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Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond
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I picked up a new Tacx Neo and set a bike up on it for first impressions. Fired up TrainerRoad and started riding in ERG mode. I've noticed that there is a smoothing and lag to the power when I should be holding steady. If I'm trying to ride at 300W, It will drift down to around 285W before heading back toward 300W. Similarly, it could let me pedal up to about 315W before correcting back down. I watched the power on my Garmin read and AP over the segments was off too because of this. Anyone have any advice? By the way it does the same thing in Zwift, so its not the PC settings in the software I don't believe.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
I picked up a new Tacx Neo and set a bike up on it for first impressions. Fired up TrainerRoad and started riding in ERG mode. I've noticed that there is a smoothing and lag to the power when I should be holding steady. If I'm trying to ride at 300W, It will drift down to around 285W before heading back toward 300W. Similarly, it could let me pedal up to about 315W before correcting back down. I watched the power on my Garmin read and AP over the segments was off too because of this. Anyone have any advice? By the way it does the same thing in Zwift, so its not the PC settings in the software I don't believe.

I've found that different chainring/gear combos result in different levels of fluctuation in erg mode. I usually put my bike in the small chainring and middle gear in the cassette for a straight chainline and minimal (but not zero) fluctuation. The bigger the gear I'm in, the more fluctuation in power I get.

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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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It's a Tacx thing and ruins a nice machine.
It seems as though they leave on some of the virtual reality stuff when in erg mode which is just stupid.
Try putting your weight in at 20kg and it will respond much quicker.

Don't know why they just cannot give it instant response, the hardware is capable of if and it makes testing in erg mode useless.
If you are trying to do a step test and have it set to 330w it will go up to 370w before it settles down, and that is enough to totally kill your legs if you are at your threshold.
Tacx machines are nice hardware, but the firmware is crap.

I know it is capable of doing it right because it has done in the past depending on update.
Trouble is buyers are beta testers and Tacx don't listen to complaints.

It's a pretty machine that is quiet and is fun riding around in virtual mode, but for serious training or testing it is whack.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm... my experience is pretty different from yours. Here's the power curve (completely unsmoothed) from my last trainer workout in Zwift on the Tacx Neo. When jumping from one power zone to the next, it will take a couple of seconds to settle down, but once in a zone I find it's only wavering by 4-5W unless I do something like get out of the saddle or drastically chance cadence. Most of the big spikes in the middle of the long sets are because I got out of the saddle to give my arse a break.




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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [jkatsoudas] [ In reply to ]
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What weight have you entered?
Can you please try to enter 95kg and see how it responds?
What firmware version?
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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I used my actual weight, 72kgs. Just to be clear, are you suggesting I change my weight in TrainerRoad/Zwift?

Tacx Neo is running the most up to date firmware and TrainerRoad/Zwift are up to date as well.
Last edited by: turdburgler: Oct 12, 17 4:01
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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I know why a similar problem occurs on Wahoo Kickrs so while I haven't ridden a Tacx I can take a punt at the answer.

The issue is related to where the trainer measures power relative to the fly wheel and how software tries to correct for this. At least on the wahoo power is measured post-fly wheel (I'm not sure that's the technical way to describe it) which creates a substantial offset between your power and the measured power when accelerating and deceleration. This effect is partially corrected for in the software of the trainer but that causes a knock-on effect when using software to control the trainer. Basically you don't want your trainer to actually hit the target power and instead the trainer guesses the power it needs to hit. [This is based on fly wheel acceleration calculation so rider weight will come in as previous posters have noted.] For a more complete discussion see: https://support.zwift.com/...lywheel-Compensation.

I was really disappointed when I first tried a kickr on zwift as the effect is very substantial. One way around this issue is to use an actually power meter (rather than the trainers power meter) as an input into the computer, but it raises the question of why they bother putting an expensive power meter in the trainers to begin with.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [jkatsoudas] [ In reply to ]
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jkatsoudas seems to be on the right track. So far going in to the small chain ring and using smaller gears appears to help. The affect is still there, just lest pronounced. I am seeing a +- 10W variation at this point, maybe a bit more. Still frustrating. Any other ideas are welcome.

I tried the suggestion about changing weight and I didn't notice any difference.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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The next question is - are you using the power from the Neo or are you controlling the Neo with a power meter via powermatch? If the latter, you will see a much greater degree of fluctuation (i.e. reality).

People always seem to think that ERG mode should look like the ERG mode shown by a Kickr. That's not true. As per DC Rainmaker's comments on that, the Kickr is reporting the power it is being told to hold, not the actual power being produced, hence why it looks so smooth. On power match mode the trainer is responding to the power you are actually delivering to the pedals, as measured by your power meter. No one pedals smoothly and +/- 15 watts is certainly within the realms of a normal power fluctuation.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
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So far I've only used power from the Neo. My powermeters that I trust are in wheel hubs. I have a Garmin Vector 2 power meter pedal set, but I don't use it because I don't trust them. They are decent up until about 320W. Above that and they start really over-reporting so I'd rather not use them to PowerMatch.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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I decided to validate my theory in today's Zwift workout. After the initial warm-up intervals, there were four 5-minute intervals. I did three of these in the 34/23 and one of them in the 50/11. Can you tell which one was in the big chainring? Besides being FAR "lumpier" the 50/11 was also noisier and more vibration. In short, there's no reason I can think of to be in the large chainring when in Erg mode on the Neo.



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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [jkatsoudas] [ In reply to ]
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jkatsoudas wrote:
I decided to validate my theory in today's Zwift workout. After the initial warm-up intervals, there were four 5-minute intervals. I did three of these in the 34/23 and one of them in the 50/11. Can you tell which one was in the big chainring? Besides being FAR "lumpier" the 50/11 was also noisier and more vibration. In short, there's no reason I can think of to be in the large chainring when in Erg mode on the Neo.
I bought a Tacx Flow Smart last month. This weekend was the first real time on it. Really a nogo. I had bought into the marketing that in ERG mode it would follow TrainerRoad workouts with reasonably fidelity. But instead, it was all over the damned map. I tried to use my Quarq cranks to be the source of the power info and then TrainerRoad would be able to adjust the Tacx to meet the power #'s coming from the crank. Total fail. The amount of resistance in ERG mode varied hugely. It would not settle down for nothing. It was a complete fail.

So then I tried to do it again w/o the added complexity of the crank. I tried to get TrainerRoad to use the trainer's #'s to set power. That was another fail. TrainerRoad refused to calibrate the Tacx. So then I tried to use the Tacx Android app to run the trainer. The app refused to control it. The app could see it, but no control. Then I tried to get my Wahoo Elmnt to control the Tacx. That didn't work either.

The only thing that worked was using TrainerRoad to put the Tacx Flow Smart into Resistance mode like a dumb $100 trainer. What a complete waste of money. And, sadly, since I waited a month to actually try the darn thing, I probably can't send it back. No more smart trainers for me.

"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
jkatsoudas wrote:
I decided to validate my theory in today's Zwift workout. After the initial warm-up intervals, there were four 5-minute intervals. I did three of these in the 34/23 and one of them in the 50/11. Can you tell which one was in the big chainring? Besides being FAR "lumpier" the 50/11 was also noisier and more vibration. In short, there's no reason I can think of to be in the large chainring when in Erg mode on the Neo.

I bought a Tacx Flow Smart last month. This weekend was the first real time on it. Really a nogo. I had bought into the marketing that in ERG mode it would follow TrainerRoad workouts with reasonably fidelity. But instead, it was all over the damned map. I tried to use my Quarq cranks to be the source of the power info and then TrainerRoad would be able to adjust the Tacx to meet the power #'s coming from the crank. Total fail. The amount of resistance in ERG mode varied hugely. It would not settle down for nothing. It was a complete fail.

So then I tried to do it again w/o the added complexity of the crank. I tried to get TrainerRoad to use the trainer's #'s to set power. That was another fail. TrainerRoad refused to calibrate the Tacx. So then I tried to use the Tacx Android app to run the trainer. The app refused to control it. The app could see it, but no control. Then I tried to get my Wahoo Elmnt to control the Tacx. That didn't work either.

The only thing that worked was using TrainerRoad to put the Tacx Flow Smart into Resistance mode like a dumb $100 trainer. What a complete waste of money. And, sadly, since I waited a month to actually try the darn thing, I probably can't send it back. No more smart trainers for me.

You're giving up based on one ride??

It's a great piece of equipment... have some patience to get it set up correctly.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
jkatsoudas wrote:
I decided to validate my theory in today's Zwift workout. After the initial warm-up intervals, there were four 5-minute intervals. I did three of these in the 34/23 and one of them in the 50/11. Can you tell which one was in the big chainring? Besides being FAR "lumpier" the 50/11 was also noisier and more vibration. In short, there's no reason I can think of to be in the large chainring when in Erg mode on the Neo.

I bought a Tacx Flow Smart last month. This weekend was the first real time on it. Really a nogo. I had bought into the marketing that in ERG mode it would follow TrainerRoad workouts with reasonably fidelity. But instead, it was all over the damned map. I tried to use my Quarq cranks to be the source of the power info and then TrainerRoad would be able to adjust the Tacx to meet the power #'s coming from the crank. Total fail. The amount of resistance in ERG mode varied hugely. It would not settle down for nothing. It was a complete fail.

So then I tried to do it again w/o the added complexity of the crank. I tried to get TrainerRoad to use the trainer's #'s to set power. That was another fail. TrainerRoad refused to calibrate the Tacx. So then I tried to use the Tacx Android app to run the trainer. The app refused to control it. The app could see it, but no control. Then I tried to get my Wahoo Elmnt to control the Tacx. That didn't work either.

The only thing that worked was using TrainerRoad to put the Tacx Flow Smart into Resistance mode like a dumb $100 trainer. What a complete waste of money. And, sadly, since I waited a month to actually try the darn thing, I probably can't send it back. No more smart trainers for me.

Given the pain and suffering you had to unsuccessfully pair your devices, I happily take that 'piece of crap' off your hands by paying for shipping and a case of beer.

Seriously, you shouldn't really have to deal with that POS anymore.

It would be better to hand it off to somebody who you wish all the pain and suffering you can think of.




Pompous Baloney.

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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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I had a genius for 3 years and I simply leave it in the cupboard now.
I have given up on trying to sort it out.
Maybe I could try a new computer but the stupid thing won't let me export the licence and a friend has exactly the same problem so I just don't give a flying anymore.
I wasted my money and I moved on.

Tacx is a never purchase or recommend ever again company for me now.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of confusion here...but, a couple of quick thoughts:

A) Tacx + TrainerRoad should be near-instant. You actually don't want it truely instant, because then it's like hitting a brick wall.
B) If it's not, do you have PowerMatch on? As others indicated, that can introduce delay, potentially a lot of it. I would not recommend PowerMatch for the Neo in general. Everything you noted sounds like you have it on.
C) Failing all that, try reaching out to TR support. Seriously, they're good eggs and can actually pull the log files from your specific ride and tell you exactly what happens. It's like the airplane black box...but for trainer rides.
D) RE: Kickr power faking data: That's true, but since then they've introduced an option on the Wahoo app that you can turn that off on your KICKR. Or you can look at fake data. On the bright side, the fake power data does look pretty.
E) As others have jokingly implied, the Tacx Neo is one of the best (if not the best ) trainers out there. So if something is amiss, I'd spend a few minutes to figure out if it's just an odd app issue (almost always is).

That's all!


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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Tacx NEO and I love it to bits. I've had it for about 1 year and ridden about 10,000km on it.

I can't see how much fluctuations are you getting from your intervals on the map but small fluctuations are normal. I see wattage fluctuation on screen (zwift / trainerroad) but I never feel the fluctuation affect my effort/cadence. Have you tried to update the Neo?

Tacx is very good with responding to emails. You might want to email them vs ST.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [CaptainSnail] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed that Tacx is pretty good at responding to inquiries. I just got my Flux the other day (so far I love it, very quiet, good ride), along with the upgrade smart kit. I had a problem getting their software set-up (which is fine I did my rides on Zwift instead) since it wouldn't accept my license code, I submitted the request saturday night and they got back to me within 24hrs (I was misreading lower case l's for 1's because of their font, so I was able to get that sorted).

Not sure whether I'll bother with trainerroad or just stick to Zwift/Tacx software. But I've ridden the old fortius extensively and now the Flux (also have had a set of their rollers for years), and have been very impressed with their product.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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TrainerRoad has a great plans and does help u improve :)

If you’re a triathlete, their plans are quite easy to follow. Admittingly it’s a one size fit all solution but serves as a good starting point

Zwift doesn’t have any plans for triathletes :/
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
RangerGress wrote:


I bought a Tacx Flow Smart last month. This weekend was the first real time on it. Really a nogo. I had bought into the marketing that in ERG mode it would follow TrainerRoad workouts with reasonably fidelity. But instead, it was all over the damned map. I tried to use my Quarq cranks to be the source of the power info and then TrainerRoad would be able to adjust the Tacx to meet the power #'s coming from the crank. Total fail. The amount of resistance in ERG mode varied hugely. It would not settle down for nothing. It was a complete fail.

So then I tried to do it again w/o the added complexity of the crank. I tried to get TrainerRoad to use the trainer's #'s to set power. That was another fail. TrainerRoad refused to calibrate the Tacx. So then I tried to use the Tacx Android app to run the trainer. The app refused to control it. The app could see it, but no control. Then I tried to get my Wahoo Elmnt to control the Tacx. That didn't work either.

The only thing that worked was using TrainerRoad to put the Tacx Flow Smart into Resistance mode like a dumb $100 trainer. What a complete waste of money. And, sadly, since I waited a month to actually try the darn thing, I probably can't send it back. No more smart trainers for me.


You're giving up based on one ride??

It's a great piece of equipment... have some patience to get it set up correctly.

2 rides. In the 2nd ride I spent 45min juggling variables and seeing how I could get the behavior to change. I tried 3 devices, a notebook, an Android phone, and a Wahoo Elmnt. I tried TrainerRoad, and the Tacx Android app, I tried BT and ANT+. What worked was erratic. Often I didn't even get that.

I'm an engineer and a computer geek. I figure that if it's this hard to get something to do what it's supposed to, then it's not ready for prime time.

Then the rear wheel--> adjuster assembly came apart. I was only barely "in the green" for "tension" per the Tacx app and the adjuster screw unthreaded. Lousy design.

"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
Last edited by: RangerGress: Oct 23, 17 6:14
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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I can only speak for the NEO. Maybe your model just sucks :) Good luck!!
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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dcrainmaker, regarding point (D), where do I find the option to turn only have the target watts displayed in Erg mode? I can't seem to find it in the Wahoo app.
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [CaptainSnail] [ In reply to ]
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The Tacx Software has some programs for building power (you can also build your own workouts in either slope or erg mode if you want to customize). I mainly self-coach, but also have access to cycling coaches who also understand how it relates to multisport racing, so I'm less interested in the off the shelf pre-canned trianing programs. Most of the people I know using TR are either ones who really wanted those programs, or those who's coaches force them to use it, because that is how they work with their athletes...

In terms of the issues with the flow, in erg mode, it's never going to be as accurate with a wheel on model. It will be sensitive to tire pressure, and calibration is super important with wheel on trainers...
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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
I'm an engineer and a computer geek. I figure that if it's this hard to get something to do what it's supposed to, then it's not ready for prime time.

I've never understood why folks will spend countless hours frustrating themselves randomly trying things and posting on forums, when they could pick up the phone and talk to the folks that actually know the product and have the issue diagnosed and sorted out in a few minutes. Since you're an engineer, doesn't it seem logical that if there are that many people that love it and you're having such a bad experience, perhaps there's just something wrong with your particular unit?

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Re: Tacx Neo Erg Mode Slow to Respond [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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It's normal to see fluctuations in ERG mode. The Tacx NEO is probably one of the best in keeping that to the minimum. How was your average for each interval in comparison to your target?

One thing that can effect your power is your cadence and left/right balance. Just because you are in erg mode, you can't just forget about your form. The trainer will have to respond to changes in cadence and leg balance and some trainer do this better than others. The NEO does this better than any other trainer I've tested.


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