Aero experts...please help...

Apr 14, 14 13:55

Post #1 of 27 (8628 views)

I'm in the process of setting up my bike and need some assistance in hydration ideas. I am trying to find a workable solution, while not losing too much aero. I have tried my best to like the Speedfill A2, but can't seem to configure it to work for me.
Other options are: Horizontal bottle, but don't really want the PIA to remove and drink, so most likely will not hydrate enough.

Torhans 30 front, but some concern with comments of spilling, and also is it working against my front end too much being where it is? (yes, I will take the bag off ;-)

Another option would be a Torpedo from X-lab? Thoughts?

Then I move to carrying flat kit. I have 3 choices, small bag under saddle, or Bonty aero bottle cutout on down tube..

or Torhans cutout on down tube, which looks cool, but is it creating havoc?

This would be the Torhans package....is it efficient?

I also will likely use 1 bottle behind saddle, close and low. Thanks in advance, and help me out!

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 14:10

Post #2 of 27 (8598 views)

The guys at ERO have found that adding a torhans 30 to a bike with a bayonet styled head tube (yours) is very advantageous.

Generally, adding an aero bottle to the seat/downtube adds a small amount of drag. The behind the saddle, seat bag works pretty well.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 14:15

Post #3 of 27 (8584 views)

The last option is what I would go with. You really want to get the Tohans bottle in the front as close to the headtube as possible. The Torhans frame bottle looks like a very good fit.

If you look at the drag chart on the torhans site it was done using the bike you have. Their bottle performed better than as BTA mounted standard bottle. We saw at AeroCamp that it was faster on the Bayonet style bikes.

Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Re: Aero experts...please help... [Nick_Barkley] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 14:19

Post #4 of 27 (8572 views)

Thanks very much Nick! I appreciate the thoughts.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 14:20

Post #5 of 27 (8569 views)

Thanks Heath! I've been scouring for info, but know some of you who post here are great resources. I appreciate the help.

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 15:07

Post #6 of 27 (8483 views)

From everything I've read, the consensus seems to be that the most aerodynamic option for hydration is a horizontally mounted bottle. That's what I've been doing for a couple years now and I love it. I don't think it's hard at all the get to the bottle. In fact, I find it easier to access than a downtube mounted bottle. If you've never tried it then you should definitely give it a shot.

Zach McCormick
Catalyst Cycling
http://www.catalyst.bike

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 15:34

Post #7 of 27 (8442 views)

If you can get a Torhans Aero 30 (or Aero 20) close to your headtube, there's nothing else better aerodynamically. It's quite shocking how well that thing works. Based on the pic, though, I would go with a BTA bottle; bury it in your arms. Get one with a straw, like the Xlab Torpedo, to make it easier to drink. The VR bottle seems to work well for everything we've tested it on, so use it as a storage compartment if you're not using it for hydration.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: Aero experts...please help... [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 15:40

Post #8 of 27 (8427 views)

Thanks Jim. I REALLY appreciate your expertise. Unfortunately, with the aero bar setup that's pretty much as close as I can get. I'd love to use it, but the extensions have a cross piece that doesn't allow me to creep it much closer. Tried the A2 and it didn't work, so you think the Torpedo is the best choice? Also, since I wouldn't use it for hydration, the VR is better than not having it, and I should put flat kit inside? Think a single bottle on back with x-lab or other makes it better?

It's so nice of all of you to share your knowledge. I appreciate!

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 15:59

Post #9 of 27 (8389 views)

Gary, what about a DSW bento behind your stem? Could use that for spare kit or nutrition

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:01

Post #10 of 27 (8381 views)

A thought. I wasn't sure which would work better. I thought perhaps the VR helped more than hurt....

ericM40-44 wrote:

Gary, what about a DSW bento behind your stem? Could use that for spare kit or nutrition

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Re: Aero experts...please help... [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

BrentwoodTriGuy

Apr 14, 14 16:03

Post #11 of 27 (8371 views)

Jim -- in your experience is it safer to use an aero bottle on the frame or a zip tied bottle behind the saddle?

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:07

Post #12 of 27 (8357 views)

My recommendation would be a DSW bento and a hacked up P4 bottle vs. the Torhans for a flat kit near your BB.

Edit: do you have a down tube mount? use the Torhans on the downtube w/ profile extender thingy to get it snug in your BB

Muck around with the Torhans 30 mounting system... there are ways to get it lower and closer to the HT

ggeiger wrote:

A thought. I wasn't sure which would work better. I thought perhaps the VR helped more than hurt....

ericM40-44 wrote:

Gary, what about a DSW bento behind your stem? Could use that for spare kit or nutrition

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Last edited by: ericM40-44: Apr 14, 14 16:10

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:15

Post #13 of 27 (8335 views)

ericM40-44 wrote:

Gary, what about a DSW bento behind your stem? Could use that for spare kit or nutrition

Yep, great choice!

Single bottle behind the seat as tight to the seat as you can get it.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: Aero experts...please help... [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:19

Post #14 of 27 (8324 views)

Thanks! So, Torhans 30 front mounted as close as possible. DSW bento for flat, no VR, and 1 bottle tight against saddle pointed back....

or....VR on down tube tight as possible to BB.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:30

Post #15 of 27 (8305 views)

Little tip about the Torhans bottle- put a piece of electrical tape over the rubber lid and tape it to the bottle. You can then push the rubber lid over to the side, refill the bottle, and not have to worry about it falling off. I've done that at a few races now and it works well. I've had a few of those lids pop off during races, too, so it'll prevent you from losing it.

To keep it from splashing, make sure you use both the inner seal thing and the rubber lid.

I'm starting to like mine more, after a year of not being thrilled with it. It isn't 100% refined in my opinion, but it definitely works well enough.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [fartleker] [ In reply to ]

BrentwoodTriGuy

Apr 14, 14 16:40

Post #16 of 27 (8285 views)

fartleker wrote:

I'm starting to like mine more, after a year of not being thrilled with it. It isn't 100% refined in my opinion, but it definitely works well enough.

I love it for flat courses... it does exactly what you need it to do and you don't have to fuss with laying the straw down (like x-labs). I parted with mine because I see myself drinking more when not having to refill the bottle and only being able to drink when aero.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:43

Post #17 of 27 (8282 views)

To get the Torhans 30 lower flip the arms up so that the bracket actually sits under the aerobars. When looking from the front the black would be shaped like a U.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 16:54

Post #18 of 27 (8263 views)

You could try your own, which allows you to customize everything to your specific bike. Here are two variations I've used for a between-the-arms setup. The first has a bottle cage zip-tied to the aero bars, the second has the bottle directly attached to the aerobars using velcro strips. In both cases, I simply drilled a hole for the straw and bought flexible tubing for the straw itself (plain tubing you can get at home depot, or replacement tubing made for hydration packs). You can also rig it to hold the straw down out of the wind, as I've shown, by buying little straw clips that are made for Camelbaks.

Last edited by: CSU_Prof: Apr 14, 14 17:03

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 17:54

Post #19 of 27 (8174 views)

You are thinking about this right and your guesses are as good as anybody elses as to what will be fastest.

One thing might consider, are to read over the sealant articles in the main slowtwitch news page. Latex tubes and a good sealant might be enough protection to let you go without any spare kit at all, simplifying your choice. New tires with no cuts + carefully installed latex tubes + sealant = not much chance of a flat.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 18:04

Post #20 of 27 (8153 views)

Just out of interest, what didn't you like about the A2? I have one, and have to admit the straw drives me a bit nuts, no easy way to secure it out of the way.....

Re: Aero experts...please help... [fartleker] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 18:37

Post #21 of 27 (8114 views)

Thanks for the tips. I'll use the tip and flip over the mounting bracket. CSU-prof, I did make something similar to yours, but would prefer something that I could fill on the fly. fartlekker, brentwood, JToland, and Jackmott, thanks so much for the tips. All good ideas. I was thinking that perhaps the add ons would add some aero effects to the frame, as I see a number of photos lately with VR bottles, that really don't seem to be used. They do make great fairings.

Re: Aero experts...please help... [gibson00] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 18:39

Post #22 of 27 (8110 views)

I couldn't seem to get the bottle situated on my aerobats so I could access the straw and drink. Tried both directions for a cage and for the bottle, and it wasn't working, as the straw would have had to be really long. I have a used one for sale in case anyone's looking for a cheap one.

gibson00 wrote:

Just out of interest, what didn't you like about the A2? I have one, and have to admit the straw drives me a bit nuts, no easy way to secure it out of the way.....

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Apr 14, 14 20:39

Post #23 of 27 (8001 views)

I had a good experience at Ironman Whistler with the Xlab torpedo bottle. The straw tucks out of the way.

I packed concentrated skratch labs into a gel bottle and took only water on course, one per aid station, squirted the concentrate into it, and I was good to go.

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Re: Aero experts...please help... [rhet0ric] [ In reply to ]

Apr 15, 14 8:21

Post #24 of 27 (7804 views)

Thanks for the ideas....

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Re: Aero experts...please help... [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 14 14:51

Post #25 of 27 (7359 views)

So you guys are saying it's better to get it lower and expose more of it underneath vs getting it higher and hiding it with your arms just so you can get it closer to the HT? I was just playing around with this this weekend.

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