Agree. Garmin is a weird team and they keep getting more and more weird. I always think there is little positivity coming from the riders and management - never showing much excitement for anything. THat has been their culture for quite while, though.

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Don't forget to attack!

What Sagan really needs is a teammate that's also a threat so that everyone can't just mark him out of the race. Moser could be that guy in some cases but imagine that next year he's going to be looking for a squad with at least one stronger player.

Being named team leader is one thing but earning the respect of teammates to ride out of their skin is another. Contador has the latter, I think Talansky is still learning about how you get there. Maybe yesterday will get him closer.

Alex Howes was pretty much the same way when interviewed by NBCSN after the stage. I thought that was strange too.

Yes Rick....I agree........Talansky last night was compelling.

It seems as though Talansky abandoned the race because his team abandoned him. I can only wonder what he could have done if his team had showed him unconditional support rather than cut him loose. Yes you can say you have to be mentally tough and take care of yourself, but you can also say the team is stronger than the individual alone. I can think of times I would have quit, but because of my teammates I kept going, so as not to let them down. Who cannot say the same?

And, what would give the team better press? A dude winning a stage, at all costs, or, a team pulling together, regardless of cost, to try and help their buddy make it to the line? Which team would you admire more?

Seems the Garmin push at the front was one day too early. What would it have hurt to send somebody or two back to encourage Andrew? I agree, there's some funky team dynamics going on here. Maybe team is too strong a word here. How about a loose collection of individuals.

One thing is obvious to me, there is no real teamspirit there and I place big questionmarks with the management too.



You can also reverse that: who has respect for riders leaving teammates behind? I would definiately admire the team that acts as a team more.



+1

A bit off topic, there is a movie out since a couple of months, it's called 'Nieuwe Helden' in Dutch, it translates to 'New Heroes'. They filmed the Argos Shimano (now Giant shimano) team from the inside during the 2013 Tour de France, spoke to all the staff, interviewed all riders during the race etc...is it out yet outside The Netherlands? I've seen it twice already, this is great stuff! If you want to experience team spirit...

And before you all start, yes I know, I'm not naive, should there be something going on, they probably wouldn't show it. But hey, at least the make an effort for transparency...what else can they do?!

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If it's hit, it's history.
If it's missed, it's mistery.

The problem was that they weren't certain if Talansky would make the time cut.....and if you send a rider (or more) back for him, then you are at risk of losing multiple riders. And that has happened many times before.....

I don't fault them in the slightest for their actions yesterday. The reality is that they need a result at this point in the Tour and they have nothing right now.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Sagan needs support, for sure. But let's not forget that this guy is pretty much going solo every day and top tenning every day. Similarly, Nibali has had a very good year overall, just no wins and he's taken a bunch of crap for that. He's one of the very few who can win a GT and also the one day races.

Sagan is a Rolleur and can do everything really well but can't outsprint sprinters and can't outclimb climbers. So he really needs some talented teammates to be foils, get in breaks, throw in some attacks so he can sit on and make the others chase. Can we imagine him with OPQ? He still doesn't have the attack saavy of a Gilbert, but I think he's getting there. He's still young. Or maybe he'll always be a very talented knucklehead.

Garmin isn't disfunctional, in my view. Dan Martin is hurt, Talansky is painfully young, Slagter can still get a stage but he's raw too. Ben King is super young, riding his first GT. Vaughters has built up a nice team of good riders, though no big stars. I think he thinks they can keep the younguns for more than a year or two and have them ride beside solid veterans as they do develop.

On the road, in these races there are strategies for each rider but it rarely plays out as expected. As Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face."

That is a great problem to have....too many ways to win, but not committing to any of them.

Sagan to me is a breath of fresh air. A true all-around threat in an age of specialization. The kid is just awesome at riding a bike and having fun at it.

He is young and is going to make mistakes. The tactics are something that his coaches should be dealing with.

I do not remember a sprinter that could take the points jersey so easily because of his climbing prowess.

I would not be surprised if the scoring system for the green jersey is changed to make it more of a pure sprinter accomplishment, just because Sagan is making it look so easy.

He is fun to watch and having met him and Kwiatkowski at Tireno this season, seems like a great kid.

This tour is crazy this year. More than any year I can remember and I have been following it for 40+ years, this is a race of attrition. I have never seen so many of the tops guns go down and out.....and early in the event to boot.

Viva Le Tour!

And as far as some of these discussions about Talansky and team support and the mention of Contador.....

Contador is one of the greatest climbers of all time and he has pretty much done it solo, being left alone at crucial moments because he has mostly been on teams that are weak.

Unlike Wiggins and Froome and the death grip of Sky, whose team was always stacked to the hilt.

But being a GC Contender takes incredible talent, especially climbing and time trailing. In addition, it helps to have a great team, but you might be able to get by with a so so team if you have enough of a talent, like Contador. Because when things get stripped down, it is man to man. Finally, it takes a lot of luck. Froome and Contador have not had much luck this TDF and Nibali is having a lot of luck. Yes, some luck is made by strong teams, but other luck just happens.

And then there is the bad luck inflicted by the cobbles. I love the cobbles in the one day classics, but do not feel that they belong in a grand tour. The cobbles are a unique ability and not necessarily on that shows the best rider (s) as a grand tour should.

I meant that he doesn't commit to sticking with one approach in a race situation. Wasn't saying that he should become more one dimensional, but that there should be no looking back once he selects his weapon of choice for the day.

Sagan stymied again......

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

One Norwegian in the race, one stage victory. Go Kristoff

He will figure it out. He still holds the Green Jersey and that is what the primary goal was. The stage wins will come as he matures and gets some strategic advice from coaches.

He reportedly threw his bike yesterday. Can't imagine the fury today. A question out to the history statistician folk - what's the largest green jersey winner's margin without winning a single stage? This year must be up there if he makes it to Paris.

I don't know the largest margin, but plenty of guys have won Green w/o stage wins....Sean Kelly and Erik Zabel are two recent examples.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Did anyone catch Greipel giving Chavanel the business?

With the jersey all but locked up now I'm sure he'll be frustrated though. I believe it's 4 second place finishes now and he'll want to win one.

Sounds like desperate excuses all around for Sagan... In a finish like today I have a hard time believing that his lack of a stage win can be pinned so heavily on team tactics/the influence of other teams, especially with Kittel and Greipel all out of the picture and his team obviously holding off longer on the lead-out... or yesterday where I think it's safe to say that he could have picked up Gallopin had he not been so concerned with having someone else do the work.

The post-race interview was painful to watch. I wish they'd get a translator and let him speak his native language. At least it seemed to me he wasn't clearly understanding the questions.

I do feel for him being the bridesmaid so many times. He's such a great talent and fun to watch. Hopefully he'll win one.

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Loud pawls save lives

Full disclosure - I'm a huge fan. We are (the Slovaks) a proud people when it comes to our athletes...probably given by the tiny size of our country. Anyway. On to the defense. I think he may have gotten used to outclassing everyone all the time which led him to make decisions that resulted in so many close seconds in this tour. Of course I'm speculating but what I'm seeing play out is that he wanted to lock up the green jersey early and also hunt for a stage win in there at the same time. Clearly, one can't expect to build a 150 point lead in 11 stages and also have the extra gear to beat the guy who finished 162nd the day before.

You should be proud, he is the closest thing we are going to see to the second coming of Eddie Merckx

He's having an amazing year. Monument + TdF stage win.

True about the points efforts taking a toll. It would still be nice for him so show some humility and say "yeah I just didn't have it in the legs" rather than get all flustered as he did in the post-race interview today.

I guess part of the problem I have with the excuse of team tactics is that it seems to be predicated on the notion that Sagan would be automatically getting these stage wins otherwise... something that may or not in fact be correct. I could be way off on this, but I feel those kinds of criticisms aren't generally thrown around to such a degree when other sprinters have close misses. I guess that all stems from the incredible success Sagan has achieved so early in his career and the resulting high expectations.

I have only seen short segments but yeah, that's exactly what I had in mind when I say teamwork trumps a collection of hotdogs who don't work together worth shit. Giant-Shimano is the kind of team I would like to ride with. It really hit home with me when Marcel talked about how you don't turn yourself inside out for some guy you don't care about. Or just for money. You do it for your mates. And know they would do it for you as well.