No, you get 22 distinct gears. You don't need to take my word for it. Plug the numbers into any gear calculator. Like any 11-speed system, you can cross-chain to your heart's content.

I don't understand your issue with it. Not a game changer? So what? Sounds like the idea was to give people more reason to go with their groupset, knowing they wouldn't have to go buy some third party power-solution. I'm not going to buy it (I'm happy with my Pioneer) but a whole lot of people are.

Ok. So how about this - with the same range, syncro shifting will give you 3 more gears than a 1x11 system. Which now sounds pretty sweet. It seems like we should be able to use an XD driver and have a couple gears cantilevered over the spokes like the XT 11-speed cassette, I can have my dream 1x13 setup with 46 in front and 10-36 in back.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I don't understand how you came up with this. There are 22 distinct gears. Syncro shifting could choose any of them. You don't get 3 more gears, you get 11 more gears.

Yes the blurb does say something about how "Full Synchro" can minimize cross chaining but it also says it works to maintain cadence. If maintaining cadence means cross-chaining, then that's a good thing.

If it's programmable, I'd take the program that maintains cadence as closely as possible and screw the goal of avoiding cross-chaining. Chains are cheap. I replace mine every season anyway. If I'm blowing all the money on electronic shifting, I'm not going to sweat that cost.

Maybe I mis understood you. I thought you were calling the power meter a category killer -- as in, would rapidly take majority market share in the power meter market. That's what I was disputing.

Does the etap lose out much Aero wise? Wondered if the blip box and larger mechanical made much difference.

Ah, I see. You're right in that that was definitely said, but that was hiro11 who said, it. My reply got mixed in.

I certainly agree that it's not a category killer.

Yes. I can hide my A junction, but the blip box makes Etap a non-starter for me.

I'm sure it will take time to sort out all the details, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the 3 new Junction A options. There should be two that make it easy to hide the box on TT bikes.

I didn't see anyone mention the reference on the Shimano DA TT and Tri Shifter page: "Hydro ST has same ergonomics as ST-R9160" Is this a misprint or could it be they are actually offering a hydro TT brake/shifter combo? And if they do offer this will it work for the Cervelo Magura users?

The new extension shifters look like they will require reworking existing Tri extension set ups to deal with the loss of shifter length. Though these no length added shifters might help those dealing with UCI measurement limits.

Edit: Found more details here: Shimano DA9100 Looks like there will be hydro TT/Tri shifter/brake units! Still not sure what they will have for buttons since the promo photos don't show details. The description indicates only one button per shifter, but the way it is phrased is off.

It also looks like there really are just two new Junction A options to go with the existing two options - an internal or bar Junction with 2 ports and an external with 3 ports. There is also a 2 port extension junction (B?) option and they are offering E-Tube Y-cables. The Y-cables will really help with aerobar wiring options. I've used Junction B's and 150mm E-Tube wires to avoid using a 5-Port Junction A on my bars. The Y-Cables will be cleaner:)

Except with di2 syncro you will get a greater range than etap 1x can provide

The new brake levers look more aero. I like it!

They should just skip eTap 1x11 and go straight to 1x12. The hitch with 1x12 is that the 12th gear has to be fairly large (somewhere around 50) in order to work with a standard SRAM/Shimano free hub body so you're going to need a BIG front ring and something like a 12 or 14 as your smallest cog to get reasonable spacing. That's ok though. Friction Facts has done testing (not sure if they ever released it) and for the same gear ratio big/big is more efficient than small/small. Plus SRAM's new 12 speed chain might have a bit less friction than say a DA 11 speed chain. My only real concern is that with something like a 50 in the back aero drag of the cassette might be a real concern.

But you're giving up all that aeroness by slapping disc brakes on your bike ;)

If these would work with magura's that would be a nice touch, or even a Shimano rim brake. But unless I'm missing something, this is just for TT disc bikes? Seems like a very niche market.

Whaaaaaat? Why would they do that? I just assumed they were for rim brakes, lol.

If they are that would be great, but the official Shimano launch info says:

ST-R9180, Di2 TT/Triathlon Hydraulic Disc Brake Dual Control Lever (2x11-speed)

Plus I haven't seen any hydro rim brakes from Shimano yet.

Thank you jpwiki. I would think most people that have gotten to demo the XTR Syncro Shift agree it's pretty cool. I think it makes more sense on a mountain bike where you drop down to one shifter only. It still makes some sense on a TT or road bike, but I would want to keep both shifters. I haven't had a front shifter on a mountain bike in nearly 10 years.

Long story short, Syncro Shift is keeping you in your most efficient gear combo at all times. I used my own setup as an example below. 170mm cranks, rear tire that measures closer to 28mm than 25mm, 52/38 rings and 11-28 SRAM cassette. Gear inches make way more sense to me when discussing gearing.


We know staying in that big ring makes the most amount of sense for the first/largest (gear inches) ~8 cogs. Plus the shift from 52/19 to 52/22 is the biggest jump on the cassette. IDEALLY (I hope Shimano is reading this) with Syncro Shift, instead of that inefficient cross chaining and large 15.8% gearing jump, both derailleurs would go to the 38/15 combo (instead of 52/22) and then gradually work up the cassette until getting to the 38/28 for 15 total gear combinations. I don't think we can say for sure yet if Syncro Shift will be 14 or 15. No matter what, it's still a great range with fairly tight shifts. Personally, I just want to shift easier or harder and don't care about the FD as long as it's working properly. The system is designed to keep it in the big ring as long as possible until it becomes the less efficient option. I really, really hope they will open up the programming enough to allow for what I described above.

Yes, there are 22 gears, but with so much overlap in the gearing range, it's really only 15 distinctly different gears with my personal combo above. Climb a hill that's steep enough to get into your lowest gear combo. Descend the other side and get to your highest gear combo. I promise it didn't take 21 shifts to get there.

Still 15 distinctly different gear combos if I use my 11-25 cassette.


Sticking to the same idea of when to shift out of the big ring, it looks like 14 usable gear combos (but more range) with an 11-32 cassette.

  

repost but...

this is the new top-of-the-line crank from Shimano, right?

Why do Shimano spiders/chainrings look like they've been wrecked and then bent back by hand to almost fit together again?

After reading your post, I am changing my mind. I was thinking that sequential would go all the way to big/big before dropping down to the small chainring, but the way you laid it out, having 15 usable gears with great range and only needing to shift harder/easier sounds fantastic.

I still think I can live with a big range and big jumps on a 1x setup, but if price is not a factor, the sequential shifting you describe would be awesome.

The only downside is that one "big" shift when changing gears, but I think the range + tight spacing makes up for it.

I may be first person on Slowtwitch to ever be wrong.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Funny as always KJ!

You're not wrong. It's just a different way of looking at it. FWIW, I'm a huge fan of 1x. For cx, commuter and mt bike I can't imagine anything else. I prefer the range and smaller jumps of 2x for gravel (cx with lots of extra weight and steep unpaved climbs) and tri (power management) though. It's fun having choices.

Because they are made by hand. Seriously.

Depending on which media launch event those photos were taken at, and of which bike (that looks like the background at the Caen, France event) of the blue Pinnerelo bike, then it was literally just models/prototypes. You couldn't shift that specific bike (whereas other bikes were more functional). In fact, if you look at the photographs in my post from outside, you'll notice that the front left shifter is falling off. That's because some @#$#@ dude from another outlet reached in and screwed with things while I was taking photographs even after the Shimano guys told him not to try and shift that specific bike. Sigh.

Other bikes were functional though, but photographed less (since they weren't as pretty I suppose). It's one of the other ones most people were doing test rides on.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

I see the same weird fitment/contour mismatches even in the official product photos from Shimano (see the Ultegra crank below).

I don't have high-end Shimano stuff (I'm rockin' old Tiagra and FSA on my bikes), but are you telling me this is not how Shimano 4-arm spiders look in real life?

Shame on Shimano for not respecting TrainingPeaks' trademarks.

totally agree

there is no real reason to upgrade whether u have mechanical or di2...

waiting to get sram WIRELESS TT group set :D

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev