That aerobar extension shifter has an interesting shape and looks like it would be lighter than the 9070. From what I'm reading here, there's not FD control on the extensions, is that correct?

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Toro Performance

Crank definitely looks interesting but being 1st generation it is tough to get fully on aboard. I could see this being the death of SRM in the long run though.

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The death of SRM has already been assured.

Shortest crank length is still going to be 165mm. Bummer. Was really hoping for shorter options.

Per Shimano:

Dura-Ace Crankset:
- Crank arm lengths: 165, 167.5, 170, 172.5, 175, 177.5, 180mm

Dura-Ace Power Meter Crankset:
- Crank arm lengths:
- 170, 172.5, 175mm (w/chainrings)
- 165, 167.5, 170, 172.5, 175, 177.5, 180mm (w/o chainrings)

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Looks interesting.

But, "electronical" ?!

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Also a little disappointed. At least wanted to see a 160 option. Would like to see them ditch the .5 sizes if it is a skew issue. Take out 167.5 and 177.5 and add 160mm and 155mm.

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There's a review/release on bike review. For the life of me I can't figure out if it is semi wireless or not. It seems like it might be, but the wording is super vague. It might only be referring to the connectivity to the app?

Edit:

Oh nevermind found a better write up here:

http://cyclingtips.com/news/shimano-dura-ace-di2-9150-groupset-specs-weight-price/

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Isn't there a bike forum you guys could discuss this on

Syncro shifting is the most expensive, complex, and poorly designed attempt at 1x ever concocted.

With a 53/39 11-28 setup (11-speed), you get 14 distinct gears. With 10 speed it was only 13.

I would MUCH rather have a 1x12 setup than syncro shifting.

The other thing that kills me is the battery and junction boxes. I have Ultegra Di2 on my road bike and it's crazy that I need 4 wires and 2 junction boxes, and a heavy-ass battery (that admittedly lasts forever) to control 1 derailleur.

What this launch really convinces me of is how much I want eTap - 1x11 of course.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

This has some good stuff and some lack of additions that will make Sram very happy. No wireless shifting with no real groupsets on the market till next spring will keep Sram very happy for the next few years. As a current DI2 user i am very interested in a more positive click feel, don't really care about syncro shifting but to try it out i need the new battery and A junction. In a year when it comes time to replace current parts i am not sure if i will stay with DI2 or go to Sram wireless. If the price can stay reasonable then DI2 remains the clear winner, but i am guessing they keep the prices high. I wonder if they bring this new technology to ultegra?

The TT setup looks nice and makes things easier. I am still not sure their new PM will be a heavy hitter as i am sure it will be priced at a premium level (minimum 1500). I would bet SRM does another price reduction this fall to get their current DA offering in line with Shimano. It does look very clean but with no testing who knows how it will perform.

I like the reduced lever throw for mechanical, if it is dramatic enough it might be enough to get me off Sram mechanical for my training bike. I don't particularly enjoy training on Double tap and road racing on DI2 as the memory system is completely different, but i have stayed with doubletap mechanical due to the overly long level throw on current shimano shifters.

I don't know, this looks to be a big swing and miss. I'm guessing everyone at SRAM has a smile on their faces today.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

DC Rainmaker has a blog post today with more in-depth first look at it: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...ace-power-meter.html

I view the new TT setup completely differently, and this has basically nixed any thoughts I had about switching from my current Campag EPS setup to Di2. The last thing I want in a race when I want to power up a short climb in my big ring but my drivetrain decides to shift the FD for me (as I no longer have control) and then have to shift again on the flat or downhill. Both opportunities for missed shifts and time losses.

You aren't being forced to use synchro shift you know. The functions of the shifters are completely configurable.

So in other words the new version of the d-fly unit allows wireless updating of firmware and programming shift settings via Bluetooth instead of via computer. Really underwhelming.

From http://cyclingtips.com/...-specs-weight-price/

"By making smart use of its new Synchro Shift technology (or, more accurately, forcing its use), Shimano has been able to greatly simplify its shifting setup. Riders choosing to use this new generation of Di2 will have to give up manual control of front shifting, but in exchange will gain lower weights, simpler operation and improved aerodynamics."

They contradict themselves in the article then:

"Shimano is so confident in its Synchro Shift technology that it’s likely to be pre-programmed on most new bikes. And of course, it can be customized or just turned off through the free app."
My strong strong belief is that they will allow you to disable or program the functionality for manual shifting. But unclear to me from this article.

Lots of MTB tech making its way over the road in this group: Shadow Plus, flat mount, two piece rotors, synch shifting etc. Also, to me it's shocking that Shimano has taken this long to offer an integrated power option. If it works well, this is likely a category killer.

This may be possible for the road groups where the road shifters still have two buttons. The new TT shifters are single buttons for the bar ends and on the brake levers.

How is the power meter any more integrated than a Quarq? They both work by ANT+ and both require a third party head unit to work

Syncro shift will be optional and completely configurable by the user.

Shimano is almost never about the "big swing". Not in their groupsets, anyway. They're more about the incremental, tested-and-refined-to-death changes.

Integrated with their groupset.

I still don't get it. Integrated with their crank? Quarq Elsa RS integrates with Shimano rings just fine. Bundled with their groupset? Not really a game changer or a death knell for other power meters makers.

Anyways, my guess is, like every other first gen power meter manufacturer, the first gen product will be delayed for quarter after quarter and it will have accuracy and stability issues from the beginning. Even Shimano isn't immune to gaffes in the first gen - see, o.g. Di2.

No, you get 22 distinct gears. You don't need to take my word for it. Plug the numbers into any gear calculator. Like any 11-speed system, you can cross-chain to your heart's content.

I don't understand your issue with it. Not a game changer? So what? Sounds like the idea was to give people more reason to go with their groupset, knowing they wouldn't have to go buy some third party power-solution. I'm not going to buy it (I'm happy with my Pioneer) but a whole lot of people are.

Ok. So how about this - with the same range, syncro shifting will give you 3 more gears than a 1x11 system. Which now sounds pretty sweet. It seems like we should be able to use an XD driver and have a couple gears cantilevered over the spokes like the XT 11-speed cassette, I can have my dream 1x13 setup with 46 in front and 10-36 in back.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I don't understand how you came up with this. There are 22 distinct gears. Syncro shifting could choose any of them. You don't get 3 more gears, you get 11 more gears.

Yes the blurb does say something about how "Full Synchro" can minimize cross chaining but it also says it works to maintain cadence. If maintaining cadence means cross-chaining, then that's a good thing.

If it's programmable, I'd take the program that maintains cadence as closely as possible and screw the goal of avoiding cross-chaining. Chains are cheap. I replace mine every season anyway. If I'm blowing all the money on electronic shifting, I'm not going to sweat that cost.

Maybe I mis understood you. I thought you were calling the power meter a category killer -- as in, would rapidly take majority market share in the power meter market. That's what I was disputing.

Does the etap lose out much Aero wise? Wondered if the blip box and larger mechanical made much difference.

Ah, I see. You're right in that that was definitely said, but that was hiro11 who said, it. My reply got mixed in.

I certainly agree that it's not a category killer.

Yes. I can hide my A junction, but the blip box makes Etap a non-starter for me.

I'm sure it will take time to sort out all the details, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the 3 new Junction A options. There should be two that make it easy to hide the box on TT bikes.

I didn't see anyone mention the reference on the Shimano DA TT and Tri Shifter page: "Hydro ST has same ergonomics as ST-R9160" Is this a misprint or could it be they are actually offering a hydro TT brake/shifter combo? And if they do offer this will it work for the Cervelo Magura users?

The new extension shifters look like they will require reworking existing Tri extension set ups to deal with the loss of shifter length. Though these no length added shifters might help those dealing with UCI measurement limits.

Edit: Found more details here: Shimano DA9100 Looks like there will be hydro TT/Tri shifter/brake units! Still not sure what they will have for buttons since the promo photos don't show details. The description indicates only one button per shifter, but the way it is phrased is off.

It also looks like there really are just two new Junction A options to go with the existing two options - an internal or bar Junction with 2 ports and an external with 3 ports. There is also a 2 port extension junction (B?) option and they are offering E-Tube Y-cables. The Y-cables will really help with aerobar wiring options. I've used Junction B's and 150mm E-Tube wires to avoid using a 5-Port Junction A on my bars. The Y-Cables will be cleaner:)

Except with di2 syncro you will get a greater range than etap 1x can provide

The new brake levers look more aero. I like it!

They should just skip eTap 1x11 and go straight to 1x12. The hitch with 1x12 is that the 12th gear has to be fairly large (somewhere around 50) in order to work with a standard SRAM/Shimano free hub body so you're going to need a BIG front ring and something like a 12 or 14 as your smallest cog to get reasonable spacing. That's ok though. Friction Facts has done testing (not sure if they ever released it) and for the same gear ratio big/big is more efficient than small/small. Plus SRAM's new 12 speed chain might have a bit less friction than say a DA 11 speed chain. My only real concern is that with something like a 50 in the back aero drag of the cassette might be a real concern.

But you're giving up all that aeroness by slapping disc brakes on your bike ;)

If these would work with magura's that would be a nice touch, or even a Shimano rim brake. But unless I'm missing something, this is just for TT disc bikes? Seems like a very niche market.

Whaaaaaat? Why would they do that? I just assumed they were for rim brakes, lol.

If they are that would be great, but the official Shimano launch info says:

ST-R9180, Di2 TT/Triathlon Hydraulic Disc Brake Dual Control Lever (2x11-speed)

Plus I haven't seen any hydro rim brakes from Shimano yet.

Thank you jpwiki. I would think most people that have gotten to demo the XTR Syncro Shift agree it's pretty cool. I think it makes more sense on a mountain bike where you drop down to one shifter only. It still makes some sense on a TT or road bike, but I would want to keep both shifters. I haven't had a front shifter on a mountain bike in nearly 10 years.

Long story short, Syncro Shift is keeping you in your most efficient gear combo at all times. I used my own setup as an example below. 170mm cranks, rear tire that measures closer to 28mm than 25mm, 52/38 rings and 11-28 SRAM cassette. Gear inches make way more sense to me when discussing gearing.


We know staying in that big ring makes the most amount of sense for the first/largest (gear inches) ~8 cogs. Plus the shift from 52/19 to 52/22 is the biggest jump on the cassette. IDEALLY (I hope Shimano is reading this) with Syncro Shift, instead of that inefficient cross chaining and large 15.8% gearing jump, both derailleurs would go to the 38/15 combo (instead of 52/22) and then gradually work up the cassette until getting to the 38/28 for 15 total gear combinations. I don't think we can say for sure yet if Syncro Shift will be 14 or 15. No matter what, it's still a great range with fairly tight shifts. Personally, I just want to shift easier or harder and don't care about the FD as long as it's working properly. The system is designed to keep it in the big ring as long as possible until it becomes the less efficient option. I really, really hope they will open up the programming enough to allow for what I described above.

Yes, there are 22 gears, but with so much overlap in the gearing range, it's really only 15 distinctly different gears with my personal combo above. Climb a hill that's steep enough to get into your lowest gear combo. Descend the other side and get to your highest gear combo. I promise it didn't take 21 shifts to get there.

Still 15 distinctly different gear combos if I use my 11-25 cassette.


Sticking to the same idea of when to shift out of the big ring, it looks like 14 usable gear combos (but more range) with an 11-32 cassette.

  

repost but...

this is the new top-of-the-line crank from Shimano, right?

Why do Shimano spiders/chainrings look like they've been wrecked and then bent back by hand to almost fit together again?

After reading your post, I am changing my mind. I was thinking that sequential would go all the way to big/big before dropping down to the small chainring, but the way you laid it out, having 15 usable gears with great range and only needing to shift harder/easier sounds fantastic.

I still think I can live with a big range and big jumps on a 1x setup, but if price is not a factor, the sequential shifting you describe would be awesome.

The only downside is that one "big" shift when changing gears, but I think the range + tight spacing makes up for it.

I may be first person on Slowtwitch to ever be wrong.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Funny as always KJ!

You're not wrong. It's just a different way of looking at it. FWIW, I'm a huge fan of 1x. For cx, commuter and mt bike I can't imagine anything else. I prefer the range and smaller jumps of 2x for gravel (cx with lots of extra weight and steep unpaved climbs) and tri (power management) though. It's fun having choices.

Because they are made by hand. Seriously.

Depending on which media launch event those photos were taken at, and of which bike (that looks like the background at the Caen, France event) of the blue Pinnerelo bike, then it was literally just models/prototypes. You couldn't shift that specific bike (whereas other bikes were more functional). In fact, if you look at the photographs in my post from outside, you'll notice that the front left shifter is falling off. That's because some @#$#@ dude from another outlet reached in and screwed with things while I was taking photographs even after the Shimano guys told him not to try and shift that specific bike. Sigh.

Other bikes were functional though, but photographed less (since they weren't as pretty I suppose). It's one of the other ones most people were doing test rides on.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

I see the same weird fitment/contour mismatches even in the official product photos from Shimano (see the Ultegra crank below).

I don't have high-end Shimano stuff (I'm rockin' old Tiagra and FSA on my bikes), but are you telling me this is not how Shimano 4-arm spiders look in real life?

Shame on Shimano for not respecting TrainingPeaks' trademarks.

totally agree

there is no real reason to upgrade whether u have mechanical or di2...

waiting to get sram WIRELESS TT group set :D

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

It is possibly more Aero - bringing the rear inwards.

Prefer the wireless idea as I have a plasma 3 with mechanical routing which rules out di2. However I do worry the size of the mechs with the batteries and the blip box will make the etape less Aero.

They don't make a head unit or training software - it just broadcasts power like any other power meter. So basically, they just gave TrainingPeaks free PR/promotion.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

It'd be much better free PR/promotion if they put the little "R" symbol and made the terms hyperlinks to TrainingPeaks. That would have been a nice courtesy.

That's why it's called "free PR"...they didn't get the links. ;)

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Except that you have to not only already be aware that those terms are trademarked, you would have to know to whom the trademarks belong. Sans the legally-required acknowledgement, the webpage makes it appear that Shimano deserves credit for the terms .

Of course, Shimano isn't the only one to plays such games. For example, look at how Strava skirts the issue by just inventing new terms for things to avoid acknowledging TP's trademarks, thus falsely claiming credit for certain ideas and adding to the confusion.

More than a courtesy: a legal requirement.

If everyone had courtesy we wouldn't need legal requirements. :)

Merely mentioning a term doesn't mean you have to put the trademark symbol on it, you know that. There's zero legal requirement for any company (even the holder) to display the symbol. It is considered good legal practice for a holder to display it at least once per document/page, but legally not actually required to display it in every instance.

But you're confusing what Strava does with what Shimano is doing. Strava is displaying a metric and calling it X (as opposed to a TrainingPeaks branded metric). I agree that if those metrics exactly match, then that's shades of grey.

But Shimano isn't displaying anything. They don't have any software that displays anything, nor even any hardware that displays anything. They're merely mentioning that you could use such metrics, but you'd still need to go out and buy some device/platform/whatever that displays those. Of which they make none (you do however).

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

That's factually incorrect. It's not a legal requirement for any 3rd party to display any variant of the symbol.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

That depends on whether or not you want to be sued for trademark infringement or dilution.

You forgot to mention your legal expertise in your signature.

They are his (trainingpeaks?) terms, he can sue if he wants.

Things I did not expect to see today: Ray and Dr. Coggan duking it out over the (R) symbol...

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2014 P3 DI2 - RT6, CXR80, Power2Max S, 820, Fenix 3 HR. (gone)

Have been contemplating buying WKO for awhile, now not so much.

In practical terms, surely it depends if he can find a lawyer who'd take that case...

IDK, it just seems weird to make vague legal threats on the internet.

TrainingPeaks - of which I am not, and never have been, a part - owns the trademarks. It would therefore be up to them to defend them (I know that they have done so in the past).

You are misinterpreting my comments. I don't own the trademarks, and therefore have no standing to sue. My point to Ray was simply that properly acknowledging someone else's trademark reduces the chances that you will be sued.

Odd to see someone so accomplished so thin-skinned.

Love seeing the rare, but delicious DCrainmaker smackdown.

Extra special seeing it served to someone so obnoxiously self-obsessed.

Unrelated: I invited the question mark.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

As a scientist, my stock-in-trade is ideas. Misattribution and/or misappropriation of intellectual property rights therefore bugs me just as much as miscitation of the literature. Call it my pet peeve if you like.

LOL!

You did not properly site Cyanide and Happiness for this...

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