Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [radelj44] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 0:06

Post #76 of 208 (6114 views)

radelj44 wrote:

link5485 wrote:

Should they have offered races that already sold out? Most of them are crowded enough as it is.

1) I think the credit is bogus... they should offer refunds to those who don't want to do an Olympic
2) If they are going to do the credit; it should apply to ALL WTC EVENTS (excluding Kona and Vegas obviously).
3) To the people who think they are doing the best they can... FUCK THAT. I can come up with 100 different options for the athletes who don't want to compete but WTC is not going to even darken that door because they fear of losing money... which they wouldn't.

I find it curious that you think WTC should offer refunds to everyone that wants one, but somehow don't expect they would lose money by doing so.

It's not like WTC's expenses on this race are going to decrease because the length is shortened. The t-shirts, gatorade, timing chips, expo hall, etc etc are already paid for.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [ktj] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 0:25

Post #77 of 208 (6103 views)

The real reason they shortened it was not because of the heat but because they have a bunch of left over Muncie sprint caps from last year.

Yes this really is the cap they gave me.

Last edited by: ktj: Jul 7, 12 0:28

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 0:44

Post #78 of 208 (6086 views)

Ultra-tri-guy wrote:

Here is my prediction on what will happen at the Muncie race....

Due to the shortening of the event a great many of the "participants" will now fancy themselves as "racers" because of the shorter distance.They will change their race strategy from a conservative, even paced Half Iron effort to an all out Olympic Distance at close to their top end race pace...They will unload one water bottle(or more) from their bikes and take less from the aid stations provided because of the change of "race plan"....They will come off the bike feeling okay because they have had the benefit of more help due to a crowded course and lesser distance and then will try to start the run at a pace far faster than they had planned (and probrably trained for)..As a result,on the run, there will be far more casualites due to the rapid spike in temps that their body will feel because they have pushed themselves harder than they would have in the 70.3 .Some fools will say that this proves they made the right decision to shorten the race when I believe that the decision to shorten the race will,in fact cause more heat related problems.... Heat is only a problem if you pace yourself incorrectly,this is a recipie for disaster.

Anyone want to make a bet?

----

yup

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 0:59

Post #79 of 208 (6081 views)

Ultra-tri-guy wrote:

Here is my prediction on what will happen at the Muncie race....

Due to the shortening of the event a great many of the "participants" will now fancy themselves as "racers" because of the shorter distance.They will change their race strategy from a conservative, even paced Half Iron effort to an all out Olympic Distance at close to their top end race pace...They will unload one water bottle(or more) from their bikes and take less from the aid stations provided because of the change of "race plan"....They will come off the bike feeling okay because they have had the benefit of more help due to a crowded course and lesser distance and then will try to start the run at a pace far faster than they had planned (and probrably trained for)..As a result,on the run, there will be far more casualites due to the rapid spike in temps that their body will feel because they have pushed themselves harder than they would have in the 70.3 .Some fools will say that this proves they made the right decision to shorten the race when I believe that the decision to shorten the race will,in fact cause more heat related problems.... Heat is only a problem if you pace yourself incorrectly,this is a recipie for disaster.

Anyone want to make a bet?

----

That's funny because I'm doing exactly that.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Hearsedriver] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 1:15

Post #80 of 208 (6071 views)

Really just beyond understanding. Does anyone on this tread give a damn about anyone else but themselves?

Let's do this by the numbers; 1995, 300 out of 900 athletes are getting an IV and 7 spend the night in the hospital after a 100 degree day leaves carnage. Another 100 volunteer are in need of medical attention. I raced the event. This event boosts one of the most best medical directors in the USA and he is a triathlete. So afrer 32 years you have some darn smart folks operating this event.

2012: 1800 athletes and 1200 volunteers equals maybe 600-800 medicals. It just is not possible to take care of that many people. Period. The water yesterday was over 90d. USA Swimming will not allow an OWS event over 85!

Professionally the right call. The event could have just been cancelled. And Lord knows we have had our share of disagreements with the Tampa folks but in this case; they got it right!

STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [teacherman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 4:22

Post #81 of 208 (5992 views)

I would imagine that this change is designed to protect volunteers as much as or more than participants. DavidK

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [DavidK] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 4:33

Post #82 of 208 (5981 views)

http://www.thestarpress.com/...man-heat?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage%20DontMiss

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [teacherman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 5:38

Post #83 of 208 (5943 views)

Is there athlete tracking available?

Found it: http://ironman.com/...r=2012#axzz1zwJdv8L3

Last edited by: matto: Jul 7, 12 5:38

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [teacherman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 5:42

Post #84 of 208 (5936 views)

teacherman wrote:

Sitting at the athlete briefing and that is the first thing they said.... I thought this was IRONMAN?

You mean, you thought this was HALF IRONMAN.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [davearm] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 5:42

Post #85 of 208 (5942 views)

davearm wrote:

radelj44 wrote:

link5485 wrote:

Should they have offered races that already sold out? Most of them are crowded enough as it is.

1) I think the credit is bogus... they should offer refunds to those who don't want to do an Olympic
2) If they are going to do the credit; it should apply to ALL WTC EVENTS (excluding Kona and Vegas obviously).
3) To the people who think they are doing the best they can... FUCK THAT. I can come up with 100 different options for the athletes who don't want to compete but WTC is not going to even darken that door because they fear of losing money... which they wouldn't.

I find it curious that you think WTC should offer refunds to everyone that wants one, but somehow don't expect they would lose money by doing so.

It's not like WTC's expenses on this race are going to decrease because the length is shortened. The t-shirts, gatorade, timing chips, expo hall, etc etc are already paid for.

+1

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 5:57

Post #86 of 208 (5918 views)

Nice to see there are rational and non emotional responses in this thread.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 6:11

Post #87 of 208 (5895 views)

h2ofun wrote:

davearm wrote:

radelj44 wrote:

link5485 wrote:

Should they have offered races that already sold out? Most of them are crowded enough as it is.

1) I think the credit is bogus... they should offer refunds to those who don't want to do an Olympic
2) If they are going to do the credit; it should apply to ALL WTC EVENTS (excluding Kona and Vegas obviously).
3) To the people who think they are doing the best they can... FUCK THAT. I can come up with 100 different options for the athletes who don't want to compete but WTC is not going to even darken that door because they fear of losing money... which they wouldn't.

I find it curious that you think WTC should offer refunds to everyone that wants one, but somehow don't expect they would lose money by doing so.

It's not like WTC's expenses on this race are going to decrease because the length is shortened. The t-shirts, gatorade, timing chips, expo hall, etc etc are already paid for.

+1

So WTC gets their money no matter what and only the athletes assume the financial risk?

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 6:29

Post #88 of 208 (5862 views)

Stindiana wrote:

Really just beyond understanding. Does anyone on this tread give a damn about anyone else but themselves?

Let's do this by the numbers; 1995, 300 out of 900 athletes are getting an IV and 7 spend the night in the hospital after a 100 degree day leaves carnage. Another 100 volunteer are in need of medical attention. I raced the event. This event boosts one of the most best medical directors in the USA and he is a triathlete. So afrer 32 years you have some darn smart folks operating this event.

2012: 1800 athletes and 1200 volunteers equals maybe 600-800 medicals. It just is not possible to take care of that many people. Period. The water yesterday was over 90d. USA Swimming will not allow an OWS event over 85!

Professionally the right call. The event could have just been cancelled. And Lord knows we have had our share of disagreements with the Tampa folks but in this case; they got it right!

Very well put. I would not start any race regardless of the distance if the conditions are like today in Muncie. I value my health more than money and I'm not getting paid to do this. As far as the bucket listers who are complaining they have no clue anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------
I see obsessed people.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [7summits] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 6:31

Post #89 of 208 (5862 views)

It would be interesting to know if they ever considered shortening the run, but leaving the swim/bike the same. The heat stress during the swim/bike is significantly less than that on the run and I'd wager there would be a very small percentage of athletes needing medical assistance off the bike, unless they were just being negligent on the bike and not taking in enough fluids/ electrolytes.

I think it's interesting that races are more than willing to cancel the swim for safely reasons (too cold, too much current, etc) but would never consider canceling the run adn leaving other distances the same. Surely, the danger is athletes "melting down" on the run. Why not run a 5k at the end, it's just as "fair" as canceling swim, or shortening races... if you added 9m to the bike, you could still call it a 70.3!

On a seperate note, I hate when they shorten/ modify races, but I'm never surprised and don't expect it to ever change. RD's and big companies, like WTC, have all the power and will continue to use/ abuse it. Triathlon is like all other capitalist pursuits- supply and demand. As long as races fill up and people are making money, races will function as they currently do. Why can't you get a refund or transfer entry to races? Because they don't have to. They have your money and you're not getting it back.

If participants aren't willing to do something about the issues that are important to them (race distances changing, ridiculous entry fees, etc) than expect things to never change. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Power13] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 6:32

Post #90 of 208 (5859 views)

Power13 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

davearm wrote:

radelj44 wrote:

link5485 wrote:

Should they have offered races that already sold out? Most of them are crowded enough as it is.

1) I think the credit is bogus... they should offer refunds to those who don't want to do an Olympic
2) If they are going to do the credit; it should apply to ALL WTC EVENTS (excluding Kona and Vegas obviously).
3) To the people who think they are doing the best they can... FUCK THAT. I can come up with 100 different options for the athletes who don't want to compete but WTC is not going to even darken that door because they fear of losing money... which they wouldn't.

I find it curious that you think WTC should offer refunds to everyone that wants one, but somehow don't expect they would lose money by doing so.

It's not like WTC's expenses on this race are going to decrease because the length is shortened. The t-shirts, gatorade, timing chips, expo hall, etc etc are already paid for.

+1

So WTC gets their money no matter what and only the athletes assume the financial risk?

Yep, that is the contract you signed when you signed up for the race. Just like most airline tickets are or others things you buy with a no return policy. I have been an RD. I know the money is basically all spent if the race happens or not. Sorry, this is just a hobby. If you want to start your own HTFU race series, and think you can stay in business after the first lawsuit against you, then go for it. If you think you can do a race and not have all the money spent before the race starts, and if something happens give back all your savings in the bank since who cares about profit, etc, then again, go for it. So many in this sport have NO idea how the business works. If there is no profit, there are no races.

I guess I should have forced the ITU to give me all my money back from the Canada Worlds when they had go make my race a duathlon rather than a triathon. I guess I should have forced the ITU to give all my money
back from the Gold Coast worlds since they stopped the race on a number of my family members for no reason and they were not allowed to finish. The amount of money I spent to take my family to that race and not even get their names in the results makes these complaints, well, ....

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 7:06

Post #91 of 208 (5821 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Power13 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

davearm wrote:

radelj44 wrote:

link5485 wrote:

Should they have offered races that already sold out? Most of them are crowded enough as it is.

1) I think the credit is bogus... they should offer refunds to those who don't want to do an Olympic
2) If they are going to do the credit; it should apply to ALL WTC EVENTS (excluding Kona and Vegas obviously).
3) To the people who think they are doing the best they can... FUCK THAT. I can come up with 100 different options for the athletes who don't want to compete but WTC is not going to even darken that door because they fear of losing money... which they wouldn't.

I find it curious that you think WTC should offer refunds to everyone that wants one, but somehow don't expect they would lose money by doing so.

It's not like WTC's expenses on this race are going to decrease because the length is shortened. The t-shirts, gatorade, timing chips, expo hall, etc etc are already paid for.

+1

So WTC gets their money no matter what and only the athletes assume the financial risk?

Yep, that is the contract you signed when you signed up for the race. Just like most airline tickets are or others things you buy with a no return policy. I have been an RD. I know the money is basically all spent if the race happens or not. Sorry, this is just a hobby. If you want to start your own HTFU race series, and think you can stay in business after the first lawsuit against you, then go for it. If you think you can do a race and not have all the money spent before the race starts, and if something happens give back all your savings in the bank since who cares about profit, etc, then again, go for it. So many in this sport have NO idea how the business works. If there is no profit, there are no races.

I guess I should have forced the ITU to give me all my money back from the Canada Worlds when they had go make my race a duathlon rather than a triathon. I guess I should have forced the ITU to give all my money
back from the Gold Coast worlds since they stopped the race on a number of my family members for no reason and they were not allowed to finish. The amount of money I spent to take my family to that race and not even get their names in the results makes these complaints, well, ....

.

I don't think you nderstand my point....nobody said anything about you going back to the ITU and asking for money back.

My point is simple - there is financial risk on both sides, the race organizers and the athletes. That risk should be shared. I am not suggesting that refunds be given, but partial credit towards another race is reasonable.

The athletes signed on for a defined product. If that product is not delivered as promised, some form of compensation is not out of the question.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [teacherman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 7:11

Post #92 of 208 (5814 views)

wtf is a "Muncie?" is this an actual race?

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Power13] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 7:11

Post #93 of 208 (5814 views)

Power13 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Power13 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

davearm wrote:

radelj44 wrote:

link5485 wrote:

Should they have offered races that already sold out? Most of them are crowded enough as it is.

1) I think the credit is bogus... they should offer refunds to those who don't want to do an Olympic
2) If they are going to do the credit; it should apply to ALL WTC EVENTS (excluding Kona and Vegas obviously).
3) To the people who think they are doing the best they can... FUCK THAT. I can come up with 100 different options for the athletes who don't want to compete but WTC is not going to even darken that door because they fear of losing money... which they wouldn't.

I find it curious that you think WTC should offer refunds to everyone that wants one, but somehow don't expect they would lose money by doing so.

It's not like WTC's expenses on this race are going to decrease because the length is shortened. The t-shirts, gatorade, timing chips, expo hall, etc etc are already paid for.

+1

So WTC gets their money no matter what and only the athletes assume the financial risk?

Sorry, you did not sign up for a product with shared risks. Read what was signed. Yep, WTC, USAT, local mom and pop race, you signed up giving them money knowing you might not race "the" race
for reasons out of your control, or theirs.

Life is just way to short to bitch about things like this!! Now, maybe it will make a difference on your death bed, but sorry, not mine.

..

Yep, that is the contract you signed when you signed up for the race. Just like most airline tickets are or others things you buy with a no return policy. I have been an RD. I know the money is basically all spent if the race happens or not. Sorry, this is just a hobby. If you want to start your own HTFU race series, and think you can stay in business after the first lawsuit against you, then go for it. If you think you can do a race and not have all the money spent before the race starts, and if something happens give back all your savings in the bank since who cares about profit, etc, then again, go for it. So many in this sport have NO idea how the business works. If there is no profit, there are no races.

I guess I should have forced the ITU to give me all my money back from the Canada Worlds when they had go make my race a duathlon rather than a triathon. I guess I should have forced the ITU to give all my money
back from the Gold Coast worlds since they stopped the race on a number of my family members for no reason and they were not allowed to finish. The amount of money I spent to take my family to that race and not even get their names in the results makes these complaints, well, ....

.

I don't think you nderstand my point....nobody said anything about you going back to the ITU and asking for money back.

My point is simple - there is financial risk on both sides, the race organizers and the athletes. That risk should be shared. I am not suggesting that refunds be given, but partial credit towards another race is reasonable.

The athletes signed on for a defined product. If that product is not delivered as promised, some form of compensation is not out of the question.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 7:20

Post #94 of 208 (5798 views)

I'm not bitching about anything....and in general, I agree with WTC's decision re: Muncie. I am simply saying, that from a PR and customer relations standpoint, it is to WTC's benefit to offer a credit of some kind.

I don't agree that the athlete should bear the financial burden of WTC's decisions, regardless of waivers, etc. Is WTC obligated to offer a credit? Of course not....but, again, from a PR / customer service POV, they would be foolish not to.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Power13] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 7:39

Post #95 of 208 (5771 views)

Power13 wrote:

I'm not bitching about anything....and in general, I agree with WTC's decision re: Muncie. I am simply saying, that from a PR and customer relations standpoint, it is to WTC's benefit to offer a credit of some kind.

I don't agree that the athlete should bear the financial burden of WTC's decisions, regardless of waivers, etc. Is WTC obligated to offer a credit? Of course not....but, again, from a PR / customer service POV, they would be foolish not to.

Just show me one race that WTC does not fill up because of their existing policies! So, you might think they have a PR issue, but the results speak louder than any of our opinions.

So easy if you do not like what a business has to sell, just do not buy it. Why does this seem so hard for so many to understand? Do you buy food, or a car, or a house you do not like the terms on?
Oh I forgot, we now have folks bitching that their house is underwater and that is not fair and they want the rest of the country to pay for their contract they signed. Sorry, I just forget how we have become
such an entitlement society. (But do these same folks give up their profits to the country when they are on the plus side?)

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [matto] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 8:06

Post #96 of 208 (5740 views)

matto wrote:

Is there athlete tracking available?

Found it: http://ironman.com/...r=2012#axzz1zwJdv8L3

Well the results seem to be stuck, and haven't been updated in over a half hour.

Maybe it's too hot so the let the computer take a break.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Power13] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 8:28

Post #97 of 208 (5719 views)

Power13 wrote:

I'm not bitching about anything....and in general, I agree with WTC's decision re: Muncie. I am simply saying, that from a PR and customer relations standpoint, it is to WTC's benefit to offer a credit of some kind.

I don't agree that the athlete should bear the financial burden of WTC's decisions, regardless of waivers, etc. Is WTC obligated to offer a credit? Of course not....but, again, from a PR / customer service POV, they would be foolish not to.

Quote:

We would also like to extend a $125 discount to each IRONMAN 70.3 Muncie athlete for one of
the following races:
o IRONMAN 70.3 Steelhead � Aug. 19, 2012
o IRONMAN 70.3 Timberman � Aug. 19, 2012
o IRONMAN 70.3 Branson � Sept. 23, 2012
o IRONMAN 70.3 Austin � Oct. 28, 2012

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [davearm] [ In reply to ]

choochooexpress

Jul 7, 12 8:59

Post #98 of 208 (5678 views)

I just checked the weather and it's 96 degrees in Muncie after 11:00am. It didn't even get over 100!

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [choochooexpress] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 9:10

Post #99 of 208 (5665 views)

The people you'd have to worry about most would not even be running yet at 11:00.

Re: ironman Muncie 70.3 now an olympic.... weak [Stindiana] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 12 9:10

Post #100 of 208 (5665 views)

Stindiana wrote:

Really just beyond understanding. Does anyone on this tread give a damn about anyone else but themselves?

Let's do this by the numbers; 1995, 300 out of 900 athletes are getting an IV and 7 spend the night in the hospital after a 100 degree day leaves carnage. Another 100 volunteer are in need of medical attention. I raced the event. This event boosts one of the most best medical directors in the USA and he is a triathlete. So afrer 32 years you have some darn smart folks operating this event.

2012: 1800 athletes and 1200 volunteers equals maybe 600-800 medicals. It just is not possible to take care of that many people. Period. The water yesterday was over 90d. USA Swimming will not allow an OWS event over 85!

Professionally the right call. The event could have just been cancelled. And Lord knows we have had our share of disagreements with the Tampa folks but in this case; they got it right!

If they are truly concerned and this isn't a financial call (ie not willing to pony up for ice and more water and Gatorade etc...) then this should be cancelled. Slow finishers will still be on course for close to 3 hours (if not more) so they will still be dying from the heat and the volunteers will still have to be out there. And the fastest people will push themselves harder.

Ian

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