If you are really only getting 4 hrs of sleep, stop training for an ironman. With that little amount of sleep you will die a young person.

Plus you can't be that much fun to be around.......walking around like a zombie.

You need to stop training. You cannot live on 4hrs of sleep let alone train.

Could not agree more about the what other responders said. Stop posting and go to bed!

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

This is either a not very subtle humble brag .... "look at me, I can do an IM on only 4 hours sleep.", you're insane or plain stupid. I hate to even think about the damage you're doing to yourself. Find a different hobby which is more compatible with your life.

I agree stop training for an IM. 4hrs of sleep is not healthy. I get 7-8hrs a sleep and I still don't think this is enough. Maybe focus on sprint or Oly races. You can get a good workout in 1-1.5hrs and you will feel so much better with the extra sleep.

Ideally target 56 hours per week. A lot of my guys have been able to do IM's on around 50 hours per week. Most of the guys who only get 42-45 get sick a lot, have poor quality workouts and underperform to their abilities. I am sure they also have a tough time getting things done efficiently at work because they are constantly a bit sleep deprived and functioning on too much caffeine. Consider cutting out caffeine for a few weeks to see what is really going on with your body. Your sleep quality will also be superior. When I go to Europe for work, that week ends up being a 45 hour week of sleep vs more like 56 at home. I get through the week and run workouts while there, but by the weekend when I return home I am feeling depressed and workouts suck into early the following week. As you can imagine there is a time lag of several days between lack of sleep and physical performance. You tend to need several days of 'catch up' for the brain and organs to start working in a more optimal range again.

28 hours of sleep is insane. I had one person do a 33 hour week of sleep twice and she basically imploded after that. It was too much. It was after that incident that I started asking for sleep totals in the weekly log to get a window into what "recovering" was going on outside of training, because pretty well everyone lies about how much recovery then get during the day in between workouts and says they are ready to go....the only true recovery is sleep. Even rest days end up being bogus, because people end up gardening for 10 hours or re doing their roof, or helping friends move or other fairly physical things that they defer during training.

I beg to differ. This may be true for most people but there are plenty outliers.
I lived quite happily for most of my life on 3-4hrs sleep per night. This was from the age of around 13-14 until I was in my late 20s/early 30s. In the last 8-10 years my requirements seem to have increased gradually and now I live on about 5.5-6hrs a night, and could possibly do with a little more but I function perfectly normally. I wasn't depriving myself of sleep, I just didn't need it.
If you do feel the need for 8hrs sleep and you're trying to get by on 4hrs then I'd agree that sleep is more important than Ironman training!

Training for triathlon per se is a combination of formal training (swimming, cycling and running), but also nutrition, strength and sleep are key.

It is during sleep that your body recovers and all the adaptations from training occur. Don't neglect sleep, as it will hinder your adaptation process. All the training you do will be useless without proper recovery.

I usually get btw 7-8 hours of sleep, and feel like I need more on some days, I would probably die on 4 hours.

---

Love the Pain!

Quito-Ecuador

What he said. Get some sleep. I do not care who you are, but no human can function/heal on 4 hours weather you think you can or not. You will eventually get anxiety, depression, health issues. Trust me.

I don't believe this is strictly true.
Most can't, but some can.
I did for over 15 years with no ill effects.
However, if you need it, don't deprive yourself of it.
P.S. I was not an athlete for most of that period. If I was it probably would have added a little to my requirements.

I thought I was an outlier and could survive and train for an IM distance with only 4 hours sleep a night and I was sadly mistaken. All my life I could go on 4 hours of sleep through many, many years of schooling and it worked, but I wasn't training for an IM.

For several months I was training at 5am and then again at 10-11pm due to family obligations and work schedule. One morning I woke up to my wife telling me I was having a grand mal seizure. I have no history of epilepsy or seizures. I dislocated both shoulders. I had a series of EEG's , sleep studies, CTs and seeing specialists in nuerology that all came up negative for epilepsy or why I had a seizure. The conclusion was lack of sleep and stress and my brain freaked out and had to "reboot". Also a few nights of drinking before my seizure didn't help since alcohol decreases quality of sleep.

I haven't swam since my seizure due to dangers associated with it not to mention a torn labrum. I now stick to running and biking. I get all of my workouts done in the morning so I can sleep at night. I now get 7 hours sleep a night and triathlons are out of the picture unless I get shoulder surgery.

So..........sleep IS important!

I actually don't take any caffeine to be honest. Only when I long drive then I drink coffee but I have been working nights for 8 years and I cannot recall taking any caffeine to stay awake at work.

Maybe I'm missing a little information but I do take naps here an there. 30mins before work and another hour during work. So if you tally it all up it'll be 5.5hrs but the main sleep is 4hrs long.

The problem is not getting more sleep. I don't wake up purposely so I can train. The problem is I can not go back to sleep when I'm up. I could lie in bed for another 4hours and not go back to sleep.

I'm sure there are doctors /firefighters etc etc out there that are on shifts! I bet they have more hectic schedule than mine and still be able to train.

When I'm up I'm up. My wife's never complained of me being a zombie. She's complained more on me reading on triathlon magazines than being a zombie. I still play with my 3 year old go to the park etc etc.

Past 2 seasons averaged 4-5 with the occasional 6. Season 1 did 2 IMs with the second one a struggle both mentally and physically. Managed to go 10 hours in both. Second season was a struggle and ended with stress fx to second metatarsal, no IM. This season was a planned break from IM with focus on SC. Be very careful as you may be traveling down a road which may prove difficult to get out of. My sleep habits are just starting to return to a normal 6-7 hours, partly because work situation has changed for the better

Im as amazed at people who can operate on little sleep as I am those who are pro-level fast. I need 7-8 hours a night. When I start to dip lower then that, it catches up to me. The longer I dip in to that 'sleep debt' the longer it takes me to recover from it. When I was training for IM, I would get 7 hours a night, and one night a week I would get a good, solid 11 hours. That seemed to keep me in check.

I can't imagine what living on 4 hours would be like. I guess if you're used to it, more power to you... but I would imagine you're taking years off your life by taxing your body so much. IM training takes a lot out of you. 4 hours isn't sleep, that's just a long nap ;).

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

My last 2 season I slept 5.5-6.5 5 days a week and 7.5-9 2 nights a week and managed pretty well. Went 9:38 & 9:40 on 2 challenging slow courses. Training volume was around 17-22 hours per week, 3 out of 4 weeks.

I laugh a little when I hear people that get 8-9 hours of sleep 7 days a week. While I was unemployed for a time, I leveled out at 7.5 hours when allowed unlimited sleep. So when I hear of people that sleep 8-9 hours every night, based on my own experience, I can only conclude they don't fall asleep quickly or drift in and out of quality sleep easily. OR, they don't have downtime in the evening prior to going to bed. I know my wife can sleep 9-10 hours every night if allowed, but she takes over an hour to completely fall asleep sometimes and is NOT a morning person at all.

But it depends a lot on the individual. I fall asleep very quickly and wake up very quickly, so I'm getting to quality sleep pretty quick I think. I'm also a morning person and often beat my alarm one in a sustainable routine.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Good advice Dev. I trained for IMCOZ in 2013 averaging right about 5hrs per night for 7 months. I thought I was being considerate of my family by training after they went to bed and then before they woke up. I made it through the training, but got very sick before the race and ended up a DNF. I had the fitness for a superb race (sub 10), but my health didn't hold up. I ended up on and off sick for the next year, and as crazy as it sounds, I still don't think I'm fully recovered 2 years later. I haven't raced since.

Point being, it can be done in the short term but there will be long term consequences. Maybe if you're in your early 20s its feasible. I was able to get by with little sleep as young lieutenant in the Army in my early 20s, but even then I knew I needed sleep to be at my best. I'd recommend the OP rethink his approach.

---

-Andrew

As I get older I get and require less sleep. 4 is bit short for me but 5 is pretty normal and I rarely get more than 6. Some times I'll wake up stressing about work and either go to work at 3:00 or get on the trainer. I figure putting insomnia to use by doing something is better than just staring at the dark ceiling. Some people need more sleep than others.

As Warren Zevon sang, I'll sleep when I'm dead.

Like many others I couldn't fathom training on that amount of sleep, and my understanding is that most results of most studies would put you in the unhealthy amount of sleep category.

That said, if you're waking up naturally and feeling alert after 4 hours sleep then that is very different to having to set up 5 alarms in different parts of the house to have you wake up after 4 hours sleep (or waking up after 4 hours panicking about paying bills for that matter). If you're worried and have the resources see a professional. If you don't have the resources then perhaps try to spend 4-6 weeks attempting to get 7-8 hours of bed rest and see if you notice any difference.

It depends on the reason's for the lower than usual volume of sleep!
It's not a feat of endurance or willpower if you simply don't feel the need for it.
When I used to sleep very little it wasn't that I was depriving myself in order to use that time to do other things. So living on 4 hours sleep for some people is probably the same as living on 8 hours is for you. No imagination required.
The only thing I can remember that might not be familiar to regular 8hr sleepers is spending several hours alone most nights when everyone else was asleep. When I was younger I read books in bed, as a teenager I'd either read, watch TV on headphones or indulge in other quiet hobbies. As an adult, it makes no huge difference. My evenings are just longer than yours.

As a kid I'd go to bed at a normal time but wouldn't feel tired so I'd read until maybe 3am (unknown to my parents). I'd wake up nice and early the next morning feeling refreshed and alert and generally didn't need an alarm clock. I don't believe I was sleep deprived. Regarding the suggestion I'm taking years off my life. I don't know of any conclusive studies to demonstrate that except in the case of insomnia/sleep deprivation which I don't think apply to me. It could be true but there's not much I can do about it. And there was a suggestion by someone else that low volume of sleep would make one susceptible to illness and general ill health. Well that's certainly not true in my case. I get sick less than anyone I know. In the last 15 years I can only remember 4 times I missed work due to anything health related. One was a back injury, one was a tooth ache, one was food poisoning and one was tonsillitis. I can't imagine lack of sleep could influence any of those except the tonsillitis. I generally just don't get ill aside from the very occasional mild cold or sore throat. So in my case at least, my health does not appear to be overly stressed as a result of limited sleep. IIRC sleep deprivation is one of many things that impact the immune system, but I don't think my limited sleep periods constituted sleep deprivation.....I may be wrong!

To be clear - I'm certainly NOT suggesting anyone should limit their sleep and everything will be fine. I try and get what I need. I just don't seem to need that much and used to need even less.
If you're struggling to live on 4 hrs of sleep - Get more sleep! I certainly wouldn't try and do without in order to make time for training.

While this may or may not apply to the OP's scenario, one thing everyone needs to take into consideration here is that one of the earliest signs of overtraining is inability to sleep through the night. Sure everyone has a night where you wake up at 3am and just can't get back to sleep. However if that is becoming a regular occurrence you should have a look at your training volume and ask yourself seriously if you need to back out for a bit.

If you are getting only 4hrs of sleep a night and it isn't for lack of trying, it might be time to see someone about it.

I get 6 if I'm lucky. Just trained for and completed IMLT in September.

i'm with you. i average pretty low hours 5.5 a night during weekdays. my key to success (if you call 10:29 success) is to get key sleep blocks when it counts.

sat nights after my big brick workouts i try to get 8 hours of sleep. melatonin helps keep me out. even if i wakeup. i'll stay in bed, stretch. just let me body rest.. i do the same sunday. i get to bed ealier.

some people just operate on less sleep. just be sure you're resting the rest of your body enough. try improving your room hygiene. get rid of the tv. reduce clutter etc. some of that stuff limits your ability to stay asleep. (dark curtains etc will help too)

john

i am 46. soon to be 47. i sleep 5 consecutive hours every night. when i hit that 5 hour mark, i wake up feeling alert and ready to rock. if i went to bed at 10, then it really sucks. i have no idea where this came from. when i was a teenager, i would sleep thru multiple alarms, racking up 10 or 12 hours of sleep. but whatever, life is what it is.

performance-wise, i like to work out when i wake up. that means a lot of runs or trainer time at 0430 or 0500. and i do ok, for me, a consistent MOPer. BUT, every once in a while, i get to work out in the early afternoon. daylight, fresh air, fully caffinated ... :-). those workouts are much better. more power, more speed, etc. so, get the sleep you can get. schedule your workouts appropriately.

I have a crazy work schedule with variable shifts, but I still manage to sleep.

I will wake up to train if it's something scheduled, like a swim class.

It only works for mer because I'm a good sleeper (I can nap, I fall asleep quickly when tired, I sleep deeply, and can get up when my alarm goes off), and I have a supportive wife that doesn't bother me when I go to bed (and no kids).

Left to my own devices I sleep 8 hours +/-, but I can go a day or two only getting 4-6 hours, and if I'm coming off a big training day and didn't get to sleep the night before I can go 10 hours straight.

My first IM was on about 4 hours a night with most long rides indoors. Was Wisconsin in the rain in 06, went 10:52 I think. A few years later my body completely shut down. Sleep is sooo important.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

   I too, get minimal sleep as well. Its just how I've always been. Life will not allow more! I'll get between 4 and 5 hours (if I'm lucky) due to a new baby, kids, and work. I've always been a 5hr a night sleeper though. I've just always functioned on 5 hrs. Once every other week or so, if training catches up with me, I'll get more, if I can. I'll train 20-22 hrs in season, and go 10hr in IM distance. I find that really utilizing the taper is the most important part. That, and not letting your immune system drop.
I work early. Thats how I start my day. I always assumed others were not getting a full 8 as well! Others who get up at 4am and go for a swim, and THEN go to work, THEN get a run or ride in later in the day or whatever they do, are they now going to bed at 8pm every night?!? My 9 year old doesn't even go to bed at 8pm! Am I supposed to cash out before my child does every night?!? I guess for non-parents its easier? My grandpa used to say "its the highlander in us." (I'm Scottish) Back in the day, you'd sleep lightly, and only a few hours a night, otherwise you'd get your horse stolen in the middle of the night or something... Worked for William Wallace, right?!?! I guess some are just wired differently than others! That said... I imagine if I got more sleep, I'd see better results!!!

Best of luck to ya!


-Edit.... Rereading the TITLE of the thread... I get 5 hrs of sleep a night... If it starts shifting to 4 hrs... Then I REALLY feel it. Its a fine line. And for me, anything less than 5hrs I start feeling right away!

For all the "under 5 hours of sleep crowd", be aware the sleep apnea could very well be the cause of your problems, especially if you're not feeling as perky in workouts as you did when you were younger.

I used to sleep 8 hrs a day until age 18, and then it gradually worsened to 7,6,5, then in my 30s, I rarely slept more than 4 continuous hours in a time. I'd still be tired but I had to wake up, do something else for about 60 mins before going back to sleep or trying (and usually failing) to go back to sleep again.

I happen to be a very high energy person at baseline, so my 'tired' = 'normal' for most people, so I didn't assume it was so abnormal despite the overall dragging feelings. Then a kid came along and I assumed the kid was messing up my sleep cycle, but it remained totally messed up after the kid started sleeping. I was functioning well at work, but always felt like I could fall asleep quickly if I closed my eyes, and my hard workouts were deteriorating more and more.

It got really bad after age 35 to the point I ended up getting a sleep study. Turns out that I have severe sleep apnea with onset in deep REM sleep. Like 70 wakeups an hour according to the somnogram. I don't fit the risk profile at all - not overweight, no thick neck, in shape, not known to be a big snorer. But the tests were unequivocal - the doctor showed me graph after graph documenting it since I couldn't believe it. I was waking up after 4 hours because that's when big REM kicks in, and then since I'm not breathing enough, my body refuses to let me sleep until I 'reset' my REM. Even with drugs like ambien or others, I'll just get more fatigued and sleepy-feeling, but my body will not let me sleep with breathing rates that low.

I ended up getting a CPAP machine. It has significantly improved things, but is far from normal. The main thing is that now when I hit the REM sleep (after 4-5 hours, which is when the apnea kicks in and why my body would keep me awake after 4-5 hrs), I can crank up the CPAP settings, and magically, I can usually go back to sleep, albeit fitfully, for 7-8 total hours. After that, I actually feel pretty normal, and not fatigued, adn workouts are MUCH better.

So if you feel like your sleep is deteriorating, consider getting a sleep apnea study. It's made a big improvement in my life - turns out it's probably genetic in my case as my entire family has the same 'no sleep after REM' pattern, but I'm the only one who has gotten it back to near-normal with a CPAP machine.

Not being an athlete is key to being able to do that. I know people who work, then play video games all night, and get 4 hours of sleep and they probably have more energy than I do. They also are not destroying their bodies training. Sleep = healing.