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Re: doubts about Alistair [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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I hope so - Iā€™d like to see a relatively healthy Alistair at a few more big races. I didnā€™t see much of the menā€™s race, hopefully just a one-off thing.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: doubts about Alistair [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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Heā€™s entered Ironman Kalmar in August as a last shot.

Very interested in Swansea 70.3 next week.

Heā€™s bound to have some luck somedayā€¦
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Azmini] [ In reply to ]
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Only heard of Bishop on that start list...

https://www.220triathlon.com/...ronman-70-3-swansea/
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Azmini] [ In reply to ]
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Azmini wrote:
Heā€™s entered Ironman Kalmar in August as a last shot.

Very interested in Swansea 70.3 next week.

Heā€™s bound to have some luck somedayā€¦

3:49 on a very tough course with a 1:09 run.

Not too bad!
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Re: doubts about Alistair [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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Isnā€™t the guy who came second considered a bit of a super runner; Lopes?

Swam with Horsfall Turner and biked off on his own.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Looked quite healthy crossing the finish line, bonus!
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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He was on another level in Swansea. Held AHT's feet in the swim, rode away, then solid on a warm run. His full distance in a couple of weeks will be interesting
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Re: doubts about Alistair [chatlow] [ In reply to ]
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What IM race is he down for?
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
What IM race is he down for?

Kalmar / Sweden
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Re: doubts about Alistair [chatlow] [ In reply to ]
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Itā€™s not the race distance that is the issue is it? It seems like itā€™s the pressure/tactics that play out in stacked fields that is the biggest obstacle heā€™s still yet to figure out in LC racing.

Iā€™d wager his next IM heā€™ll easily ā€œcrush itā€ as itā€™s what a B/C level field??

Thatā€™s not the issue imo w/ AB at LC races. Itā€™s racing stacked fields that brings in more decisions and thus more consequences of said decisions that is the issue.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: doubts about Alistair [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Itā€™s not the race distance that is the issue is it? It seems like itā€™s the pressure/tactics that play out in stacked fields that is the biggest obstacle heā€™s still yet to figure out in LC racing.

Iā€™d wager his next IM heā€™ll easily ā€œcrush itā€ as itā€™s what a B/C level field??

Thatā€™s not the issue imo w/ AB at LC races. Itā€™s racing stacked fields that brings in more decisions and thus more consequences of said decisions that is the issue.

I'd never thought of that - but it would seem you have a really good point. I suppose the only outlier here is the 70.3 worlds in South Africa where he, Gomez and Frodeno put down 1:07-1:08 runs having been doing all the work on the bike (AB and Frodo anyway)

But other than that, you're right. I wonder if it's his balls to the wall mentality from ITU? In ITU he was game changing - he could smash all three disciplines and win. In fact, since he has left ITU, it has become what is was up to 2009 - a bore fest of pack rides followed by the best runner wins.

Perhaps he applies this method to LC and it catches him out.

Why do you think that is? He's not stupid, for sure.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:
He really is an enjoyable commentator.

It would be so hard when you still swim and ride at that level, and you have been a top runner, to give it up. Especially with unfinished LC business. I donā€™t fault him for continuing to chase it.

Agreed.

I wouldn't write him off just yet. Will he dominate long course racing? No. Will he be able to pull the odd quality race out of the bag? Yes.

Personally, once he gets some run form back, I'd like to see him continue to swim the way he does but then just sit in the bike 'pack' and see how that impacts on his run performance. I don't think you can hammer all 3 disciplines in long course (unless you are Norwegian).

ā˜ļøā€¦.but maybe you can also still hammer all 3 disciplines when you are on a good day.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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No I donā€™t think heā€™s stupid at all. Heā€™s brilliant at the tactics and the history and the understanding of races. But I think there is an ā€œarroganceā€ of his will is better than everyone elseā€™s and so if heā€™s in the hurt locker imagine how bad the others are.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: doubts about Alistair [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Itā€™s not the race distance that is the issue is it? It seems like itā€™s the pressure/tactics that play out in stacked fields that is the biggest obstacle heā€™s still yet to figure out in LC racing.

Iā€™d wager his next IM heā€™ll easily ā€œcrush itā€ as itā€™s what a B/C level field??

Thatā€™s not the issue imo w/ AB at LC races. Itā€™s racing stacked fields that brings in more decisions and thus more consequences of said decisions that is the issue.

I partially agree with the tactics but not the pressure. London 2012 was a pressure cooker and he did ok.

He leads out, today that lead out was easy and controlled no stress on the body. When fields are stacked he still leads out and I am not convinced this is the best tactic for him. Once/if he figures out LC racing in stacked fields he will be up there with the best.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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I specifically said Pressure in regards to LC.

heā€™s still yet to figure out in LC racing.

Bringing up his itu success kinda further showcases the point. He was the patron saint in itu. Now heā€™s becoming the guy that if they give him enough rope, heā€™ll hang himself w his bike effort.

A wise coach one told me- ā€œwhen an athlete shows you who they are, believe themā€.

Until AB can show us heā€™s figured out racing stacked world class fields, heā€™ll just be more of the guy who makes the race and not the guy winning the races.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Aug 7, 22 10:14
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Re: doubts about Alistair [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
No I donā€™t think heā€™s stupid at all. Heā€™s brilliant at the tactics and the history and the understanding of races. But I think there is an ā€œarroganceā€ of his will is better than everyone elseā€™s and so if heā€™s in the hurt locker imagine how bad the others are.

It's a nice take, thank you.

Hopefully he fixes this.

I'd like to see him do himself justice at LC, even if only briefly.

From the Twitter clips I've seen from the course today, he was moving at a hell of a pace on the run and looked totally relaxed

His running form is fantastic.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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I think fixing it takes racing consistently big races and that is unfortunately his biggest downfall. He canā€™t seem to stay out of the niggle injury status, that means he either skips a big boy race or races ā€œwhen he shouldnā€™tā€ (pto Canada?)?

And so he builds back up and looks ā€œgreatā€ in smaller events and so the hype train will build back up. Heā€™s gotta put it together when it counts now. Maybe heā€™s turned the corner, I have no clue. I hope he has because it will make for much better racing.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: doubts about Alistair [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I think fixing it takes racing consistently big races and that is unfortunately his biggest downfall. He canā€™t seem to stay out of the niggle injury status, that means he either skips a big boy race or races ā€œwhen he shouldnā€™tā€ (pto Canada?)?

And so he builds back up and looks ā€œgreatā€ in smaller events and so the hype train will build back up. Heā€™s gotta put it together when it counts now. Maybe heā€™s turned the corner, I have no clue. I hope he has because it will make for much better racing.

Pretty accurate.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think he is dumb, but he does races dumb many times. At PTO Canadian, he was pushing too hard as whenever Laidlow would go to the front, he would keep a very sketchy "20 m" distance behind. I think the refs were generous not to give him a warning or penalty. Then of course he hit the wall on the run just like Daytona. He keeps trying to outbike everyone and it does not seem to work. On the other hand, I don't like the guy as he has done some really dirty stuff when racing, but I admit he makes the races exciting by hammering off the front.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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After a 15-minute delay to the planned start time, the Menā€™s Pro race got underway with the 1.9km, two-lap swim in the Prince of Wales dock, the same venue that hosted Saturdayā€™s Volvo World Triathlon Para Series races.

With PTO Canadian Open bronze medallist, Aaron Royle out of the race (announced earlier in the week), that further cemented double Olympic champion Alistair Brownleeā€™s race favourite status.

In normal circumstances, the only debate might be who would join him on the podium, but the way his 2022 has gone to date, that wasnā€™t quite the absolute certainty it might typically have been. Falling exactly 10 years to the day since that famous gold at London 2012, a sunny Sunday in Swansea would seem an appropriate time to get back to winning ways.

No surprise to see Walesā€™ Andrew Horsfall-Turner leading the way in the water (22:15), with Brownlee and Tom Bishop right on his heels. They were 45 seconds clear of a chase pack, which included the like of Thomas Davis, Michael Boult (AUS), James Teagle, Antonio Benito-Lopez (ESP), Jack Hutchens, Maurice Clavel (GER), Harry Palmer, Elliot Smales, Liam Lloyd.

We expected Brownlee to break clear on the bike early, and he soon said his goodbyes to Horsfall-Turner and Bishop, and was more than a minute and a half clear inside the first 20 km.

60km in and that advantage was three and half minutes, from what was now a chase group of five ā€“ Lloyd, Clavel, Teagle, Benito-Lopez and Bishop.

By the time Brownlee reached the T2 dismount line, his advantage had extended further to 5:39 over home favourite Liam Lloyd. Lloyd had broken clear from the chase group in the closing third of the ride, leaving Bishop, Clavel and Benito-Lopez almost seven minutes down on the pace pace-setting Brownlee. Two disciplines down, could he complete the job and prove once again that form is temporary, class is permanent?

Absolutely he could ā€“ and in some style. He maintained sub 1:10 half marathon pace throughout and not surprisingly that saw him put even more distance between himself and the chasing pack.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Whatā€™s the quote from 1st top gun?

His ego is writing checks that his body canā€™t cash

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Fair to not like his racing tactics, but I watched the PTO race never saw him sucking wheel.

Ali has it the injury bug the last few years but has shown in Australia IM and today he has the skills to win a big race.

IF he stops surging away from world class guys at the start of the bike and start of the run.
Needs to learn long course is a steady state with a hard finish on an empty tank not, surge and empty the tank early and run on fumes and pressure to stay out front.

He needs to learn kind of like mark allen , shadow Jan or kristen or gustav, and make it a 5 km run at the end feeling good.

In kona he surged at least 3 x in the first 15 km before the flat.
Nice 70.3 Worlds, right of the bike surges on gustav the first 2 km then slows, stay steady this in not ITU, a 700 watt surge and then a wheel suck doesn't happen in long course.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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I think the issue at PTO was when Laidlow took his turn on the front Brownlee wasnā€™t happy with the pace and was pulling his old ITU tricks of trying to push him on. Especially towards the end of the bike leg they seemed to be dropping time to the chasers behind when Laidlow took the lead, so I got the impression Brownlee was trying to get him to up the pace and ended up getting close on a number of occasions. I would imagine those small surges closing up to Laidlow cost him quite dearly, even without his stomach issues he might have struggled
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Re: doubts about Alistair [Azmini] [ In reply to ]
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I really wish this race was being broadcast.

Wurf is also on the start list for Kalmar so it'll be interesting to see how AB approaches the bike leg - it could be a trial run for Kona.

Would have made or a fascinating race dynamic if Wurf didnt already have his KQ.
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Re: doubts about Alistair [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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See I think the stomach issue come from the bike over reach. Sam is the second best biker in Long course behind Magnus. Why chase him, give Sam 90 sec and run him down like the Norwegians did.

Easy to say in hindsight as if Ali did win we would be calling him next level and top pick for kona.

But going in you have to have your bike watt limit paces set to know when I guy is better and will F U up for the run and let that guy risk it not you. 2nd would have been better the 20 th.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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