the main reason i havent considered a ti tri bike is that they arent aero. 2 years until id be able to afford one

The Litespeed Blade actually tested very well in the tunnel. That's what Lance rode (well, the tubeset, welded to his geometry, with a slack STA vs. the 78deg of the Blade) in the '99 TdF. It was certainly quite a heavy tubeset, but it did test well. The updated with Saber with internal cabling also tested pretty well, and was much lighter, but not nearly as aero as the Blade. And then you had the updated Blade, where they did a special kind of bending (something "break," but I forget what it was called exactly), which was also very aero, but stupid expensive to make. It was just impractical.

But the core Litespeed tubesets are pretty good. Lynskey still makes bikes with, I believe, the core Saber tubeset, which is pretty darn good. The really good high-end bikes are obviously faster, but if you can tolerate the weight, Litespeed still could make you a Blade, and that's a darn fast tubeset.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

So has anyone bought one of these, yet?

Soul is working on some pretty cool titanium TT frames. Whenever this becomes available I would love to build one of these up! Looks pretty aero too...

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AAA Tri Team | Team Sports Bistro

Custom Lynskeys are in the $4000 range, about on par with other high end carbon. It'll be heavy though

except one that'll probably be more fragile than a generic carbon frameset

FWIW, titanium can be repaired, and Lynskey quoted me $500 as the most they charged to repair bikes. It's also worth noting that they do a lot of repairs (for which customers pay out of pocket) on old Litespeeds as Litespeed seems to have forgotten how to weld Ti and would just offer a carbon frame as replacement.

JSA - carbon lasts as forever as titanium does, and carbon is built by hand too. It certainly irks me that when asian hands build a bike it is considered mass produced but if an anglo builds a bike it is art.
=)

My carbon bikes (and for that matter, all my painted bikes, and at last count there were 11 of them in the basement racks) have nicks and chips, and I'm constantly looking for stress fractures, especially after a pothole. Carbon may last as forever as ti, but it's certainly not as forgiving and easy maintenance. And the ti resale is awesome. I wouldn't sell my '92 Merlin (Tom Kellogg) with Grease Guard bottom bracket for anything. With more than 70,000 miles on it, all it needs is a polish with the carpet side of Velcro to bring back the new-frame finish, a new set of decals, and it looks like new.[/quote]

could you point me to the data? i just have a hard time believing the current/past ti frames are more aero than a cervelo p1/dual/p2k

he didn't say they were

but they could be

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

My Lightspeed blade has stood the test of time, over 70,000 miles and travel all around the world without a scratch, can't say the same for carbon,(New Zealand Ironman) over 40 people had cracked frames, when they opened their bike boxes, I also have a carbon bike and love it, don't know if I would feel good traveling with it, the way TSA repacks, my 2 cents anyway.

fascinating statistic, how was the collected?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

That was easy, Race Director and the local LBS, that had all these people coming to them for a fix

Compare a custom Ti frame (Seven, Roark, IF) to a custom CF frame (Calfee, Guru) and you'll see that there is no premium.

There just aren't a lot of mass produced Ti bikes; Ti has become a boutique material. Ti is less able to benefit from economies of scale since it typically needs to be TIG'd by highly experienced certified welders. From a mass consumption standpoint, the fact that Ti frames can't match the weight or aerodynamics of CF means that the market is riders who love the more traditional look, lively ride, and durability of Ti.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I've got Ti and Alu bikes. The Ti is definitely more resistant to things like small dents and dings. My Ti bike is my go-to bike for climbs (most of my rides) because it is setup with a compact and I love the geo of the bike for descending, it's very very stable. But as far as the "comfort difference"... meh. It all comes down to wheels, tires, saddle, bars, and tape.

sounds like one of those stories where 4 becomes 14 becomes 40 to me =)

anyone of all the frames I've shipped or had shipped to me, only an aluminium one was ever damaged! damnit!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Wow I must be the fringe carbon owner then. 3 cracked carbon frames in about 4 years with Trek. Have somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 years of ti bikes in the early to mid 90's in use overall with a Litespeed Tachyon, Ultimate and Merlin Extralight with not so much as a single issue. I gave up on carbon and have had 5 straight alum road/tt bikes, back to having no issues.

plenty of people have had bad luck with TI welds too.

no material is safe from bad assembly or bad design. (aluminum cervelo seat tubes, for instance!)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Total cost of ownership for Ti is a lot lower, at least in my circle.

I swear, every time I keep thinking of adding a new road bike to the pack, it's hard to justify because my custom Holland Ti frame rides as it should. And this is with my wife giving the green light to get a new steed, whatever it may be. I may just get a beach cruiser. LOL.

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"Yeah you point a finger back far enough and some germ gets blamed for splitting in two."

Colonel Saul Tigh from Battlestar Galactica

I don't have it. I'm basing it off (obviously biased) discussions with Brad Devaney, head of engineering/design at ABG re: the OLD Blade. Of course, Brad & I were/are good friends, and it was simply a casual discussion. I'd wager it was probably equivalent to the P2SL (or what is not the P1). Considering that might bike still shits on a lot of "high end" carbon bikes, I'd say that's pretty good. I consider the P1 to be a *very* aero bike. Maybe you were hoping for something with P4/SC/Shiv type numbers, and in that sense, I'm sure the old Blade was a few steps behind.

The numbers from the new Blade (that never got made for production) might be floating around somewhere. If not, I might be able to get them from Brad, since the bike never actually went to production.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I had my Ti frame custom made by a Michigan based artisan. Love it. Everytime I do a group ride, someone compliments it. I've never heard the same said to carbon bike riders.......http://www.quiringcycles.net/

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http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/

True. That includes carbon. And since anything can be badly designed, no material distinguishes itself from another in that regard.

But I didn't see that tigerpaws was saying the bikes were badly designed or defectively assembled. He said they cracked.

yep and I have no doubt that many, probably even MOST carbon frames are going to be more susceptible to cracks from crashes/bumps, because that is part of the advantage of carbon fiber - you can make it strong only where you expect it NEEDS to be strong. If you want to lead the industry in weight/dollar value, you are going to do that, and a clamp on the top tube or a fall and it may break very easily compared to a metal frame.

I know some bike makers reinforce their frames with crashes in mind though. But with steel/aluminum/titanium, its inevitable that the tube will be of equal strength no matter how it is stressed. so certainly safer/easier to design well.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

that's hot. i've always loved the look of unpainted ti ...

A few companies weave their own carbon. I think Giant, BMC, and Serotta.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

they may be weaving their own fabric, but they are not weaving the bike. (at least, I would be stunned if they were, but I've been stunned before)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Nope. I managed to crack two Trek OCLV frames, where the chainstay meets the bottom bracket on the drive side. I've had my Seven since 2001, and it still looks and rides like new. Also, it was about $2000 back then, for the frame, and is absolutlely the exact same model as the frame they are charging almost $4000 for today (seamless double butted 3/2.5). Meanwhile, if you drop $5000 or $6000 on a new carbon bike from any of the big box manufacturers, you can rest assured that the frame will be "obsolete" in about two or three years to their new model. I know the differences are miniscule, and all marketing hype, but it's still frustrating.