So if you were trying to decide between the Kickr and the Neo, with the priority being "feel" you would choose the Neo? I am currently on a Road Machine and looking to get a smart trainer but really like the feel of the road machine

Feel and lack of noise go to the Neo...

Hell I think the Cyclops hammer feels better then the Kickr.

I personally did not like the rocking motion of the neo, based on the few minutes that I tried it out at the bike shop, but that could be just me.

I found it a tiny bit disconcerting the first time I rode mine but haven't noticed it in the past few thousand miles of problem free rides that include peddling while standing on occasion to stretch. It's a very solid trainer.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

One advantage of the kickr: you can add on the kickr climb when it comes out in the new year, which looks very cool, both from a road feel perspective, and an ergonomics perspective (more natural climbing position).

The climb doesn't really interest me. Im really torn... my LBS sells the Kickr so i can try that but would probably have to order the Neo online.

Really? Uff. I recently got a Tacx Neo and have not been impressed with the road feel. I haven't tried a Kickr.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

It seems like if you the more people I ask this question to the less clear the choice becomes. There doesn't seem to be a consensus that one has a better road feel than the other.

well it's all downhill after the NEO....

nothing quite is the road...but the road.

Right, but the Neo is significantly worse than my LeMond trainer. Granted, the Lemond is known for its road feel. But I also believe the Neo is worse than my InsideRide rollers and my KK road machine, though I haven't been on either of those super recently. I've been playing around with the settings on my phone to try and make the Neo better with some modest success . . . I'm riding with a -1.2% gradient or something like that.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Clearly YMMV. To me the difference in sound volume and pitch between the NEO and the Kickr is night and day (huge advantage to NEO obviously, no contest at all)... While to others the difference is "very slight".

I notice a few people have mentioned the Neo feels good general use but not so good in ERG mode.
Is your negative impression of the "road feel" based on general use, ERG mode or both?

Like others, I've got a KK Road Machine and I'm considering a smart trainer. Noise is a consideration but so is road feel. I really like the Road Machine and would hate to take a step backwards in feel.

There is a slight difference in sound with the Wahoo KICKR Version 2 vs Version 1.

Here is where the NEO Wins
Less noisy than the KICKR Version 2
Simulates different road surfaces like cobbles or gravel.
Supposedly more accurate (< 1%) - KICKR is +/- 2%
Neo has some lateral movement built in the unit so it can rock back and forth more natually

Here is where the KICKR Wins
Easier to transport (Has a handle). The NEO you have to break it down and flip up the wings to carry it or carrying by it's wings down.
KICKR Version 2 can be paired up with the KICKR Climb to better simulate climbing, which can be a big plus.
KICKR is $400 cheaper ($1,999 vs $1,599) Retail prices + you need to buy a cassette with the NEO.
Build Quality - IMO the KICKR's frame is better built and uses better materials.
KICKR comes with a cadence sensor and a 11 spd cassette


If you want a trainer that blows these away as far as noise, check out the STAC Zero. The downside is it isn't electric.

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https://GearMashers.com - Cycling Enthusiast and Reviewer.

As a Lemond owner I can only imagine that's a bitter pill to swallow. Love my Lemond Rev. From what I can see it's no longer in production. If so I can understand that it's market share was killed by "smart" trainers, but still what a shame...

I don't think the road feel works in Erg mode. I'm guessing the electric motor is too busy holding a steady power to be worrying about also trying to simulate road feel. The whole road feel thing is sorta nifty and fun, but frankly not anything I'd make a buying decision on.

As far as I remember the STAC Zero can't be controlled for power, although I would think it could be done. I presume accuracy and consistency may be an issue.

The price difference between the Kickr and Neo is probably smaller in Europe (I'm in Ireland) although I have yet to shop around properly. The Direto looks like one possibility. The Kickr and Neo are the others. I'm not too bothered about the climb accessory or portability. It'll stay put 99% of the time. Noise and feel are my priorities really. I'd also like left/right power measurement since I don't have a PM that'll provide that. I'm not sure that I'll use ERG mode much.
The Neo appears to be the clear winner on noise. Feel seems to be VERY subjective and I'm trying to work out if the negative comments regarding the Neo mostly apply to ERG mode. The left/right measurement is currently only on the Direto.

Hmmmmm

You should be able to find the NEO online every once in a while in the 1250-1275 euro range. Typical non-deal price seems to be 1400. Kickr seems to be 1200-1300 normal price. All that to say, you're right, they are more similar in the EU markets.

I personally have had the NEO for 3 weeks, and have no complaints at all. I absolutely love it, and it has totally changed my motivation for getting on the bike inside.

FYI, CleverTraining is having a 20% sale now. Both trainers are included in the discount

(https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...ers-fenix5-sale.html)

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Here are some of the Wahoo KICKR upgrades from previous versions.

• New Ergonomic Grip Carrying Handle (Makes it much easier to maneuver the KICKR trainer)
• Easier Access Plug-In Location
• Increased Simulated Hills (Grade increased from 15% to 20%)
• Increased Wattage (Maximum wattage increased from 1,500 watts to 2,000 watts)
• 11-speed compatibility
• Quieter unit (Wahoo claims the new unit is 14% quieter over the 1st generation KICKR)
• Compatible with the Wahoo KICKR Climb (1st generation is not compatible)
• Status Indicator Lights (2 LED connectivity lights confirm Bluetooth and ANT+ connectivity)
• Programatic Changes to the electromagnetic braking system to improve response time.
• KICKR now fully supports 12x142 and 12x148 thru axle spacing

So I wouldn't compare the old KICKR to the NEO, I would compare the newer version to it.

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https://GearMashers.com - Cycling Enthusiast and Reviewer.

are you sure kick2 is comp with the climb.. I dont really care but most of my early readings were negative on that. There is a newer kickr now.. call it 2.5 or 3.0 that is climb comp.

you're right, it's the 3rd gen kickr that's compatible only. Wahoo label as Kickr 2017.

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Yep I was just on their website. From what I understand there have been 3 separate versions.

• 2017 EDITION KICKR POWER TRAINER - I believe this is the only one that works with the KICKR Climb. $1,999
• 2016 EDITION KICKR POWER TRAINER - $899.99
• KICKR (Oldest) - Don't sell any more

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https://GearMashers.com - Cycling Enthusiast and Reviewer.

STAC apparently has a version with controllable resistance in the works.

I've got the kickstarter version of the Zero from last year and the trainer itself is definitely silent -- really lets you know when your drivetrain needs cleaning. I really like how minimal and light it is, and the clever use of eddy currents on your existing wheel.

But I still flip-flop on the road feel and stability -- some days I like our CycleOps fluid 2 better.

There are certainly tradeoffs, but for me the STAC Zero hits a nice sweet spot for portability and simplicity. On the other end of the spectrum, I am definitely eyeing a heavy, solid, direct-drive smart trainer as a workhorse at home this winter.

I own both, so I feel I can comment.

• The KICKR accuracy is not +/- 2%. I was seeing 5% if I was lucky, depending on how warmed up the machine was. I blamed my power meter for a long time, then once I got my Neo, everything was perfectly aligned.
• The NEO DOES have a built in cadence sensor.
• When you say the NEO is less noisy, this does not do it justice. It is completely silent. The only noise you hear is chain noise.
• The Kickr belt wears out, and needs to be replaced periodically. Plus there is a shim inside the freehub that wears, and needs replacing.
• The small amount of lateral movement is a great feature. I do sprint training on Neo with much more confidence that I will not break the bike frame.

Overall I am big fan of the Neo as you can tell ;-)

Have you ever ridden a Computrainer? If so, how's the noise level relative to the Neo and latest Kickr? I presume both direct drive units are quieter. Been a Computrainer user since 1999.

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I wanna go fast!