Good on ya Gary. But do not let a dickhead damper the aloha. BTW I ate enough cake at the slowtwitch gathering to carry you, Carla and Jodi through the day on Saturday. Billy Rudell, Mark Ray of C'Dale and Herbert were quite the hosts.

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dr

the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.

when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you're in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what's 5 more.

john

Just curious...what was his argument?

jaretj

he said the prize monies was shit

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http://RoadID.com/...te/4HC4V-TAFQ9XPJDTX

Some people can put a negative spin on anything.

Personally I think the entries to the regular lottery should be something like $1000 and then you pay your Kona entry and you have to do at least 3 half IM's in 2 years before you show up in Kona. I like the legacy program, as it gives the entry to Kona to life long athletes. You don't get to 12 finishes just through pure dumb luck. The pure dumb luck guys should have to do more to validate their entry....heck, Pete Jacobs and Crowie have to validate and the lottery guys just walk in. There is something wrong with that. Sure it can be for everyman, but everyman should have to drop a bit of sweat and coin first...pretty well everyone else who qualifies has to go through a lot of sweat and drop significant $$$ (including pros) to get there. I don't see why the lottery guys get a free pass. I really like the Legacy Program. Personally I qualified for Kona on my 12th IM and Kona was my 13th, but if the program existed back then, I would have gladly done 2 IM's in the last two of those years to pop myself over the threshold. As it stood, it took me 15 years to get to number 12 and I failed to qualify over that time frame until number 12.

Personally I thank Messick for the program even though I never got to take advantage. There are many guys who are not within 1-4 hours of KQ for whom this is a lifestyle and the Legacy program is a path to Kailua Pier. Well done WTC...keep it up....and I would encourage WTC to drop it to 10, not twelve. 10 has a greater "Magic number" ring to it than 12.

Dev

27x IM finisher :-) (you can say it is lifestyle for me).

I don't know about dropping more coin, but definitely more sweat. Prove that you can finish. I like the idea of 10 for Legacy, though.

I will never qualify for Kona. I also don't think I have it in me to do 12 (or even 10) IM's. I do however think I could finish Kona (in a solid 16:59:59). It gives people like me a chance at the big race that I otherwise would never have and therefore gives me hope and more importantly keeps me in the sport (and if I do do 10 while waiting for the lottery shot, so be it). To even do 1 IM you have to sweat and put money into it if you want to finish. I don't think anyone who finishes Kona got a free pass unless it is literally their first triathlon, and even then if they finish why begrudge them?

According to the Ironman site, those who gain entry via the lottery have to validate as well.

Q. If I am selected through the general IRONMAN Lottery, what do I do and how do I validate my entry?

Athletes who are selected through the IRONMAN Lottery must complete a branded IRONMAN or IRONMAN 70.3 event within one year of the 2015 IRONMAN World Championship to validate their Lottery slot. Lottery winners must complete a validating race by August 31, 2015, with all validating information submitted to Lottery@ironman.com by August 31, 2015. Failure to comply will result in the forfeiture of the Lottery slot.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...s.aspx#ixzz3FemmHeIB

He wanted to be able to roll his entry from another Ironman to Kona once he got his Legacy slot. He went on and on about it and Messick was gracious and just listened. I was behind them thinking "Dude, you're in Kona, STFU and be thankful."

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

I agree. Like most brilliant business decisions it's a win for the company and the customer.

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

OK, I understand.

Thanks

jaretj

Agreed, it is a great program. At IMWI, a buddy of mine was in line next to a guy who had done all the North American IM races this year and was planning on doing them all. He wanted to get to his 12 races by next year so he could get in on the legacy program.

My legs hurt just thinking about that.....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

My bank account hurts.

I agree that this was brilliant long-term marketing on WTC's part. I think it will be interesting to see over time, as more people approach their 10th-12th IM, if the magic number starts to actually go up - the limited number of slots available for the legacy program combined with an increased demand might mean that once you hit 12, you're still not guaranteed to get in, and folks may need to do 14-15 to "guarantee" their legacy spot.

Additionally, making a bit of an assumption here, once you've qualified for a legacy slot, the number isn't reset, is it? If those legacy qualifiers want to, once they've gone once, they're just adding to their total and increasing the number. If 50 people qualified with 12 IM events and do Kona this year, they now have 13, which would improve their chances for next year. If 20 of those love the idea of an annual trip to Hawaii and decide they want to do it again, that's essentially 20 fewer slots available for those people working towards number 12.

Using you as an example, Dev, with your 27 IMs, if you didn't qualify for Kona, it's hard to believe you couldn't just grab a legacy slot and now go back every year. Very few people can catch you, and you could essentially hold a Kona slot for the rest of your life. If more people do that, the number 12 won't mean anything anymore, unless WTC increases the number of legacy slots, which holds further implications.

On another note, as a Toughman ambassador and a general fan of the underdog, non-"brand name" triathlon events, I'm not crazy about how the Legacy program takes away from those who want to do long course events with other brands. To me, that helps the WTC, but doesn't necessarily help the sport as a whole. But, that's exactly why it's brilliant marketing. I'm kind of surprised they haven't implemented it for the 70.3 series.

ETA: When using you as an example, Dev, I didn't mean to make it sound like you're some sort of bad guy - you've obviously earned your place, and have earned the ability to utilize the Legacy program. I was just trying to point out a loophole in the system. Sorry if that didn't come off well. :)

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

I would like the Lottery guys to drop as much coin as a normal qualifier (it not more....certainly they don't deserve to drop less). A normal qualifier has to pay for his qualifier IM and the Kona entry fee. Let's not forget that the normal qualifier has to pay for hotels and travel to the first race...I don't see any good reason why WTC should not change the lottery guys as much or more than the general outlay of a normal qualifier. More money for WTC for sure....heck they could roll it back into the pro prize purse :-). I just solved TheRealStarky's 7th place IMLP prize money beef :-)

legacy doesn't work that way:

Q. What are the eligibility requirements for the 2015 IRONMAN Legacy Program?
To enroll athletes must meet all four of the following requirements*:
1. Athlete must have completed a minimum of twelve (12) full-distance IRONMAN-branded** races (includes existing and past events) by December 31, 2014.
2. Athlete has never participated in the IRONMAN World Championship in Kailua-Kona, Hawai’i.
3. Athlete must have completed at least one full-distance IRONMAN event in 2013 and 2014.
4. Athlete must be registered for a full-distance IRONMAN event in 2015.
*Legacy athletes will be required to submit their information during online registration.
**2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike, 26.2-mile run
Q. If I am selected and compete in the IRONMAN World Championship, am I eligible to reapply for the IRONMAN Legacy Program in future years?
No, once you have competed in the IRONMAN World Championship, you are no longer eligible to enroll in the IRONMAN Legacy Program.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...y.aspx#ixzz3Ff2YbDwl

(but thanks for the question because I was wondering myself...)

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

the legacy programis only open to Kona first timers and can only be used once. if you have raced Kona by any means you are no longer eligible fot a legacy slot.

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

OK, thank you for clarifying that, Kathy!

That does negate most of my argument, so I stand corrected. I could still see the "magic number" going up as more people hit 12 and create increased demand for those slots.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Once you get to 12 and get a legacy spot, you can never apply again (even if you get to 24). Also if you did less than 12, started kona as a qualifier and then get to 12 you can't apply to legacy. It is only for people who never started in Kona and rightfully so. I actually have a friend who qualified for Kona in 2006, broke his pelvis in crash in Kona 4 days before the race and never started. He checked that as long as you never started and completed, you can still apply to legacy

Dev

Once you use Legacy its done. Its for one trip only. Cant keep using it.

Thank you, Gary - Kathy pointed that out as well, so I stand corrected. That makes perfect sense to me.

By the way, have you mentioned that you're racing in Kona in 2014? I'm getting a kick out of your signature line. :)

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Thanks for the clarification. The specifics about actually starting in Kona are also fair. Makes sense.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

As a beneficiary of the regular lottery I agree with you to some extent about how it should be run. I don't agree with the $1,000 price tag you suggest but do think even lottery winners should at least have completed an IM before being able to do Kona. If I were king I'd make it so that you have to complete an IM before ever being able to join the lottery but that's just my feeling.

Before I hit the regular lottery my plan all along was to eventually take advantage of the legacy lottery. I got to 7 IM's before getting my lottery spot though.

This just made me laugh. This person has done at least 12 IMs (is that still the legacy number?) and THAT is what he has to complain about when he finally gets in the face of Messick? Seriously?

That is complete BS, so the IRONMAN World Champ has to validate his/her slot by completing a 'branded IRONMAN event' yet someone who has never even toed the line at an IM can get in throgh a lottery and validate their slot through a 'branded IRONMAN70.3'? What a f'ing joke. Make the validation rules the same across the board, either let the World champ validate with a 70.3 or make the lottery winners validate with a IM. Same goes for the sponsor/celeberty slots.

 
I agree that this was brilliant long-term marketing on WTC's part. I think it will be interesting to see over time, as more people approach their 10th-12th IM, if the magic number starts to actually go up - the limited number of slots available for the legacy program combined with an increased demand might mean that once you hit 12, you're still not guaranteed to get in, and folks may need to do 14-15 to "guarantee" their legacy spot.

This is correct. It is more like a wait list-once you hit 12 finishes you are on the "list" You must continue to do one full distance per year until its your turn. I had 12 finishes last year-did not get selected-was told that I needed to finish one in 2014 to go in 15. Currently its about 2 years or 13 finishes. As more people validate it will be closer to 14- 15 finishes to get to the big show.

Is it really a joke? You don't learn you won the lottery until some time in February if I remember. How many races for the coming year are still open? For the pros they can get in, try to enter an IM in February as an age grouper. Your choices are pretty limited. Doing more than one IM in a year is not an easy feat. If you won the lottery for a year and a half out sure, or if you made it so you had to have completed an IM prior to entering the lottery ok. But it just isn't feasible to expect lottery winners to find an IM to get into for that year.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Why this?

I see your point but...

When I did Kona (roll-down slot), I ran for a little while with a gal who was there doing it via lottery. She and her husband had been at a New Year's eve party with a friend of theirs who was a Triathlete, and he was telling them about Kona and the lottery, and they got a little tipsy and went home and entered the lottery and she got in. She did not even own a bike, let alone, have participated in any kind of triathlon ever. I would assume she is by far an anomaly though. The reason all of her lottery story came up is because she came up to me and asked if she could run with me but wasn't sure if it was against the drafting rules.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

It's the best part.
WTC gets everyone who wants in the legacy program to sign up for a validation IM. If you don't get in, you have to another validation IM to apply the following year, and the next year.... until you get in. As more people apply for the legacy program and it becomes tougher to gain entry through it, I wonder how many IM's people will reach before they get accepted?

That's the kicker of the program. Even if you get the "12" if you don't get selected you need to keep entering IMs to stay in the lottery legacy program. When they first announced the legacy program I don't think there were all that many people with 12+ ironman that hadn't done Kona. Relatively speaking that is. Now that they've announced it many people are looking for that magics number. Wait till they get 12 and don't get it then realize they need to do 13, 14, 15....

At least this is how I understand it to work.

The real joke is that you can win a spot to the world championships via a lottery

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Oh stop with this drivel. It's always been this way and hardly takes away from the championship aspect to the event. And btw the host Olympic country gets to enter athletes in every event as well as the host country of the World Cup.

The main issue I have is making the 'World Champ' validate his/her slot, it's really lame and my guess is part of the reason for that is WTC wants to be able to promote the race(s) where the World Champ is racing to draw sponsors, spectators, etc.

To deal with the issue you mention, I'm fairly certain WTC could find space for the 100 lottery winners in any race they put on (sold out or not). The lottery dates would probably need to change for that to work though.

I'm all for the lottery and I think it's great but the whole validation process is a bit screwed up, it should be the same across the board for everyone who has to validate (I don't care if that means finishing a sprint or finishing an IM).

Yeah that is a pretty petty thing to ruin everyone else's day with.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Why is it petty?

Seems like his issue is not with the Legacy Program, but the TRANSFER program.

I can understand why they do not generally allow transfers into Kona since it is a qualifying event, and I don't know how many IMs the person had signed up for, but sounds like they had 1 or more prior to getting their legacy spot, and given how expensive Kona is, especially if one of their IMs was late like IMMT, or Arizona, they may not want to do both.

I think it is perfectly reasonable that an athlete should be able to transfer a race entry they only have to their Kona slot if they are qualified, especially since for a lot of AGers, especially those who have to qualify through the legacy, recovery time needed may be an issue.

Does anyone on here know a Legacy qualifer (ex. 12 races) that did not get a Kona legacy spot this year?

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John Behme
Charlotte, NC

Tailgunner revealed further up in this thread that they did not get a spot this year.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Dev, do you really think WTC's wallet would even notice if they increased the pro purse? I don't. Aren't purses usually put up by sponsors, anyways?

The lottery is a lottery. Why should you have to drop more coin? You're already gambling with whatever the cost of the lottery ticket is. I'm guessing most don't make it the first time. I don't think WTC refunds the lottery money if you don't make it (I think Norseman does). I never plan to do the lottery (personal reasons), but it's part of Ironman. I do, however, think the lottery is extraordinarily cheap, but whatever. :) If a person wants to attempt Kona without ever having participated in an Ironman, so be it...just don't complain that the swim it too hard or the bike is too long. :P

Crap, I missed that last paragraph in that post. Thanks for pointing it out.

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John Behme
Charlotte, NC

It wouldn't be a petty thing to write a strongly worded letter about, or chat with Messick about later, or rant on twitter about.

It is petty to get up in that particular situation and make everyone else feel awkward though.

This will be a hard thing for some IronMe people to understand.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

It's not so much petty as that it completely misses the point of what WTC is trying to do...make money! The reality is that under the legacy program WTC gets not 12, but 14 IM entry fees out of you. That's the 12 to enter the legacy program + 1 signed up for the next year + Kona if you get it. If you don't get picked up then you better complete that one you signed up for (to stay eligible) then sign up for another the next year. But it's a business, and if the individual didn't like it they shouldn't have entered the legacy lottery. Bottomline: the minimum number of IM entry fees WTC gets out of Legacy qualifiers is 14 if picked up the first time and 14 + 1 more for every year thereafter (and no misses) until selected.

And here's another example. IM Louisville 2015 is the same weekend as Kona. If you qualify for Kona 2015 and are already entered in IMLOU, you cannot transfer your Louisville entry fee to Kona (or put it towards it since Kona costs more). And you can't get your entry fee back if you purchased the insurance since it's not a qualifying condition. Those conditions are made explicitly clear when you sign up so noone should complain if they subsequently KQ. WTC is a business and that's how they roll.

WOW, just wow... some people... he's in KONA for goodness sake!!!!

i think you should have to complete 1 full distance ironman before you can enter the lottery vs being able to validate afterwards.

i've done 4 140.6 and i'm signed up for 2 more next year. maybe i'm just jealous that folks get in without the effort i've attempted.

then again, i'm not sure i could go as a lottery. i would feel as if i was cheating. qualification is choice 1, legacy is choice 2.

john

Has anyone that has raced Kona and also done 12+ tried to get in yet? I'll never qualify again with the sport getting so hard but I'd love to go back... but it's the #2 rule. I can hope and wish that they change that! A "once through the Legacy program" rule would be nice.

I know people who are ramming through 2 a year to get in.. currently they are around 8 finishes I think. They in for a surprise in a couple of years...

IM Kona might not even exist by the time they get selected.

I am one of those people. The email I got from WTC:



Dear Thomas,
I just tried calling you, but could not connect through the extensions. I just wanted to follow up and thank you again for your continued loyalty to our sport and of IRONMAN. I continue to be inspired by the devotion and determination displayed by our athletes. The IRONMAN Legacy program was designed with athletes like yourself in mind. We want to reward those who have made such a commitment to IRONMAN throughout the years with a promise to race at the IRONMAN World Championship. Although you were not selected this year, I can guarantee you a slot to the 2015 IRONMAN World Championship in Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i if you simply keep up the good work! Below are the specifications you must complete to remain eligible to win a Legacy slot:
1) Complete your IRONMAN race in 2014 2) Register for an IRONMAN race in 2015 (calendar year, not qualifying year) 3) Apply for the IRONMAN Legacy Program again in 2015
If you complete these three steps, you will be a guaranteed selection to the 2015 Legacy program and will have the opportunity to race in Kona! We will be sending you a link to complete priority registration at the beginning of October for the IRONMAN Legacy Program. If you do not receive the email by October 12th, please reach out to us. We will send it to this email address. If you email should change before now and then, please let us know!
Best of luck and safe training!

April Dickerson Manager, Athlete Services World Triathlon Corporation

Yep. After results were posted for legacy/lottery in April, I got an email a week later saying sorry about 2014, you are in for 2015 if you maintain your eligibility-finish your 2014 race-which was tahoe, perfect right? Glad I had AZ as a backup...

I don't care if his arguement was valid or not, it was the completely inappropriate setting to have that discussion. All of us Legacy athletes were being honored. Dave Scott, Mark Allen, PNF, & Greg Welch spoke as did Messsick. Then they all stuck around so we could individually meet them. My man took that oppertunity, to complain about a program he voluntarily participated in and greatly benefitted from. Andrew gave the dude his email address and promised he would consider his idea, but still this guy persisted. It got very awkward for those of us within ear shot. Not cool.
/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

Some people can put a negative spin on anything.

True. Take a big enough group of people and you will have a suv group that will not be happy with something.

I have stood there and listened to athletes complaining to RD's about the flavour of gels at aid stations. Or a few years ago, how about this - when working as the Race Announcer, at a triathlon we changed the format slightly for the draw prizes during the award ceremony. A guy came up to me and nearly ripped my head off over this - storming off in a fit of rage. Yes, over the chance to win some free stuff. I could go on and on.


I've always though the Legacy program was a good one. Kudos to the WTC for getting it going and keeping it going.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The genesis of the program was a dinner at Ironman Germany. The European races - especially Frankfurt - are so fast and so competitive, many of these folks who wanted to do Kona faced the prospect of having to travel far abroad to try to get a slot, because getting a slot at Frankfurt is almost impossible. So this was a way for those folks to be able to continue to support their home race and also have a real chance to get to Kona simply through a reward for their loyalty to Ironman.

Smart business move? Sure. I think rewarding your most loyal customers is always a pretty good strategy...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

So legacy program participants will do 2 IM's in the same year? I know there are plenty of people that do more than 1 in a year but by the time I get to 12 or whatever the magic numbers is, I don't think i'll be able to physically do 2 in a year.

That is BS.

Messick is paid a TON of money, and he also takes full advantage to shill the brand when he can. He is in a public place, he is accessible and he should be accountable.

Letters go unread, or read by secretaries. Twitter rants often are bashed for being cowardly and someone hiding behind a screen.

There is a lot to be said for talking to someone face to face, looking in their eyes and also gauging whether they are full of #$%^& or not.

And alot of people paid big money to go there. Why should this dude mess up the experience that other people wanted to enjoy just so he could complain about something that was completely voluntary for him?

yes I do. he hit 12 last year. applied for legacy but did not get it.

he signed up for and completed another IM this year and is very sure he will get accepted as a legacy for next year. he is signed up for another full for next year just in case.

I think the magic number is definitely 12-13 right now, and not higher.

And he paid big money too.

There could be a lot more to the story.. or maybe not. Maybe he spent months sending emails and calls unreturned, or maybe he got there, heard something smug and it just flipped him off.

He was there. Messick was there. He had something to say and all the more power to him

I would not be surprised if Messick has been ducking him for months

He paid to be there, he has just as much right as any.

There in lies the rub. He paid the money knowing the conditions. But the issue here is venue not necessarily his complaints. But honestly if he didnt like the conditions he didnt need to sign up for it, I scratch my head at people who voluntarily do things and then complain about them.

The point that is made is this was the wrong place wrong time to air his grievances and he had no regard for everyone else he was just concerned with his opinion being heard. Thats the rub.

I wouldnt be surprised if he was being ducked as well. Just from the sound of it, this guy is not satisfied till he gets his way. Having dealt with people like that, when they dont take the answer the first 10 times why continue to have the conversation. But of course this is all supposition since we have no idea if or how many times this guy had tried to make any contact before this or if he is just a loon who jumped on an opportunity and had no mental filter.


Sure he has rights but his rights end when they infringe on the rights of the other guests.

Signature line has been updated.

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

No- if you get your legacy slot for a specific year, you do NOT have to complete the other IM race you are registered for in that same year. You just need to be registered for another IM race to meet the Legacy requirements - probably insurance in case you don't get a legacy slot in that specific year and need to keep your consecutive races going to be considered for the following year. I got a Legacy slot for 2013 and didn't end up doing the other IM race i was registered for in June.

lottery...definition...a process or thing whose success or outcome is governed by chance.

Win the lottery then validate. Pretty simple.

When can I sign up for Legacy? I see the lottery sign-up is open, but I can't see how I can register for Legacy.

It's open now:

http://www.ironman.com/...s.aspx#axzz3fnp7qwgo

Thanks Thom!

wait wait.. legacy has to be consecutive?

i did imlp in 2011

imwi and imcoz in 2013

immd next year

thinking imuk and immt in 2016.

so instead of being 6 i'm actually at 3 after 2016?

john

I have not heard anything about a need for them to be consecutive.

you're a long way off with your 6 IMs
Consecutive in this case mean for the consecutive years 2013 & 2014 and be entered for an IM in 2015..... so you basically need to be a current IM participant

Q. What are the eligibility requirements for the 2015 IRONMAN Legacy Program?
To enroll athletes must meet all four of the following requirements*:
1. Athlete must have completed a minimum of twelve (12) full-distance IRONMAN-branded** races (includes existing and past events) by December 31, 2014.
2. Athlete has never participated in the IRONMAN World Championship in Kailua-Kona, Hawai’i.
3. Athlete must have completed at least one full-distance IRONMAN event in 2013 and 2014.
4. Athlete must be registered for a full-distance IRONMAN event in 2015.
*Legacy athletes will be required to submit their information during online registration.
**2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike, 26.2-mile run
Q. If I am selected and compete in the IRONMAN World Championship, am I eligible to reapply for the IRONMAN Legacy Program in future years?
No, once you have competed in the IRONMAN World Championship, you are no longer eligible to enroll in the IRONMAN Legacy Program.

OHHHH.

in that case i'm not worried. when i get closer to 12 i'll do them in consecutive years.

i think i'm likely to qualify before i hit 12 ironmans. i've pr'ed each IM i've done by an hour. at this rate i'll be sub 10 next year and sub 9 the year after ;-)