would be quite expensive and i can't find the teflon and mos2 powder in the uk. I think by using the ultrasonic cleaner, you might get more wax inside the chain links compared to the crock pot (plus it takes less time). Top up with Squirt after some time.

I will put a bin bag around the drive train overnight when checking in the day before a race.

Thoughts on Preimier's Optimized Chain as an alternative to the ICE Friction Chain?

http://www.premierholding.org/...ucts/optimized-chain

Advantages seem to include the Wipperman Chain and connex link, CAVSF process to smooth the surface of the chain, and a more versatile coating.

Scott

While I do not know about skin permeability vs acetone (but I think most petroleum-based solvents are readily absorbed via the skin, that said, I do not doubt your assertion), isn't it super crazy that acetone is the main solvent in fingernail polish and fingernail polish remover ?!

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I like the ice friction chains. Inquire about team discounts. Ability to send in for re-icing and solid customer support.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=4198


There's some interesting data in there, like this:

Just did my first chain wax job. Even after "breaking" the links and articulating a bit they are pretty damn stiff. I assume they will loosen up significantly after a few minutes of riding?

Yes they should loosen up. Things may be stiffer with a new chain too. I have all the road, tri and fatbike chains in the house converted to wax. My recollection was that the chains sure seemed stiffer for the first few chains I waxed. Now they don't seem to be as stiff at the start. So must be chain break in and wear.

I did follower another poster's advice for a few rounds and mounted the chain after waxing and allowing it to partially cool. It may be completely subjective, but the wax retention didn't seem as complete as it did when allowing to completely cool before mounting.

They'll loosen up. Just go for a 30 min spin and you'll be good.

I sure hope you guys are right. I just installed the chain on an otherwise extremely clean and smooth drivetrain. It has massive drag and sounds like absolute shit. I pedaled it by hand for a few mint and it didn't improve much. I've got a 90min trainer ride lined up tomorrow so we'll see.

I was planning on installing a new KMC chain and dial in the etap system today and reading through this thread and thinking about a whole new drivetrain and how filthy it would be in just a matter of a few winter rides with the standard chain lube changed my mind.

I decided to order the Connex chain from Premier Bike and use that at first and then use the KMC chain that I bought to learn how to treat it at home with paraffin and use it as a backup.

I ordered the Premier chain about 4 weeks ago...still waiting. I don't plan on using it until I race in a couple of months so it's not that big of a deal but just be aware that the service hasn't been what I would call quick.

All our first batch of Optimized Chains went out back in late December. I was a little surprised at how many orders we got. Our second batch went out yesterday and we are now shipping from inventory.

No more orders on file so you should have received shipping notice on your order. If you did not get a shipping notice please contact me so I can make sure your order was processed.

We got one order this morning - but that is the only order that has not shipped.

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Nice overview, Thanks for gathering info.

Never waxed my chains, but this thread got me thinking of trying it.

Anyone ever think or try Nordic ski wax (fluorinated or similar)? The Nordic skiers have been dealing with wax for decades, and wondering if cyclists can R&D it (Ripoff and Duplicate).



https://www.fontanasports.com/...ntent=All%20Products

Mine is in the mail! Looking forward to adding the chain swap to my pathetic arsenal of wrench skills, and then giving my Optimized race chain a go at spring time trials.

Scott

Ceramic Speed released this update today

http://www.ceramicspeed.com/...ew-improved-formula/

https://www.bikerumor.com/...ains-last-2x-longer/

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how does that compare to the YNB SLA210? in both longevity and friction? I did not mention in silly prices cuz that is not the metric being sought :)

No idea. I bought an ICE Friction chain and it works great.

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Has anyone tried the UFO as well as the ICE Friction? While it would be impossible to tell watt savings between the two without machine testing, what were your thoughts on the differences. I would think there was some procedural difference since Ceramic Speed's product is good for 350 miles and Ice Friction is almost twice that. Could you visibly see a difference??

I like Ice Friction and the fact it lasts double the miles of Ceramic Speed. Why would you buy a Ceramic Speed chain that cannot be recoated? I just mail my chain back to ICE and he re-coats it.

Ceramic Speed is not worth it.

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