I vote Jet 9 PT rear. I have a Jet 6/9 PT setup with wheel cover on my P3. I prefer using the same wheels everyday and only put the disc cover on for a race. Also prefer the look over training wheels. Crank power is better if you plan on switching wheels

Here is my P3:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8549112295_5583643d2f_z.jpg

Not to be too technical, but unless you plan to make some money off your bike split, this is not an investment.

In fact, if this equipment "helps" it is likely to be an "anti-investment." Your bike split improves- you qualify for more remote, more expensive races- you "invest" in even more expensive equipmement.
It is like a wealth destroying death ray.

Fortunately, most equipment does not work that well.

Garmin Vector?

In the true meaning of the word you are correct. I could buy something that will earn me money. Sports equipment does not earn me money. But I still see it as an investment - the pay off is just not monetary - it is enjoyment. I like looking at graphs and improving - that is worth money to me.

I'd do this if they sold it in a shimano form

Get a Quarq, sell the road frame with the janky pressfit BB, buy one with a BSA BB.

Both power meters will work just fine. The reason I like my quarq over my PT is it gives me more rear wheel options for racing as well as allowing me to keep my race wheels race ready. No need to swap tires or tubes for the rear wheel when moving from training to racing. Those are just minor issues though. The quarq does have a minor issue in that it takes a tool and a few minutes to swap between bikes, but I'll take that any day over swapping tires, tubes, and disc covers.

Faced with this same situation, I went the other direction--BB30 power meter with a BSA30 bottom bracket for my threaded frame. It's worked out great, and it's as future-proof as you can get. The crank will work on any frame, and you won't be using any adapters.

I'm biased towards Powertap, and would lean that way for sure. If you are in Madison, they're right here to stop in for advice or issues. I'd be a bit patient and try, compare and see what comes up in the coming months. The power business has been really changing and I have a feeling that something new could break soon....

No offense, but I've been hearing that for 15 years now. Every time someone waits for "something to come along", they just end up getting mad... There are plenty of good options out there right now. Making an accurate, precise and reliable power meter isn't cheap, and I don't see waiting a few months really changing anything.

Not sure what you're saying......you mean the last 15 years haven't meant any progress????? The last year alone has yielded crazy action that has brought power meters down to anyone's level as far as cost and accuracy. I just think the competition and new developments have really caused incredible growth by each pushing the others. I feel some interesting new things are about to pop....just IMO.

Stages and power2max did do a good job of pushing powertap prices down a bit. So there is that.

There isn't much anything new on the market that makes for a substantively better powermeter...maybe active temp compensation on the quarqs? Is that working out well?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

invest in a SRM, you will not be disappointed.

This new deal from Powertap is awesome:

Fact: Our G3 Hub alone retails at $789. For $10 more you can get a set of sturdy, power-infused alloy wheels. At that price, we're practically giving these hoops away. http://www.powertap.com/...ertap-alloy-wheelset

Power has gotten so much more affordable, and bulletproof. But like I said, I think new things are on the verge.

Prices are coming down, but I wouldn't say at a fast enough rate where it's worth it to keep waiting. Power meters do not bring instantaneous gains. It takes time to develop unlike other things we spend money on such as fast tires, latex tubes, race wheels, skin suits, or aero helmets which are effective right out of the box.

If you offered me a FREE power meter 2 years from now, with the stipulation that I couldn't use a power meter until then...I'd turn that offer down.

Oh, I completely agree about getting one soon. I did not mean to infer 2 years....just a few months. There are many indoor tools right now to do the power work indoors, from TrainerRoad, indoor training centers to CycleOps Virtual training, so one can get the training in. For me the real massive gain is racing long distance with one. Courses like IMWI are broken down much more easily with the feedback from the PM. The competition has really brought down the investment, and I believe that will continue. It's a great time to be in the market for power.....

There hasn't been much improvement in accuracy over the past decade. Indeed the trend has been to sacrifice accuracy for less important "features".

I didn't know you could do that - this seems like the best solution!

I am in Madison now, and have been for years, but I am moving to Nashville on Monday.

Sure, there's been "progress". There are more options available and all--but 15 years ago it cost about $700.00 to get an accurate, reliable power meter: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/...002/reviews/powertap

That hasn't really changed all that much. Yes, the power meters are now wireless and there are other features, but the retail pricing on the least expensive power meter that is accurate, precise and reliable is about $800. That's about the same as it was 15 years ago. Meanwhile, during that entire time I keep hearing how the next big thing is right around the corner and is going to dramatically change pricing... I'm also seen countless people on the interwebs talk about how they're going to wait, only to end up frustrated.

Yes, there have been price changes among products during that 15 years and some recent gradual downward pressure, but frankly nothing has been all that dramatic--despite the fact that this has been promised literally dozens of times. So really, if one is in the market for power, I don't see much advantage in holding off and waiting for the next big thing.

Madisonguy
FWIW - since Quarq is on your list Competitive Cyclist (Backcountry.com is the same) has a decent price on Quarq at the moment, but their selection is running out so they may not have the crank length or BB version that you want. I have a Quarq Cinqo on my TT bike and it has served me well and should be getting Quarq Elsa GXP 110BCD today that I ordered from Competitive Cyclist on Wednesday (2nd day shipping free). They also have a pretty good return policy as well.

I would have easily picked the P2Max, but in this case the sale price put the Elsa a little cheaper for me. I like the battery cover being on the front and can be changed quickly during a ride if needed. The only Quarq that has temperature compensation is the Quarq RS from what I can tell and it was out of what I wanted to spend at this moment. With my Cinqo the bike is exposed while driving to my training courses and if the day heats up I will either rezero the head unit while stopped at a traffic stop or use the back pedal method. I usually don't too hung up on the temperature drift.

First of all a power meter is not an investment. Go look at the folks selling SRMs at 30% of what they paid on ebay. It's an expensive toy that will help you ride faster.

Now that you are cool with that, I would recommend getting a sram riken or red quarq and running gxp bottom brackets (preferably threaded). The combo is pretty much bombproof, realtively inexpensive, and child's play to swap out.

Swapping cassettes is a pain in the ass so I wouldn't go the rear hub option. I did and now I'm converting my 10sp road bike into a 11 speed so I can easily interchange the Powertap wheel between bikes. If I were to do it again I'd get a Stages because it's a simple swap unless you like to complicate things like me. my bikes don't have the same crank arm length which is why this option is out to pasture for me. I also wouldn't buy a fancy new bike and then take the advantages a BB30 spindle gives you and convert them to GXP. 24mm vs 30mm is a marginal gain for power transfer IMO.

If I had to do it all again I'd go Vector S and switch my spare pedals to Look Keo's rather than the Dura-ace ones I have on both bikes now.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I might take my rear hed 60 and have a PT hub built into it then get a disc cover. You'd be in for <$1k and have training and racing covered.

Or you could sell your 60 and buy a 60 with it already built in

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Actually with a powertap swapping cassettes is really easy. Takes 2 seconds. This also makes disc cover installs a snap.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Actually all of the new Quarq chassis-only models (Elsa R, Riken R, Elsa RS, XX1) have the active temp. compensation. Quarq customer support confirmed this when I called inquiring about their upgrade program.

Quote:

Actually all of the new Quarq chassis-only models (Elsa R,
Riken R, Elsa RS, XX1) have the active temp. compensation. Quarq customer
support confirmed this when I called inquiring about their upgrade program.

That is good news!!

I won't disagree on the disc covers but I hate swapping cassettes. More than anything it's the whole process of getting the toolbox, grabbing the tools, finding a cassette etc. But I suspect that due to living in a smaller condo in a major city space is the main culprit. If I had a dedicated room to my cycling gear this would become a non-issue. So +1 to you I'm allowed to disagree with myself aren't I?

LOL

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

No you aren't listening!
With a powertap hub you don't need tools to swap a cassette.
Just buy extra freehub bodies, they pop off. Takes 2 seconds, literally.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

You are a genius!! I never even thought of that! Jack Mott for Prez!

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

More great info for anyone searching.....

https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=2&theater

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I just listened to Allen Lim's 3-min. advertisement for PowerTap and here are a things I don't quite agree with:

1) Hub is the most accurate place to measure power - he says that you don't have any chainring weirdness to futz around with when you're measuring at the hub, but neglects to mention that measuring downstream of the drivetrain introduces drivetrain losses, which are highly variable. If I take a PT wheel and use it on multiple bikes and get different power readings - is it because I'm actually outputting more/less power or are the drivetrain losses different on each bike, or both?

Not saying that measuring at the crank spider is foolproof or better, just saying that measuring at the hub also has its own issues and isn't any better or worse.

2) Auto-zero when coasting - he's wrong when he says that PT is the only power meter that auto zero's when you coast. SRM and Power2Max allow the same (with SRM you can turn off auto zero on/off). Quarq allows you to auto zero by backpedaling a number of times.

Regarding #1 - he neglects to mention that drivetrain efficiency confounds the data if you want to know leg power. On the other hand if you are field testing, he is right on, you want to know only the power at the wheel. Assuming you have no broken bearings and a lubed, clean chain on both bikes, the differences due to drivetrain should be on the order of 1 watt max. Either way, if you use a power tap, keep your chain clean and lubed. Should do that anyway =)

Regarding #2 - the crank based meters that can do this either do it poorly (coasting with the SRM and auto zero usually is a bad idea) and obviously having to backpedal is quite less convenient than just getting a free auto zero at every stoplight.

On the other hand the auto zero doesn't do you any good in something like a hill climb TT, or non technical ironman courses where you don't coast for hours.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I agree that PowerTap is good enough for field testing (I have a PT G3 disc hub on one of my bikes). I'm just saying that Allen Lim is stretching things a bit when he claims that the hub measurement of power is much more accurate than crank-based measurement. Yes it's more accurate if what you're measuring is power to the wheel. But most of us just want to know how much power we're putting to the pedals; measuring power to the wheel is good enough to determine that.

I'm guessing if Allen Lim instead said "I like PowerTap because it's accurate enough, a lot cheaper than the competitors, and I can use it for training and slap on a disc cover for races" it wouldn't make much of a compelling advertisement. =)

About the auto zero - no one has really done any studies to determine if the PT auto zero is a good idea or a bad idea. SRM PowerControl lets you see the live zero-offset without actually resetting the ZO; that's how Alex Simmons was able to find evidence that SRM auto zero was giving him erroneous results. But to my knowledge the only way to check the PT ZO is to reset the ZO first. It's a moot point anyway (whether PT auto zero is good/bad) because there's no way to turn it on/off.

My bigger beef with PT is that there is no way to change the PT slope. You can do a static torque test to determine if it's off, but to actually change it you'll have to ship it back to PT. This is also an issue with Power2Max.

hmmm, that's sorta the list of reasons I bought one.....

"PowerTap - measure BOTH of your legs for around the same price as Stages. And we're almost as easy to swap between bikes. Oh - and you can use your carbon crank arms too."

Sorry to keep harping on this, but I disagree. The SRM autozero seems to work pretty well in my experience--better than leaving it off and not manually zeroing the device when it sees changing temperatures. Have you actually investigated this yourself?

IMO the power closet to the wheel matters most to me. That's the last place it's possible to measure as it's moving you forward. That's the only thing that matters.....how fast one is going forward.

As to credentials, I would say it's pretty hard to argue with Alan Lim's. Perhaps there are some who may equal here on ST, but not that I know of....

I disagree. I have a velocity sensor to measure how fast I'm going. I consider power a measure of physiological output, having as little to do with my equipment as possible.

+1.

Speed sensors do a fine job of measuring how fast you are going.

I suggest checking PT torque readings when hub is tethered to different cogs. I think then you might reconsider.

What do credentials have to do with evidence of accuracy?

Is this the same physiologist who apparently couldn't spot a major doper in his squad?

When it comes to power measurement, there are many people I would pay far more attention to than Lim.


Just so it's clear, I think Powertap make a fine power meter.

Money aside, which is the best power meter, for quality power measures?

You used to be able to disable auto zero with the LYC cervo computer. This was specifically so it could be used in a fixed gear conversion. If there is no means to disable auto zero on a Powertap fixed gear set up, you're screwed.

The PT auto zero is a good idea, but it won't really help a unit suffering from excessive torque zero drift or with freehub problems. Suggest occasionally manually checking the torque zero behaviour.

The best way to deal with torque zero drift is to use a design that is less susceptible to it in the first place.

SRM Science

do most pros use SRM? i guess that would help validate that answer. pro triathletes and tour de france riders?

A used wired SRM w/ a PCIV.

Oh wait, you said "money aside"...so NOS (if you could fine one!) would be even better.

The speed recording with that was a little odd, though.

What pros use for equipment is never an indication of what pros think is best. Pros usually use equipment dictated by sponsorship deals.

Further, what pros think is best, isn't always best. It isn't even usually best.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

E.g., Team Sky and Stages.

As long as you have a computer that's not running Windows 8, I totally agree...

SRM has long been the de facto power meter used by professionals for two decades. It's only recently that you can find different powermeters on pro bikes.

True, although sometimes it is very interesting to see what "sponsor incorrect" pieces of equipment pros use. Like when Garmin-Sharp rode the Tour de France with empty Vector pedal pods and SRM power meters (SRM logos were blacked out using a Sharpie). I've also heard of stories of pro cyclists (e.g. Sammy Sanchez) who spend their own money to buy SRMs. Each rider on AG2R buys their own SRM out of their own pocket (AG2R has no power meter sponsor and their team budget is tiny).

For the cobbled classics, check out how many teams sponsored by Continental, Schwalbe, etc. are actually running FMB tubulars with the FMB logo blacked out. FMB doesn't sponsor any teams, so any team / rider that uses them is paying out of their own pocket.